balance shaft removal

[TurboGalant]

What are the pros and cons?

[bronxbombr]

engine vibration.

[sethmo]

Balance shaft is only there to help keep engine vibrations down.

Pro would be faster/easier reving and easier timing belt replacements. You take out a few pounds from the rotating mass of the engine.

BTW, hows the '64t holding up?

[4-G-rim]

The function of the balance/silent shaft is to smooth out unwanted engine vibrations. The shaft is unevenly weighted.

The balance shaft belt spins this offset weighted shaft inside the engine block. As it spins, the shaft tends to pull the engine towards the side with the weight on it. As the engine moves forwards, the shaft pulls it backwards, and vice versa. In this way, the engine shake is reduced. Since the shaft helps 'balance' the engine, it may be called a balance shaft. It can also be called a silent shaft, since it not only doesn't drive anything but it also helps quiet the engine down.

There are actually two balance shafts on a DSM engine. One is separate, and is run by the balance shaft belt, while the second shaft is integrated into the oil pump. Both spin in phase with each other.

Balance shafts are not strictly necessary to engine operation, and many engines lack balance shafts altogether. Removing them can increase engine output, as the engine doesn't waste energy spinning the shafts. The engine will run rougher as a result, but most people find the change bearable. Most people also agree that the engine must be properly balanced if you want to remove the balance shafts, to eliminate the possibility of long-term engine damage.

[peanotation]

i wouldn't do it. about half a day before my timing belt broke (that was fun :roll: ) my balance shaft belt broke, which broke my timing belt. during that half day before the timing belt blew, the engine was fine under normal acceleration, but at wot, it felt like the car was going to die and blow apart. it's too rough for me, i dont mind it, but i feel like i'm just destroying the engine.

[sethmo]

No balance shaft means no balance shaft belt to break the timing belt :wink:

[peanotation]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sethmo)</div><div class='quotemain'>No balance shaft means no balance shaft belt to break the timing belt :wink:</div>

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR? WANNA START SOME TGC NAME CALLING BULLSHIT?

well, my balance shaft belt broke, and the actual belt flew off onto the timing belt and got cought into that cluster fuck.

[4-G-rim]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'>i wouldn't do it. about half a day before my timing belt broke (that was fun Â*:roll: ) my balance shaft belt broke, which broke my timing belt. during that half day before the timing belt blew, the engine was fine under normal acceleration, but at wot, it felt like the car was going to die and blow apart. it's too rough for me, i dont mind it, but i feel like i'm just destroying the engine.</div>

If you spend time on DSM boards and talk to enough DSM owners...you'll see how balance shaft belts going out destroy their motors because like your said...the tear up the timing belt. Balance shaft removal is pretty much recommend by most DSMer's. Like what I last posted...balance shafts are only their to "smoothen" the vibrations the motor creates. I would though recommend to balance the motor if you do take the balance shaft off...is to balance the engine block. You will get a better response from the motor due to the fact it doesn't have to spin the Balance shafts...granted it will vibrate a little bit more. Also some guys that take out their Balance shafts have claimed faster 1/4 times.

[JiP]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sethmo)</div><div class='quotemain'>No balance shaft means no balance shaft belt to break the timing belt :wink:</div>

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR? WANNA START SOME TGC NAME CALLING BULLSHIT?

well, my balance shaft belt broke, and the actual belt flew off onto the timing belt and got cought into that cluster fuck.</div>

Are you being sarcastic?? No balance shaft DOES mean no belt to break and kill ur timing belt. Aside from getting rid of some excess weight, freeing up some RPMS from less rotational mass, thats the best reason to pull the shafts is so you only have 1 timing belt and no second belt to snap and strangle ur main belt.

Since it already happened to you, you should be Pro-Balanceshaft removal.


But anyway, aside from vibrations, which it depends who u ask. Some people say they feel no difference or very very slight vibration, others say they can't stand it. I would asume it depends on how balanced your engine is in the first place and the condition of the internals.

But removing the shafts also raises your oil pressure up which is kinda good.

[xSILENTx]

So is it a good idea to remove it?

[VA_LANCER_RACER]

balance shaft killed my car

[xSILENTx]

killed your car because you took it out or left it in?

[rfpa1]

Remove the balance shaft.


It killed my car at 70 or 75 miles on eastbound 80. The belt broke and caused the timming belt to jump, thus killing the head ( 8 of 16 valves) bent, all pistons with the intake valves print on them, valve guides on the first 3 valve in intake side destroyed.

I rebuilded my engine and the guys balanced all the parts for me (extra $$) but now it works better. Also, the sudden decelration and coasting cause the tranny to killed. So I did a tranny rebuild.

So Remove the balance shaft. Its not that bad Im almost used to it.

[VA_LANCER_RACER]

kept it in, it broke and took my timing belt with it

[xSILENTx]

How hard is it to remove?

[JiP]

Put it like this...your balance shaft is basically there to keep you driving comfy. Pull it out and you may vibrate like crazy and it could be anoying.

Other then that I see absolutely no reason to keep them in, its just added weight and risk. I havent heard of anyone's engine being destroyd from removing the shafts, and I've already posted the benifits of pulling them.

But it seems as if it could be a LOT of work. You have to remove the front case to get to the shafts, this is your oilpump assembly and all that, if its not put on correctly with the right gasket placement and bolts torqued correctly, you wont have any oil pressure, or youll leak oil like crazy and will destroy your engine. Also looks like a real bitch to do with the engine still in the car.

This is for a 1g, but you'll get the idea of what you have to do:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html ('http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html')

[peanotation]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JiP)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sethmo)</div><div class='quotemain'>No balance shaft means no balance shaft belt to break the timing belt :wink:</div>

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR? WANNA START SOME TGC NAME CALLING BULLSHIT?

well, my balance shaft belt broke, and the actual belt flew off onto the timing belt and got cought into that cluster fuck.</div>

Are you being sarcastic?? No balance shaft DOES mean no belt to break and kill ur timing belt. Aside from getting rid of some excess weight, freeing up some RPMS from less rotational mass, thats the best reason to pull the shafts is so you only have 1 timing belt and no second belt to snap and strangle ur main belt.

Since it already happened to you, you should be Pro-Balanceshaft removal.


But anyway, aside from vibrations, which it depends who u ask. Some people say they feel no difference or very very slight vibration, others say they can't stand it. I would asume it depends on how balanced your engine is in the first place and the condition of the internals.

But removing the shafts also raises your oil pressure up which is kinda good.</div>

hmm, i dont know how i sounded there, but i'm definatly pro-balance shaft belt removal. it fucked me and forced me to rebuild my engine, which i did with OEM parts ( :evil: ) cause my parents didn't let me put all aftermarket shit in there for some good power boost, but that was then. i'd definatly take it out, the vibrations is wierd, and it will take some getting used to. it feels like a super strong electrical surge running through the steering wheel.

[sethmo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sethmo)</div><div class='quotemain'>Pro: No balance shaft means no balance shaft belt to break the timing belt :wink:</div>

There I fixed it hehe

[TurboGalant]

Wow, thanks for all the good info.

I was wondering about the long term effects. I already have the engine out of the car and torn down. The mechanic (a DSMer) advised me to leave it out. Sounds like I should be fine without it.

I had the crankshaft balanced with the new pistons and rods a few months ago, but it looks like I'll have them do it again since it is out (and I may need new pistons).

Look in the car problems section to see the update on my engine.