will be going turbo but first a few questions

[95mitsu03]

I got this turbo off ebay... it's from 6 g vr4. would I be able to use the 2g stuff (turbo mani, ic, etc) with this or 1g? I believe that this a 14b right? please tell me if I am wrong here. Is there anything I should look out for with this turbo? oh and seth if your reading this, when are you going to make those ic pipings for us 7g ers?

[DOHCstunr]

its a snap to make intercooler pipes, you just have to order the bends, and couple them together with silicone couplings.
as far as the 14b, yes it will work splendidly,
now you need a 2nd gen manifold, an o2 sensor housing, oil feed line, and return line, and some fittings so you can run coolant through it.

to check the turbo,
first try to spin the shaft, it should spin rather freely. if its from a motor that has sit for a long time and theres no oil on the bearings, it may resist slightly, but it should still turn. put you finger on the nut in the middle of the copressor blades, now try to muve it around, back and forht , side to side. if it doesn't move at all your in great shape. its okay if it jiggles slightly, but if you have more than a couple of millimeters of play, you probably have a damaged compressor wheel by now. it will still work, but its not going to make as much boost, and you should reall think about replacing it.
inspect the turbine housing, is there any signs of oil residue? examine the metal that the housing is made of, are there any cracks? if there are, how cad are they? tiny fractures are okay, big cracks are not. examine the whole thing.
the 14b is a pretty durable turbo, i've seen a bunch of them used, and i've never ran into one that was bad off, but i've never seen a used t25 that wasn't shot.

there are other things you will need for your project of course.
why don't you tell us what you have so far, iand i'll tell you whwat you have left

[95mitsu03]

I dont have much right now just the turbo... I just made the decision just recently. I just want a little more power for my 7g. I am not going all out crazy to blow my car up :? . I want to run about 7-8 psi. This car is my daily driver , not an all out racecar.. But what ever power I can get would be great. Thanks.

[DOHCstunr]

8psi will make you a good amount of power. if you don't want to spend a lot of cash intitially, then try to get used stock parts, you can always upgrade later.


you are going to want bigger injectors. 450's are fine you can get them for cheap off any eclipse or vr4 galant. you will need the resistor pack to run them though.
you need an o2 sensor housing, and downpipe (2nd gen fwd)
blow off valve and flange(1st gen eclipse bov works great and is cheap to get you started)
get a 2nd gen side mount intercooler
get an oil pressure gauge, and a boost gauge.
you also need a walbro 190 fuel pump
and a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator (1:1)
i would recomend a safc2 and/or a exhaust gas temperature gauge.
thats most of it.
all the parts should cost you between 500 and 700 dollars.
but you might get them for less if you are a good ebayer. or if you know someone.

[DOHCstunr]

turbo systems work splendidly as a daily driver.

its like having a v8 on demand. you have all the fuel effeciency of a 4 cylinder when you aren't boosting, and the muscle of a V8 when you flex it. good luck man.

[brandon]

you also need a walbro 190 fuel pump
and a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator (1:1)
i would recomend a safc2 and/or a exhaust gas temperature gauge.
thats most of it.
all the parts should cost you between 500 and 700 dollars.


Fuel pump isn't necessary, but recommended if you don't do the fuel pump rewire.
Same for the FPR...
You should get both the SAFC and EGT gauge...
Parts will most definitely cost you more than 500-700, even used, in total. You'll also want to upgrade your exhaust which will cost a decent amount of money as well.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else posted!

[DOHCstunr]

you don't HAVE to upgrade you exhaust to go turbo, although its recomended, we run the same diameter piping as the stock 2nd gen.
like i said, get what you need to get started and get it running, then upgrade from there.
is the stock fpr boost dependant? or do you just have to max out your fuel at high rpms?
i do know that the stock fpr is set at much higher pressures than the stock eclipse fpr(which is boost dependant), you really want your base fuel pressure at 38.5 psi. and then raise pressure 1 lb for every lb of boost. what is the base pressure of the galant fpr?

[peanotation]

i am selling my 1g (13g/14b) and 2g(t25) oil return line. pm me if you want the 1g one.

[brandon]

you don't HAVE to upgrade you exhaust to go turbo, although its recomended, we run the same diameter piping as the stock 2nd gen.
like i said, get what you need to get started and get it running, then upgrade from there.
is the stock fpr boost dependant? or do you just have to max out your fuel at high rpms?
i do know that the stock fpr is set at much higher pressures than the stock eclipse fpr(which is boost dependant), you really want your base fuel pressure at 38.5 psi. and then raise pressure 1 lb for every lb of boost. what is the base pressure of the galant fpr?

True, you don't have to upgrade the exhaust, but you'll want to.. and since you're going to be modding the downpipe to fit your exhaust anyhow, might as well go the distance and do it all at once.

Not sure on base pressure for the stock FPR... I've been using a logger and SAFC II w/o an AFPR and had no real problems. With the AFPR though, I probably wouldn't be running so rich at idle and low RPMs, thus why it's recommended but not necessary.

[95mitsu03]

would I have to worry about boost creep if I have an enlarged exhaust? what do you mean side mounted ic?

[DOHCstunr]

side mount intercooler, its what comes stock on supras, 3000gt, eclipses, rx-7's. its a smaller intercooler that is more than enough to keep a 8psi charge cool. the eclipse side mount is factory for the 12psi that eclipses run. it mounts off to the side of the radiator, they are really easy to come by, and are quite inexpensive. the best part is, you keep the stock sleeper look. its also a benifit because it doesn't block any airflow to the radiator.
i'm pretty sure you will never see any boost creep when running only 8 psi, and the chances of you seeing it at 12psi are quite slim. just get a tubular 02 housing and you will never see it at those levels. although you will be fine with a stock 2nd gen o2 housing.

[DOHCstunr]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...7963553360&rd=1 ('http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42604&item=7963553360&rd=1')

here is a link for a great price on a quality bov. 2 hours left, but he has 8 of them. any body thinkiing of going turbo should jump on it. if you want to save some cash by not dropping $150+ dollars.

[brandon]

The best/easiest place to mount the SMIC would be the fenderwell if you decide to go that route. There's a lot of cutting and imagination involved to get it in there though. You'll also have to remove a lot of your emissions garbage that's mounted there presently.

I've been using the stock 2G SMIC w/o any problems but am upgrading to a FMIC in the next few weeks.

The 14b wastegate is set to around 9psi... so boost creep shouldn't be an issue. I have the stock 2G O2 housing, and 2.5" exhaust all the way back with no creep.

[sabzi5858]

creep becomes an issue when backpressure after the turbo is decreased but not behind the wastegate, resulting in a situation where the wastegate can't relieve enough pressure in the exhaust manifold-turbine housing, resulting in excess boost, even when the wastegate is wide open. this is a likely situation with a 3" turbo-back exhaust with no cats. or atleast on the 16g it tends to be.

[DOHCstunr]

but not at 8psi bub

[95mitsu03]

but not at 8psi bub

now how would the 8psi be controlled?

[sabzi5858]

but not at 8psi bub

??? you will never get down to 8 psi if you are creeping bad. i don't know if you know anything about creep, but lowering youre boost setting will not help the creep caused by a wastegate that isn't able to get rid of enough exhaust gasses to get it to that level, if anything, it will be worse.

[DOHCstunr]

the wastgate actuator spring is set to 8 psi.

do you really think that you would have problems with creep with that turbo on this motor.
i know the 2.4 is going to exhaust more gases at the same rpm than the 2.0, but i've never heard of ANYBODY having compressor surge issue's on a stock 14b
even on a stock eclipse, if your timing gets pulled the bcs will pull you down 8psi. I've never heard of anybody spiking the 14b (or a t-25)when its down that low. that would be poor engineering on mitsu' part for allowing compressor surge under the designated operating parameters.
since there isn't a bcs on the 4g64, he's always going to run 8 psi unless he gets a controller.
i don't think the 4g64 is going to beat the wastegate when running a 14b, even as low as 8psi.
and the 4g64 doesn't rev as high as the 63, so that leads me to believe that it wouldn't be any more susceptable to compressor surge than the 2.0 at 8psi.
i could be wrong,

but IF it was an issue
you could get a tubular housing or port your o2 to combat creep,

[95mitsu03]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'>the wastgate actuator spring is set to 8 psi.

do you really think that you would have problems with creep with that turbo on this motor.
i know the 2.4 is going to exhaust more gases at the same rpm than Â*the 2.0, but i've never heard of ANYBODY having compressor surge issue's on a stock 14b
even on a stock eclipse, if your timing gets pulled the bcs will pull you down 8psi. Â*I've never heard of anybody spiking the 14b (or a t-25)when its down that low. that would be poor engineering on mitsu' part for allowing compressor surge under the designated operating parameters.
since there isn't a bcs on the 4g64, he's always going to run 8 psi unless he gets a controller.
i don't think the 4g64 is going to beat the wastegate when running a 14b, even as low as 8psi.
and the 4g64 doesn't rev as high as the 63, so that leads me to believe that it wouldn't be any more susceptable to compressor surge than the 2.0 at 8psi.
i could be wrong, Â*

but IF it was an issue
you could get a tubular housing or port your o2 to combat creep,</div>

if thats the case then I shouldn't have anything to worry about. Thanks for all you advice. @ 8psi, what kind of hp would I be seeing? just curious

[DOHCstunr]

couldn't tell you.
it depends on what kind of a/f ratio you are seeing.
just guessing here, but i don't think it would be hard to squeeze 50 or 60 wheel horsepower out of that motor with some good tuning, and proper supporting mods. but thats just peak power. you are going to have a stronger powerband from 2500 to redline. And with the right fuel trim you could see those powergains all the way to redline, instead of your powerband going flat after 5200 like you are used to seeing. you'll get a jump in midrange torque too. be optimistic, but be realistic too.

[sabzi5858]

first of all, we are talking about boost creep, not compressor surge.

and if the boost always fell to what the wastegate is set at, we would not have something called boost creep. you can also never run lower than the wastegate spring pressure unless something is wrong (or you forced something to be wrong.) even the dsm's bcs can't lower boost below what the actuator is set at. boost creep isn't just a function of what turbo you are running, there are many things involved, such as exhaust sizing, pressure differentials, and then all the little things that can go wrong. i'm not saying boost creep is going to be an issue for you, what i'm saying is "don't tell people they aren't gonna have issues with boost creep, because you don't know that, and you can't know that unless you know every single thing about their setup. this includes knowing how their timing is set."

and last, but not least, do a search on dsmtalk if you wanna hear about people with boost creep issues on a 14b. remember, bad tuning can also cause boost creep. and in a lot of cases, porting the o2 housing (without properly porting the wastegate opening) has cause boost creep to be worse, not better.

[brandon]

and if the boost always fell to what the wastegate is set at, we would not have something called boost creep. you can also never run lower than the wastegate spring pressure unless something is wrong (or you forced something to be wrong.) even the dsm's bcs can't lower boost below what the actuator is set at. boost creep isn't just a function of what turbo you are running, there are many things involved, such as exhaust sizing, pressure differentials, and then all the little things that can go wrong.

remember, bad tuning can also cause boost creep. and in a lot of cases, porting the o2 housing (without properly porting the wastegate opening) has cause boost creep to be worse, not better.

Good explanation/clarification... thanks.

[95mitsu03]

just got the turbo today. there is a slight shaft play on the compression blades. it also has some dented/broken fins on the blade, exhaust side. Anything to worry about. should I get it rebuilt? is it something I could do or need professional help? thanks

[sabzi5858]

Good explanation/clarification... thanks.

no problem.

is the shaft play in/out, or side/side/up/down? if the exhaust blades are badly damaged, it can affect how much power you can get out of the turbo and how fast it spools up. you can always install it and see how you like it, and decide if you wanna get it rebuilt then. make sure none of the compressor blades are falling apart though, you don't want pieces of your turbo flying into your engine.

[95mitsu03]

is the shaft play in/out, or side/side/up/down? if the exhaust blades are badly damaged, it can affect how much power you can get out of the turbo and how fast it spools up. you can always install it and see how you like it, and decide if you wanna get it rebuilt then. make sure none of the compressor blades are falling apart though, you don't want pieces of your turbo flying into your engine.

shaft play is side->side up/down

blades are intact

[sabzi5858]

approx. how much movement?

[95mitsu03]

approx. how much movement?

about a few millimeters I think.

[DOHCstunr]

does it feel really loose, or do you have to force it to feel the play. SABZI is right, as long as the compressor blades are fine it is still safe to run the turbo, and if you have to upgrade later, so be it.
how many millimeters is a few millemeters?
1 or 2,
,5 or 6?

is the turbine housing cracked anywhere?
take the turbine housing off and inspect the exhaust wheel.
are there any signs of oil on the turbine exit? or in the o2 housing?

[DOHCstunr]

in my opinion rebuilding a 14b is not worth the cost, when you could upgrade for a little more. forced performance has TD05 18g's now that they sell without the turbine housing for $429 that will bolt right into your stock tdo5 turbine housing. No core required. you could sell your 14b without the housing for about 90 bucks on ebay to make the 18g more affordable.
http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchan..._Code=DSM-Turbo ('http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTDSM18G5HwoTH&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo')

[95mitsu03]

does it feel really loose, or do you have to force it to feel the play. SABZI is right, as long as the compressor blades are fine it is still safe to run the turbo, and if you have to upgrade later, so be it.
how many millimeters is a few millemeters?
1 or 2,
,5 or 6?

is the turbine housing cracked anywhere?
take the turbine housing off and inspect the exhaust wheel.
are there any signs of oil on the turbine exit? or in the o2 housing?

just checked < 1mm, not really loose. no cracks anywhere. no signs of oil. just one of the blades on the exhaust side broke off

[DOHCstunr]

what do you mean broke off, is it chipped,
or is there a whole blade missing,
or is it a chunk of blade?
you have a picture of the exhaust wheel?

[95mitsu03]

what do you mean broke off, is it chipped,
or is there a whole blade missing,
or is it a chunk of blade?
you have a picture of the exhaust wheel?


chunk of the blade small chunk

[DOHCstunr]

can we get a pic?

[95mitsu03]

in my opinion rebuilding a 14b is not worth the cost, when you could upgrade for a little more. forced performance has TD05 18g's now that they sell without the turbine housing for $429 that will bolt right into your stock tdo5 turbine housing. No core required. you could sell your 14b without the housing for about 90 bucks on ebay to make the 18g more affordable.
http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTDSM18G5HwoTH&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo


wouldn't this be an over kill for a 4g64?

[sabzi5858]

definitely not if you are going to forge your internals and run more boost.

[95mitsu03]

definitely not if you are going to forge your internals and run more boost.


just going to leave my internal stock for now. I will be happy with a 14b. brandon's going to look it over and maybe he can explain it better than I can.

[brandon]

Two bent blades and one cracked blade... looks like something got in there and the turbo didn't like it much.

I suggested putting it back up on ebay and trying to find another.