Affects of headers

[Alister_McRae]

Will getting new headers say Kamikazee headers help the performance of the a turbo charger, or would it matter if i ran a 16g turbo on stock headers? :?:

[T.S.]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alister_McRae)</div><div class='quotemain'>Will getting new headers say Kamikazee headers help the performance of the a turbo charger, or would it matter if i ran a 16g turbo on stock headers? :?:</div>

You cant use those with a turbocharger, turbo needs a manifold that has a line taking exhaust gasses to the turbochager to make it spool up, then exhaust flow is what spins the little turbine in there to force more air back in the engine again, thats kinda how a turbo works, the faster the exhaust spins one side of it, the faster the other side tries force air into your motor. You cant use stock or kamakazee, but I believe the intake manifold off a turbo 1g eclipse will work when you are finally getting your turbo installed

[Black2k1GTZ]

If your going with a turbo you should get a new down pipe. Even now itll give you impressive performance gains...couple that with an AFC and you will be all good for a turbo. Also I would go with 2.75 or 3" piping if yopur gonna go with forced induction. I wouldnt mess with it until the time comes though...because you might loose some power because of the loss of back pressure!!!

*edit*
The manifold you need is from the 2g eclipse turbo...



Marc :mg:

[pinoyesv6]

if you are getting a turbo, my recommendation is just to get a cone filter and MAS adaptor and some temporary mods while you are waiting for your upgrade. things like exhaust, and most intake components might not be used in a turbo setup. and with the exhuast, don't go all out on it cuz chances are you are gonna lose power b4 the turbo or plan out changing alot when u put the turbo on

[SlickVernon]

i understand how this all works for the turbo, but what about for a supercharger????

1. how big should your exhaust piping be???
2. can you use headers, or is that a no go on the supercharger as well??
3. if i dont have the supercharger yet, can i still get the intercooler and use it before the supercharger, or do i have to have the supercharger first.
4. pretty much just tell me what would be needed to run a supercharger.

thanks for any help that can be given.

correct me if im wrong but a supercharger will give you a lot more lower end torque right????? so why does everyone want a turbo?? cant you just get nos to take care of the high end torque, and have the supercharger just improve your off the line ability?
thanks again

[cdaw2001ES]

You would need the turbo, or the Supercharge fist -

The ONLY option for a supercharge for ur engine - is a completley custom mod. $5G's would get you close. and you may have to drive cross country to find someone to do it.

[T.S.]

For those of you interested in turbo...... I didnt write this though...


Mitsubishi 14B and 16G Turbocharger Installation Guide

Written by Mike Gaddis -
Disclaimer
This is just a simple account of how I installed my turbo. You can do it different. You can also do it my way and break your car. If you do, that's not my problem. You follow these instructions at your own risk.

NOTE: This may not be accurate yet. I need to check a few things, including the part numbers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


Parts needed:
Mitsubishi Turbocharger, 14B or 16G

1st Generation oil feed line (Mits. # MD239830) or braided stainless feed line from Road Race Engineering (better)

1st Generation oil return line (Mits. # MD150523)

1 oil feed banjo bolt (engine block side) (Mits. # MF650102)

2 oil feed crush washers (engine block side) (Mits. # MF660065)

1 oil feed banjo bolt (turbo side) (Mits. # MF245451)

2 oil feed crush washers (turbo side) (Mits. # MF660063)

2 coolant feed banjo bolts (Mits. # MD650114)

4 coolant feed/return crush washers (Mits. # MF660064)

metal gasket - between exhaust manifold & turbo (Mits. # MD128901)

metal gasket - between oxygen sensor housing & turbo (Mits. # MD124675)

small plug to stop up the stock oil feed (not needed if using RRE braided line)

These can be replaced with a can of The Right Stuff gasket maker:
turbo outlet gasket (between turbo and outlet elbow)

2 oil return line gaskets

Lower IC pipe (hack - buy a real one, look at Road Race's page)
2 feet of 1 7/8" radiator hoses

exhaust coupling, 1 7/8" to 2 1/4"s

turbo outlet elbow

2 hose clamps

Pre-Setup:
Make sure you have some sort of boost controller. If you're still using that stupid solenoid, stop here. Really. That thing works for the T-25, but we're talking about adding a LOT of airflow here. It's just too inaccurate to be of any real use. Get rid of it, and at LEAST put some simple little bleeder in. Yes, a boost controller that uses solenoids that you can CONTROL and is ACCURATE will work here. Check my boost controller page, or visit Mario "Porsche Killer" Pennycooke's web site if you want to make one of those.

Turn your boost down. Now. This way you don't forget to later.

Clean your new turbo, if it's used. They look nicer. I polished the compressor housing on my 14B, first with a Dremel sanding drum, then with 300, 600, and 1200 grit sand paper, then Mother's metal polish. It looks real nice now. You don't need to make the turbine housing look nice, it gets covered by the lower heat shield. (Yes, you should re-install this).

Setup:
Jack up the front of the car, support with jack stands.

Drain oil and coolant - and I mean all of it. Make sure you don't put the caps back on, or you'll have coolant left in the turbo. I did that and made a mess on the floor.

Removal:
Remove both radiator fans. (4 10mm bolts)

One thing that will make your life easier is to pull the radiator. You don't have to, but it just gets in the way otherwise, and it's empty by this point anyways.

Remove both heat shields, one from exhaust manifold, one from turbocharger turbine housing. (8 12mm bolts)

Remove the air intake.

Remove the coolant overflow bottle. Watch for spillage.

Remove the mass airflow sensor.

Remove the intake hose. Make sure you remember where all the little vacuum hoses go. Now is a good time to cut out the bypass valve return tube if you're going to do it at all. I cut mine with a hack saw, the smoothed it with the Dremel, and RTV'd it in the hole. I had to go back in with the Dremel and finish it off, I didn't take off enough the first time. You can see where to cut, since the part that's inside the intake path will have a thin film of oil on it. Just cut that part off.

Unplug the oxygen sensor connector.

Unbolt the downpipe from the oxygen sensor housing (2 17mm bolts)

Detach both coolant feed and return lines from the turbo. You may still have coolant in the lines, so watch it. A piece of hose works great here, I've got a 3 foot piece of green plastic 1/2" ID hose I use for draining coolant laying around.

Unbolt the lower oil feed line fitting (on the oil cooler, 19mm bolt), and all brackets holding this thing on.

Unbolt the oil return line. (4 10mm bolts)

Find a trained monkey to hold the turbo up while you unbolt all four exhaust manifold bolts. Note that one of these is a stud, you'll just get the nut off of it. (4 14mm bolts) You may need to provide your monkey with food or beer, but it's better than straining yourself trying to do this yourself. You do NOT want to drop the turbo.

Remove the turbo. If you have trouble due to the oil feed being still attached, unbolt that too (11mm) while your monkey gets tired holding the thing up.

Disassembly:
Unbolt the oxygen sensor housing from the turbine housing. (4 14mm bolts) Get your monkey to stand on the parts (put cardboard or something similar under the turbo, you don't want to scratch it on your garage floor) while you crank them with the wrench. Usually, these are REALLY stuck.

Unbolt both coolant lines. (19mm banjo bolts)

Recycle:
Advertise that turbo for sale on some Honda web pages. Or mabye Lotus, the new Esprit V8 uses two T-25's...

Assembly:
Attach the oxygen sensor housing to the 14B, making sure to put the gasket between them. I'd suggest using a new gasket, but then, the old one can't be THAT bad. (14mm bolts) Torque appropriately.

Attach the 2G coolant lines, with NEW copper crush washers. Note that the banjo bolts are VERY fragile (I have a broken one to prove this...), so get them snug by hand and give them mabye a 1/2 turn. The crush washers will deform and make a decent seal. That's why you use new washers each time you take this apart.


Attach the 1G oil feed line, using the same method. Yes, it requires some custom bending. CAREFUL of these, you can kink or break them if you're not careful. And don't squeeze them with pliers, grab the END and pull/push that. They're more fragile than you think.

Better yet, install the cool braided stainless oil feed line made by Road Race Engineering. It's only $50, and it not only looks better, it's much better for your car, and FAR easier to install than that stupid 1G oil feed line.

NOTE: you'll probably have to remove the little brackets on the coolant and oil lines, they didn't fit right on mine. I just snapped them off.

Installation:
With your trained monkey holding the turbo again (he must be real tired by now...), bolt the thing onto the exhaust manifold. Use a new gasket if you have one. I bolted up the stud (the one that you have a nut only for) first, then did the next few steps, and finished off by tightening this and the other three bolts. (14mm bolts) And DON'T FORGET that little ring that goes between the manifold and turbo.

Bolt the oil feed line into the hole on the upper left (facing front of the car) of the engine block. There's a bolt in there that you'll have to remove, this is the 1G oil feed location. Again, careful of the banjo bolt. You'll have to find something to stopper up the hole where the 2G feed came from, down on the oil cooler thingy. Again, this step can be replaced by installation of the braided stainless line from RRE.

Attach the coolant feed hoses to the metal lines, use the clamps that were there before.

Get under the car and attach the oil return line. Use plenty of The Right Stuff (if you didn't get gaskets, which really aren't worth it IMO). Be sure you don't get the gasket sealer in the oil flow path. Get these tight, but not over tight. The gasket sealer should do the rest. Make sure you clean as much of the oil off where the gasket goes so you get a good seal. And check this for a few days afterwards, the lower fitting is notorious for leaking.

While you're under there, bolt the downpipe onto the oxygen sensor housing.

Plug in the oxygen sensor connector. Just leave the wire hanging there for a minute, we'll put it on right when the heat shield goes on a bit later.

Re-attach the air intake hose, and all the little vacuum hoses that go on it. Also attach the bypass valve return hose.

Re-attach the Mass Airflow Sensor. Be sure you attach the electrical connection, your car will have a fit if you don't. The check engine light WILL come on if you forget this.

Re-install the coolant overflow bottle.

Re-install the air filter

Attach the lower IC pipe, to both the turbo and the intercooler. Use some of the gasket sealer to go between the turbo and the flang on your pipe or elbow. If you're using the 14B turbo elbow or the 16G J-pipe, make sure the upper hose clamp is tight, as well as the lower. The 16G J-pipe that most places sell doesn't have a little lip on the end, and the hose tends to blow off at the most inconvienient times. Try to get the flexible lower pipe on as far as you can, and check this often, like weekly, for slippage. The 14B elbow has a little vacuum nipple, cover that up, you won't use it.

Fill the engine/radiator with coolant. The shop manual says 7.8 quarts, which is a bit less than 2 gallons. I used about 1.5, and it just wouldn't fit anymore.

Fill the engine with oil. As always, use synthetic.

Check EVERYTHING. Make sure you didn't forget to attach anything, there are no fluids leaking out, and no connectors hanging loose.

Check EVERYTHING again. It doesn't hurt to be thorough.

The Moment of Truth
Turn off your turbo timer. It's just a precaution - in case you need to quickly turn the car off in the next step.

Start the car. If anything sounds funny, or shakes, or ANYTHING else weird happens, TURN THE CAR OFF!

Now that the car is running, check for leaks (coolant, oil, air) again.

Reinstall the radiator fans and the heat shields. Make sure you put the oxygen sensor wire into the little clips on the upper heat shield.

Go drive. Feel the power!

[Auto-9]

I think the general accepted explanation is this: turbos have the downside of turbo lag, while superchargers have the "always on" power. Problem with the supercharger is it isn't as efficient. As for building up a supercharged car, you don't have to worry about emissions stuff working, you just build it up as you would any all motor application. There is a 4500 supercharger kit from Ripp Mods available for our V6 models (which I'm planning in getting), talk to them for more information about going this route. They can explain what you need and don't need really well, in fact they were the ones I talked to first.

[Tiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SlickVernon)</div><div class='quotemain'>i understand how this all works for the turbo, but what about for a supercharger???? Â*

1. Â*how big should your exhaust piping be???
2. Â*can you use headers, or is that a no go on the supercharger as well??
3. Â*if i dont have the supercharger yet, can i still get the intercooler and use it before the supercharger, or do i have to have the supercharger first. Â*
4. Â*pretty much just tell me what would be needed to run a supercharger.

thanks for any help that can be given.

correct me if im wrong but a supercharger will give you a lot more lower end torque right????? Â*so why does everyone want a turbo?? Â*cant you just get nos to take care of the high end torque, and have the supercharger just improve your off the line ability?
thanks again</div>

Supercharger will give you more power initially off the line... a turbo (depending on size) will take longer to give you power, as it needs to "spool up"... A Supercharger will increase your power throughout the entire rpm range, but is not usually able to produce the BIG horsepower numbers a turbo does...

Depending on boost levels, a 2.5" exhaust will be plenty large for a 4 cylinder...

Superchargers usually do not have an intercooler option... If anything they can have an "aftercooler" or some sort of water injection to cool the intake charge... or a small shot of NO2 would do the same trick... I have yet to see a supercharger with an intercooler... i'm not saying it's not available, i'm just saying i've never seen one... but i don't think running an intercooler without some sort of FI is reasonable...

To run the SC, you will need some sort of fuel management... either some piggyback bullshit... HKS SAFR / Apexi SAFC, or some sort of stand alone engine management software... bigger injectors maybe, an upgraded fuel pump, a fuel pressure regulator... the list goes on and on... but that's kinda the basics...

[pinoyesv6]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SlickVernon)</div><div class='quotemain'>i understand how this all works for the turbo, but what about for a supercharger???? Â*

1. Â*how big should your exhaust piping be???
2. Â*can you use headers, or is that a no go on the supercharger as well??
3. Â*if i dont have the supercharger yet, can i still get the intercooler and use it before the supercharger, or do i have to have the supercharger first. Â*
4. Â*pretty much just tell me what would be needed to run a supercharger.

thanks for any help that can be given.

correct me if im wrong but a supercharger will give you a lot more lower end torque right????? Â*so why does everyone want a turbo?? Â*cant you just get nos to take care of the high end torque, and have the supercharger just improve your off the line ability?
thanks again</div>

1. 2.75" 3" inches is good for the v6. but i would also check with your exhaust shop to see what kind of piping would fit better with the stcok routing, i know most of you guys have exposing the pipe around that cross member and thats where it gets tight

2 AMSS headers wrok with the supercharger, so im guessing that it would work for the possibly other brands too

3. you need to get the supercharger first...on the other hand, you can just mount the intercooler and drive around with that "i've got a fake turbo" look

4. you can just get teh supercharger kit, and just put it on and run your car. but you won't get the most out of it. i'd build up the motor, the tranny, afc, fpr, injectors and all that good stuff. and o yea really importantly, tires, good tires. there's no real point of getting all this power if you an't plant it to the ground...

now for the whole nos thing, uhm, at least with the ripp mods blower, i don't think its needed, unless you're crazy. lets just say taht on the test car they used, yea they were chirping tires shifting from 4th to 5th gear. but yea, if that still isn't enough power 4 u then i guess you can risk everything and spray nitrous

[Auto-9]

You probably wouldn't be going anywhere while spraying though https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[cdaw2001ES]

A little NOS ((LITTLE) can have stricktly cooling effects. well maybe a little push too