additional injector(s)?

[j686m]

anybody checked this out yet? http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html ('http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html') i was thinking about trying this out in my next turbo setup because i didnt like the results of bigger injectors with SAFC(mostly becuase of timing issues)on my old 7g. the guys on turbosaturn.net have used it and they say it works pretty good.

[ChikagoGTZ]

Why not just add a Walbro 255 and some large ass DSM injectors?? This is useless and expected on a saturn. :? Plenty of people use those and the SAFC, get some adjustable cam gears and you should be able to work on the timing...or go with the Greddy fuel timing system.

[j686m]

because this would be a simple to install and tune, my stock fuel pump will be fine under mild boost and when driving off boost the stock fuel system would be left alone to do its job, it would run better and get better gas milage. like i said ive done that before and didnt like the way it ran, the safc jacked the timing up and every since i put it in with the injectors it didnt run as good off boost and got bad milage. cam gears or gear in my case is not gonna help timing because its DIS. i dont like piggy backs and would like a standalone but thats too much money and tuning right now. i was wondering if anyone had tried it on a mitsu and what their results were, not saying that one is better than the other because i have no experience with the additional injector setup.

[underated]

that system doesnt seem to be a solution to your problem i mean yah it would solve the timing issue that the afc causes but its not that big of a deal if your gonna switch why not go to the greddy emanage it also controls sub injectors and alot more that system you posted was something like 360 just for the controller. if your running mild boost is the timing trouble really that major

[sabzi5858]

what ecu are you going to be using, and what sized injectors?

[j686m]

maybe a greddy unit or something similar, i read into it a little more and there were some drivability issues with the sds unit because of over fueling in the midrange. the greddy unit has rpm adjustable points instead of just one adjustment like the sds. not sure on the injectors, probably two fairly large ones if i even decide to try this setup, like i said im just looking into it right now and trying to get some feedback

[brandon]

I'd recommend just getting DSM injectors, a resistor pack, and a 2G ECU...

Technically you wouldn't even need a piggy back.

[j686m]

well i have an 8g now so a 2g ecu is probably out of the question, so what are you running on yours and how does it run

[brandon]

Ahhh gotcha. I just assumed you got another 7G.

[Darkkend]

A buddy of mine in PR once went to a junk yard and pulled some stuff and pulled injectors from a mustang. Then he came back and swapped out his for the mustangs and boy did the gas gauge dropped everytime he stepped on the gas after about 2 miles of testing we came back and swapped it back in for the stock injectors but still want to use those mustang injectors. So he had the crazy idea to just had 2 of the injectors to his intake (a ghetto nitrous setup) and connected to his old fog lights switch. It actually worked but how much HP he was gaining I had no idea.

He had a 98 Hyundai Accent (2 door hatch), I have no idea which mustang the injectors came from. He got rid of the accent and now has a Mazda 3.

[peanotation]

i think spraying the extra injectors will just run an overly rich fuel mixture.

[GalantGuy96]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'>i think spraying the extra injectors will just run an overly rich fuel mixture.</div>
^im with stupid.



thats just a plain retarded idea......did he have a homemade supercharger too?

[Darkkend]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GalantGuy96)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'>i think spraying the extra injectors will just run an overly rich fuel mixture.</div>
^im with stupid.



thats just a plain retarded idea......did he have a homemade supercharger too?</div>

haha no, but if he could have made it he would have.

[j686m]

i think im gonna give this one a try http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html ('http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html') with a budget kit from www.tearstone.com. ill let you know how it turns out

[peanotation]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j686m)</div><div class='quotemain'>i think im gonna give this one a try http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html ('http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html') with a budget kit from www.tearstone.com. Â*ill let you know how it turns out</div>

why not go the easy and proven route? bigger injectors with tuning. you need tuning anyways with a turbo setup.

[ChikagoGTZ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j686m)</div><div class='quotemain'>i think im gonna give this one a try http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html ('http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html') with a budget kit from www.tearstone.com. Â*ill let you know how it turns out</div>

why not go the easy and proven route? bigger injectors with tuning. you need tuning anyways with a turbo setup.</div>

Stop trying to care Peano, I did, and I feel great!

[Stewi]

yeah the only time you need secondary injectors is for high HP/high boost applications. example, RX7's are notorious for running secondary injectors. What happens is you have your regular 4 injectors, in vacuum and low boost the 4 injectors give enough fuel, once the car starts boosting higher, the secondary injectors are activated to add more fuel with the extra boost. I know of 2 people with EVO's doing the same thing, they run 2 seperate fuel rails, a walbro 255 pump in the tank, and 2 walbro inline pumps (one to feed each rail), 8, 720cc injectors. 4 of the injectors are on all the time and the other 4 only turn on after 20psi of boost.

[ChikagoGTZ]

yeah the only time you need secondary injectors is for high HP/high boost applications. example, RX7's are notorious for running secondary injectors. What happens is you have your regular 4 injectors, in vacuum and low boost the 4 injectors give enough fuel, once the car starts boosting higher, the secondary injectors are activated to add more fuel with the extra boost. I know of 2 people with EVO's doing the same thing, they run 2 seperate fuel rails, a walbro 255 pump in the tank, and 2 walbro inline pumps (one to feed each rail), 8, 720cc injectors. 4 of the injectors are on all the time and the other 4 only turn on after 20psi of boost.

Wow I need pics of that 4-720, +1 = 4x900cc +2 = 4x1180cc, and +4 = 4 1440cc injectors, and that is just too much fuel for any boost application I can fathom!!! Why not just run 1660 primaries and then a few 440 secondaries if you need them...that should get you up to about 800whp https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[j686m]

i think im gonna give this one a try http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html ('http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html') with a budget kit from www.tearstone.com. ill let you know how it turns out

why not go the easy and proven route? why not just buy bigger injectors with tuning. you need tuning anyways with a turbo setup.
has anyone tried this on our cars? no. i have done the easy and proven route before, and i didnt like it. yes it works, it works pretty good actually, but its not optimal. piggy backs that alter the airflow signal tend to srew the stock timing and fuel mapps up off boost. the stock ecu has been programed from the factory to give the best fuel milage and runability in a varity of conditions, unboosted that is, us small timer tuners cannot improve much on what a team of engineers spent ass loads of time fine tuning, with out sacrificing some drivability or other side effects. what i want to do is what like stewi described with the evos, add fuel when the stock system runs out(which is when boost hits in our case). im goin to use the injectors in the intake setup like ripps at first with low boost (around 7lbs) and without modding the airflow signal like an SAFC, timing should be ok at that boost level. later on im gonna add the second rail with more boost and some sort timing managment. i have even seem people run the secondary rail/pump off of a seperate tank of race fuel, so you only burn the expensive stuff when youre are boostin. and when off boost it will run and idle like stock, get the same milage, and pass emissions testing.

[Jet Black]

I was thinking of doing something similiar as well. Decided to forgo the idea since I had/have plenty of other stuff too worry about.

https://www.thegalantcenter.org/viewt...7463&highlight= ('https://www.thegalantcenter.org/viewtopic.php?t=37463&highlight=')

Good luck.

[peanotation]

i think im gonna give this one a try http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html ('http://www.034motorsport.com/034SupECU.html') with a budget kit from www.tearstone.com. ill let you know how it turns out

why not go the easy and proven route? why not just buy bigger injectors with tuning. you need tuning anyways with a turbo setup.
has anyone tried this on our cars? no. i have done the easy and proven route before, and i didnt like it. yes it works, it works pretty good actually, but its not optimal. piggy backs that alter the airflow signal tend to srew the stock timing and fuel mapps up off boost.

you still havn't convinced me really. if you want optimal, why not get the greddy emanage ultimate? yeah, you have to blow some money but i dont know if what you're talking about would be easier or better.


piggy backs that alter the airflow signal tend to srew the stock timing and fuel mapps up off boost.

duh. thats why you have to tune it. i can't help you with the timing really, but i don't see why the afc would affect the timing at all. get a rising rate FPR at 1:1 for tuning. as the turbo builds boost you'll always have the appropiate amount of gasoline to match it, provided you've tuned everything with the afc or w/e your using.

when i took my car to the dyno the timing was kosher and my a/f ratios were just a little over rich, but i still havn't properly tuned it yet. all i was running at that point was just an afc and bigger injectors, not even my afpr yet.


has anyone tried this on our cars? no.
hundreds of people. literally. most of them are running stable. i'm one of them.

if you do go the route your planning to, please post some pics and a summary. i'd like to see it done and working

[Stewi]

yeah the only time you need secondary injectors is for high HP/high boost applications. example, RX7's are notorious for running secondary injectors. What happens is you have your regular 4 injectors, in vacuum and low boost the 4 injectors give enough fuel, once the car starts boosting higher, the secondary injectors are activated to add more fuel with the extra boost. I know of 2 people with EVO's doing the same thing, they run 2 seperate fuel rails, a walbro 255 pump in the tank, and 2 walbro inline pumps (one to feed each rail), 8, 720cc injectors. 4 of the injectors are on all the time and the other 4 only turn on after 20psi of boost.

Wow I need pics of that 4-720, +1 = 4x900cc +2 = 4x1180cc, and +4 = 4 1440cc injectors, and that is just too much fuel for any boost application I can fathom!!! Why not just run 1660 primaries and then a few 440 secondaries if you need them...that should get you up to about 800whp https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

Your math just doesnt make any sense. What im saying is, there are 8, 720cc injectors. 4 that are alwauys on and 4 that only come on under high boost, im not saying they come on at 100% cycle. The reason that people dont run 1660's on street cars is because it always runs excessively rich and often fouls spark plugs, although some RX7 guys do use huge injectors. Your only recommended to run injectors at 80% duty cycle. So somone running a 720cc injector is only getting 576cc of fuel out of them, thats the safe way to do it. If you run injectors at 90-100% duty cycle, especially a ball and disc injector and you lock up the injector, your losing that motor. because most likely, at that high of duty cycle your already into high boosting, hot air, spark and no fuel equals big time detonation.

[DOHCstunr]

you can get a lovely idle if you have a fuel management system that can alter pulsewidth and deadtime directly.
larger injectors take longer to open. thats one of the reasons its so hard to get a solid idle w/ big injectors on a stock ecu.

it was easy for me to run 550's cause i had keydiver make me and eprom to configure the 550's to run just like stock. my gasmileage out of boost is still awesome. and my idle is perfect.
now eproms aren't an option for stock ecu's. but reflashes are on flashable ecu's.

there are guys w/ his eproms running 850's with great idles.

just an example of what can be done given the options that are out there.

additional injectors are not the only way to go. injectors are costly anyways. i'd prefer to only have one set... if i could.

[j686m]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(peanotation)</div><div class='quotemain'>
hundreds of people. literally. most of them are running stable. i'm one of them.

if you do go the route your planning to, please post some pics and a summary. i'd like to see it done and working</div>

i was talking about using additional injectors, i havent seen anyone do it on our cars. the safc actually increases timing because the computer sees less air flow and thinks it ok to use a lot of timing, but actually a lot of air is coming in, just less pulsewidth is required for the same amount of fuel on the bigger injectors. you say "duh, thats why you have to tune it" but you cant tune out the timing problem with an safc, you can only make it worse. all im saying is im gonna run mild boost(at first) and put in a set of additional injectors with that fully programable ecu and put a tee in the stock fuel line to feed them. thats all, no need to cut into the factory harness, rig-up fprs or fmus or other stuff like that. most of all i think and it sounds good in theory and want to try it. so ill def post pics and let you know how it all goes