Laxin's Turbo Build

[laxinwarrior]

Ok so here's the deal ... I am going turbo but I don't know which way to go. I am going to build up a nice 4g64 with dohc but I almost have everything needed to go turbo and am kind of torn between throwing it on the SOHC 64 that I have now until I get my engine built or just waiting until then to unleash the boost. :? Any input would be appreciated.

[DOHCstunr]

better to learn from the mistakes you make on the expendable motor, than ruin a perfectly good one.

[4g63lover]

well, see this is my plan. I have the SOHC 4G64 and I will turbocharge it sometime this year hopefully. But I'm also building another motor, which will be a 4G64 with the EVO head. Built and boosted. But, Im playing with the SOHC and boost so that I can have some experience with it instead of blowing the second motor up which will probabaly cost more than the boosted SOHC will if anytime it breaks. After the built motor is done and shoehorned in the engine bay.. Im applying for bullrun!

[laxinwarrior]

Thanks for the quick replies, i'm leaning towards going turbo first while I build the engine but i really want a fully built 64 and I know once I go turbo i'm going to have a lot of things to deal with and it will take even longer to build the engine. :evil:

[4g63lover]

Thanks for the quick replies, i'm leaning towards going turbo first while I build the engine but i really want a fully built 64 and I know once I go turbo i'm going to have a lot of things to deal with and it will take even longer to build the engine. :evil:

patience is a virtue my friend, Breant Rau and John Shepherd didnt go from stock to running 7's overnight.

[laxinwarrior]

To go turbo SOHC what's the least fuel upgrades you guys would recommend, fuel pump rewire, 255 walbro(i know 190 works for SOHC but i would rather not upgrade twice), AFPR, injectors? I just want to know what is absolutely necessary to run safely at low boost for the initial set up so I can more accurately plan my budget.

P.S. I've already ordered a wideband as well.

[seth98esT]

Just go stock rewired pump with DSM 450cc injectors if you are only going to run 8psi on a 14b. A Walbro 190 would be more then enough.

[laxinwarrior]

Its a 16G and i'll be running at 5psi(custom actuator), still think a rewired stocker and 450's will work?

[4-G-rim]

better to learn from the mistakes you make on the expendable motor, than ruin a perfectly good one.

Thats a smart man talking right there. 8)

I went ahead turbo'ing the SOHC 4G64 because I didn't want to go big and do something wrong or stupid any "noob" would do. Since this was my first "turbo" car, it was my learning medium hands on. I had the car turbo for a year and I learned alot and when I bought my Galant VR4, I was able to understand some of the problems it had and also I learned more about a turbo car. Its almost like a person that buys their first turbo cars....then get to crazy w/o really understanding the workings of a turbo car and BOOM!!!

[Sleepervr-4]

sohc turbo baby :D I would do like said above and turbo your sohc and learn on that motor about tuneing and other stuff. Then when you are done with the noob stage drop that dohc in.

[4-G-rim]

Don't think a turbo SOHC is weak sauce. Its weakness is probably its top end..but at that it still has balls. I was able to hang with stock 4.6L Mustangs, Stock SRT-4's, stock to very lightly modded DSM's, etc etc. I never got a chance to take mine to the track...but I would ASSUME a turbo SOHC 4G64 is probably a low/mid 14 sec 1/4 car.

[Joaltava]

better to learn from the mistakes you make on the expendable motor, than ruin a perfectly good one.

Thats a smart man talking right there. 8)

I went ahead turbo'ing the SOHC 4G64 because I didn't want to go big and do something wrong or stupid any "noob" would do. Since this was my first "turbo" car, it was my learning medium hands on. I had the car turbo for a year and I learned alot and when I bought my Galant VR4, I was able to understand some of the problems it had and also I learned more about a turbo car. Its almost like a person that buys their first turbo cars....then get to crazy w/o really understanding the workings of a turbo car and BOOM!!!

What about me, i have a DOHC and i need some practice before i build my engine up too, but it will be a little bit more work to boost my GS engine

[4-G-rim]

You can still slap on a turbo on your GS. The key is to start off small...take baby steps. Unless you have $$$ and time to throw away...this would be the smart thing to do. Trust me...5-8lbs of boost on a DOHC 4G64 will hold its ground pretty well. :twisted:

[Joaltava]

You can still slap on a turbo on your GS. The key is to start off small...take baby steps. Unless you have $$$ and time to throw away...this would be the smart thing to do. Trust me...5-8lbs of boost on a DOHC 4G64 will hold its ground pretty well. :twisted:

Well i was planning on starting with a small 16g or a 14b and do somewhere around 7lbs of boost and gain experience while i build the 64 block

[laxinwarrior]

You can still slap on a turbo on your GS. The key is to start off small...take baby steps. Unless you have $$$ and time to throw away...this would be the smart thing to do. Trust me...5-8lbs of boost on a DOHC 4G64 will hold its ground pretty well. :twisted:

Well i was planning on starting with a small 16g or a 14b and do somewhere around 7lbs of boost and gain experience while i build the 64 block

Jackin my thread :smt018
just messin dude ... it's all good info and please keep it flowing, I can use as much as possible :D

[kolio]

i plan on boosting my sohc with a 14b and 10lbs of boost. these engines are sooooooooo cheap around here, even if i blow it i will learn and fix it cheap :wink:

one of my other projects is a 6 bolt!


from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

A 4G64 DOHC will own so many cars, it's not funny.

[Joaltava]

i know a DOHC 64 will own alot of cars thats one of the reasons i want to turbo her but what get me the most worried and what most people with no experience gets them worried is the dealing with the compression ratio, i know my baby has high compression which means i have to have her tuned correctly

[da1085]

what is the compresion of our sohc 64??

i think ill be boosting the 7g first before i dive into the gsx....ill just use the stock gsx parts into the 7g then buy a complete motor and trans for the gsx.....

[Joaltava]

what is the compresion of our sohc 64??

i think ill be boosting the 7g first before i dive into the gsx....ill just use the stock gsx parts into the 7g then buy a complete motor and trans for the gsx.....

im not that sure but i know my GS has somewhere is the 10-2-1 or something like that i know its in the 10's for the GS

[DOHCstunr]

the only real issue witht he gs is the stock timming map.

it has a knock sensor for timming advance, but the advance is based on n/a timing.

typically n/a is going to get a great deal more timing advance under load, with good fuel.

if you want a sure fire way to keep knock at bay, and still run a crapload of boost,

water injection, is a cheap, and effective way to suppress predetonation.

the mist from water injection will cool your post intercooler charge temps dramatically, this will let you run more boost on pump gas w/o knock.
side effect of water injection...
the vapor literally scrubs your intkae manifold, you pistons, you would never believe how clean an enigne with h2o spray is on the insides. even a 200k+ mile engine will look brand new upon dissasembly.


aside from that, with a little caution, research, and a skillful tune...
you coudl have one sweet ass setup.

its all in the tune though,
slowboy was doing some turbo trials last year, basically giving you a dyno readout for every turbo they coudl come up with, on the same motor.
what was the motor?
a 2.1l destroker... with 10:1 compression
they were running turbo's to 30 psi with it.

so don't be skuuuuurd 8)

[Sleepervr-4]

from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

8) ftw she won the last race we ran about 2 weeks ago

[Joaltava]

the only real issue witht he gs is the stock timming map.

it has a knock sensor for timming advance, but the advance is based on n/a timing.

typically n/a is going to get a great deal more timing advance under load, with good fuel.

if you want a sure fire way to keep knock at bay, and still run a crapload of boost,

water injection, is a cheap, and effective way to suppress predetonation.

the mist from water injection will cool your post intercooler charge temps dramatically, this will let you run more boost on pump gas w/o knock.
side effect of water injection...
the vapor literally scrubs your intkae manifold, you pistons, you would never believe how clean an enigne with h2o spray is on the insides. even a 200k+ mile engine will look brand new upon dissasembly.


aside from that, with a little caution, research, and a skillful tune...
you coudl have one sweet ass setup.

its all in the tune though,
slowboy was doing some turbo trials last year, basically giving you a dyno readout for every turbo they coudl come up with, on the same motor.
what was the motor?
a 2.1l destroker... with 10:1 compression
they were running turbo's to 30 psi with it.

so don't be skuuuuurd 8)

damn dude you know how to make a man cry, i love what you just said, now i know that the sky is the limit with my GS, i have so much to learn to remotely get anywhere near the amount of knowledge you have on the 7g's and turbo set ups. Thank you for that huge boost of confidence you just have just given to any person that has a 7g and wants to boost it.

One last question?

What turbo should i start out with, a 16g evo 16g 14b or something bigger?

[kolio]

14b can be found for under $100 and can boost up to like 20 psi

16g's are a little more expensive but boost more, and they have bigger lag time.( not that much slower than a 14b)

on the dohc 64 you can even go evo 16G, thats how beastly it is!

if you just want to keep cost down, get a 14b, you can change to 16g without modification.

[4g63lover]

i plan on boosting my sohc with a 14b and 10lbs of boost. these engines are sooooooooo cheap around here, even if i blow it i will learn and fix it cheap :wink:

one of my other projects is a 6 bolt!


from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

A 4G64 DOHC will own so many cars, it's not funny.

you talking about sleeper and spicy?

[seth98esT]

14b can be found for under $100 and can boost up to like 20 psi

16g's are a little more expensive but boost more, and they have bigger lag time.( not that much slower than a 14b)

on the dohc 64 you can even go evo 16G, thats how beastly it is!

if you just want to keep cost down, get a 14b, you can change to 16g without modification.
I think your confused. Evo3 16g isnt a big turbo by any means :P

You could run the biggest turbo in the world on a stock SOHC 7g, it just wouldnt be efficient and you probably couldnt spool it at all. Its not the size of the turbo that the motor is limitted to, its all in the tune, how much boost you run, and fuel.

[da1085]

every time the turbo subject comes up i learn alot since every time there is something new......

now i was wondering can you run a turbo set up with out having anykind of a/f controler(safc or something)?

also what down pipe can we use(90 gsx pipe?) posibly?

finaly which 3 guages are mandetory(my guess boost, oil presure, a/f ratio)? EGT is kinda pricy is it really needed?

[Sleepervr-4]

now i was wondering can you run a turbo set up with out having anykind of a/f controler(safc or something)?

No because you would never get it to idle with the bigger injectors


also what down pipe can we use(90 gsx pipe?) posibly?

2g gst downpipe is the one we use


finaly which 3 guages are mandetory(my guess boost, oil presure, a/f ratio)? EGT is kinda pricy is it really needed?

vac/boost, egt at minimum. Egt is a must because you don't have a knock sensor so you need something to tell you how the engine is doing. If funds permit get a wideband a/f controller with a guage.

[Sleepervr-4]

i plan on boosting my sohc with a 14b and 10lbs of boost. these engines are sooooooooo cheap around here, even if i blow it i will learn and fix it cheap :wink:

one of my other projects is a 6 bolt!


from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

A 4G64 DOHC will own so many cars, it's not funny.

you talking about sleeper and spicy?

He was but she took the win on the last one we ran like 2 weeks ago. btw info travels pretty fast :lol: .

[Sleepervr-4]

14b can be found for under $100 and can boost up to like 20 psi

16g's are a little more expensive but boost more, and they have bigger lag time.( not that much slower than a 14b)

on the dohc 64 you can even go evo 16G, thats how beastly it is!

if you just want to keep cost down, get a 14b, you can change to 16g without modification.

They all spool the about same because they have the same turbine housing (TD05) If you want a slower spool you need a (TD06) housing turbo like a 20g :wink:

[seth98esT]

Yah, Id run a 30/30 vac/boost gauge and an EGT gauge at minimum. Do not waste your time with a narrowband A/F gauge, only go wideband A/F(Zeitronix, AEM Eugo, ect).

As for no fuel control, you could do it, but it wouldnt be fun or safe, and gains wouldnt be near what they would be if you did have a fuel management system.

If anything, at least get an older SAFC.

[SpicyGalant]

from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

8) ftw she won the last race we ran about 2 weeks ago

i heard that a certain person with an auto evo swapped 8g beat a person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7g, a turbo 6spd maxima 3.5L, and an integra boosted - if u wanna see this auto galevo lose.. come to the race against the blue supra running 40psi... at an expressway near u

[SpicyGalant]

i plan on boosting my sohc with a 14b and 10lbs of boost. these engines are sooooooooo cheap around here, even if i blow it i will learn and fix it cheap :wink:

one of my other projects is a 6 bolt!


from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

A 4G64 DOHC will own so many cars, it's not funny.

you talking about sleeper and spicy?

He was but she took the win on the last one we ran like 2 weeks ago. btw info travels pretty fast :lol: .

yea my first run - i had a slipping tranny and about 10psi... who runs 10psi on an evo motor :roll:
someone challenged me.. i said no - but said alright.. lets see how i do now and how i do after i do minor tranny work... sleeper got me

2 weeks later... lets go 'one more again'.. tranny fixed... boost turned up a little - maybe it wasn't tuned right cuz after 3 wins.. the 4th run had me breaking up under boost due to fouled out plugs - nevertheless... i got it -

i need to still get some tranny work done.. that way i can run the boost of wat an evo motor should be running or more... but in time.. im not tryna break anything just yet..lol

we already discussed... videos will be taken - that way tgc can view fellow members on the road rather than in pictures.. i like the idea..what do y'all think

[laxinwarrior]

i plan on boosting my sohc with a 14b and 10lbs of boost. these engines are sooooooooo cheap around here, even if i blow it i will learn and fix it cheap :wink:

one of my other projects is a 6 bolt!


from what i have heard, a certain person with a turbo sohc 5spd 7G, beat an auto evo swapped 8G.

A 4G64 DOHC will own so many cars, it's not funny.

you talking about sleeper and spicy?

He was but she took the win on the last one we ran like 2 weeks ago. btw info travels pretty fast :lol: .

yea my first run - i had a slipping tranny and about 10psi... who runs 10psi on an evo motor :roll:
someone challenged me.. i said no - but said alright.. lets see how i do now and how i do after i do minor tranny work... sleeper got me

2 weeks later... lets go 'one more again'.. tranny fixed... boost turned up a little - maybe it wasn't tuned right cuz after 3 wins.. the 4th run had me breaking up under boost due to fouled out plugs - nevertheless... i got it -

i need to still get some tranny work done.. that way i can run the boost of wat an evo motor should be running or more... but in time.. im not tryna break anything just yet..lol

we already discussed... videos will be taken - that way tgc can view fellow members on the road rather than in pictures.. i like the idea..what do y'all think

Pics are decent, vids would be nice ... but I think you should come pick me up and give me a ride so I can feel the beast 8) (actually that applies to anyone with a turbo galant.) :P

[bronxbombr]

Well i should be boosted in a few weeks so i guess you will see it first hand.

[jkupp2000]

turbo!!!!

[laxinwarrior]

^^ Stop post whoring my thread. :evil:

... Anyway, i've decided that I will be going turbo. Now I just want to see what all I am forgetting in my list of items needed to have the swap go smoothly.
I already have the manifold, o2 housing, fmic, 450cc injectors, gm maft, adjustable fpr, wideband o2 sensor, and all necessary gauges. I am in the process of getting a turbo so i'm not worried about that.
I know that I will need all new gaskets, oil and water lines, custom IC piping and a custom downpipe along with either a 2g oil pan or drilling my stock one. Is there anything else that I am overlooking?
Input would be greatly appreciated especially from those of you that have turboed your g's already.

[phizzalot]

Well I haven't turboed yet, but Some things you may want to consider is using a 2g eclipse turbo downpipe. That will fit with a turbo setup from a stock eclipse.

Didn't see what type of engine mgmt you were using but don't forget about that like safc2, maf t, etc.

good luck on your turbo build otherwise...

[bmxmike]

On the oil i belive you can run a sandwhich adapter if you wish....Another thing is if you dont want to sit with your car buy a turbo timer....Will make the turbo last a little longer....Caking oil is a bitch!....It looks like you pretty much got it down....And you may want to get either a bigger fuel pump or do the pump rewire....Just to make sure you have the fuel you need....Good luck!

[laxinwarrior]

Good looking out, I forgot to mention that I already rewired the fuel pump. Thanks for the quick responses.

[Crim]

I know it has been a couple of days, but I have two quick questions. One, could you use the knock sensor off of an eclipse, and two, did someone already make a list or could someone make a list of the necessary parts for an sohc turbo build? Thanks

[Johnathansgalant]

if u dont have a knock sensor ur ecu wont recognize the sensor because it doesnt have a pin for it and or its not looking for it in its programming.. If u change ur ecu then yes.. i guess u guys use turbo eclipses ecus or something???

[Crim]

yeah we use turbo eclipse ecu's so i was assuming that we would need the knock sensor, but i don't really know.

[laxinwarrior]

Unless you have a 94 GS, you will need to swap to a 63 head in order to use the eclipse ecu. The galant ecu doesn't have any use for a knock sensor so unless you go with a standalone or some form of aftermarket knock monitoring system, you're SOL. As far as a parts list .... search can be your friend. Now to get back on topic, anyone else have some insight on my previous questions?

[Crim]

to stay on topic, be careful with the custom downpipe, you can run into problems fitting up to the catalytic converter. Also you have to watch out for the flex pipe and o2 sensor placement. You may have to pull the wiring out from the o2 sensor plug from the car so it will reach. And definitely make sure you plug it in, because otherwise you be running a check engine light, and unless you want to scan for codes all the time, you may not know your engine is in trouble. But thats obvious i guess. So anyway, if the turbo ecu from an eclipse needs a knock sensor, and for that you need to swap the head, what are you doing to make the sohc turbo if you won't have a knock sensor? What would you get for a standalone one, and would it work as well?

[laxinwarrior]

For now i'm not going to be using any knock control because I will not be tuning for max power. Just a stockish 8 psi for the time being. I will be running a wideband o2 in conjunction with the maft so that I can utilize the wideband tracking feature. (Corrects the a/f ratio in realtime to a preset # at WOT) The wideband I have also has a selectable narrowband switching point so I can set the a/f ratio under other conditions as well. So for the short term future that I will be SOHC and turbo I won't crank up the boost and I will have it dyno tuned after the install so I hopefully won't run into any problems with knock. :?

[DOHCstunr]

to stay on topic, be careful with the custom downpipe, you can run into problems fitting up to the catalytic converter. Also you have to watch out for the flex pipe and o2 sensor placement. You may have to pull the wiring out from the o2 sensor plug from the car so it will reach. And definitely make sure you plug it in, because otherwise you be running a check engine light, and unless you want to scan for codes all the time, you may not know your engine is in trouble. But thats obvious i guess. ?

unless you are blind, careless and have an exhaust shop in your garage.....
this won't be an issue....
any guy who has worked at an exhaust shop for half a day can put a bung where its needed.
or cut a pipe to the proper length.

not to mention ebay sells pretty damn high quality downpipes. bolt it on and done.
perfect robotic welds, thick! polished double wall stainless, and thick 1/2 flanges(won't warp on you)... and did i mention perfect.... PERFECT fittament, for about 100 bucks shipped.

[seth98esT]

My $120 eBay downpipe has lasted 3 years running. Money well spent.

[DOHCstunr]

My $120 eBay downpipe has lasted 3 years running. Money well spent.
x2

[laxinwarrior]

Well it's getting close to that time. :) I just received my small 16g with manifold and ported o2 housing today :twisted: Did I mention I love ebay ... 185 shipped for the whole package. I'm starting to get real pumped, now all I need is to get some IC piping and vacuum hose and oil and coolant lines. By the way where is the best place to tap for the water feed and return since I can't seem to recall that info? I will try to get some pics up soon of all the parts and then update the thread again after I start the install.

[milo111000]

nice please post pics next time!! can't wait to see it

[laxinwarrior]

Sorry I haven't been around for some time, I had a family emergency that had me up in new york for the past few days. I should be able to get pics and have them posted tomorrow of a good portion of my setup. One more question ... If I disconnect the wastegate on the turbo, will that keep me from boosting at all or will it just minimize the boost until the exhaust flow overcomes the amount the flapper can flow( i'm assuming that would only happen at WOT or or high rpm driving) ? And again to anyone that has turboed a 7G, where did you tap for the coolant lines and where would be recommended?

[DOHCstunr]

Sorry I haven't been around for some time, I had a family emergency that had me up in new york for the past few days. I should be able to get pics and have them posted tomorrow of a good portion of my setup. One more question ... If I disconnect the wastegate on the turbo, will that keep me from boosting at all or will it just minimize the boost until the exhaust flow overcomes the amount the flapper can flow( i'm assuming that would only happen at WOT or or high rpm driving) ? And again to anyone that has turboed a 7G, where did you tap for the coolant lines and where would be recommended?

easest way is to take one of the hoses that goes to the throttle body, send it to the turbo, then back ot the throttle body.

or you coudl get the one that comes from the throttle body, send it to the turbo, and back to the thermostat housing.

[mtcavity1]

36 inch long SS braided coolant line for turbo.

I have 2 fittings for each end, both with a 1/8in NPT thread (I have the tap for 1/8 NPT if need be)

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z274/mtcavity/HPIM1319.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z274/mtcavity/HPIM1318.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z274/mtcavity/HPIM1317.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z274/mtcavity/HPIM1316.jpg

I think it is the feed line but not sure, it really does not matter because it is a different engine.

I know they have some funky adaptors for coolant temp with 1/8 NPT threading.

Will this work for a feed or return line for your system? I have a nice pile of miscellaneous turbo stuff (1”-1 ¼-1 ½ inch piping for coolant or small wastegate plumbing, hoses, GOOD quality clamps from NAPA, IC piping-black and a few “if we need to” intercooler couplers). I have some extra O2 sensor bungs if you want an optional wideband port (cap them when not in use).

Think of all the weird shit you think you might need yet…

[laxinwarrior]

Well I promised some pics of my setup so here you go.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/DSCF2207.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/DSCF2206.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/DSCF2205.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/DSCF2204.jpg


This isnt everything, some are already installed and some are still on the way or need to be bought. Or I just got lazy and didn't feel like looking for them. :roll: The box on the bottom is the 3" exhaust kit from vrs( 3 inches is F'ing huge by the way :twisted: )

mtcavity1 i'll send you a pm about all of that stuff and see if we can work something out.

[glantv699]

:smt023

[bronxbombr]

nice!!

[lonestar22]

that is a tiny turbo. what kind is it?

[seth98esT]

Looks like a big 16g.

[laxinwarrior]

Close Seth, small 16g but it's plenty for what I have going on.

[seth98esT]

I didnt know the Small 16gs have the duel fin compressor wheels. I thought the small and regular 16s had single(like the 14bs) and the Big and Evo3 16gs had the duel fin compressor wheels.

Where did you buy it from? What is stamped on the exhaust housing?

[qnz]

hard to see the serial. it got obliterated

[laxinwarrior]

I actually found it on ebay so i'm not positive on what it is exactly, I was told that it was a small 16g. I'll go and check it out in the morning since I just put it away.

[seth98esT]

If its stock and it has a 6cm^2 exhaust housing, its probably a Small 16g. If it has a 7cm^2 exhaust housing, its a big 16g.

[frag_daddy_2007]

looks like a small 16g with a swapped comp wheel to me
the compressor housing is way too small to ge a big 16g

[laxinwarrior]

The second half of the serial is 0520 its just impossible to see in that pic, so it is a small 16g.

[laxinwarrior]

Well ladies and gents, the G just went under the knife today so heres a few pics of the front end and intercooler installed. :twisted:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMAG0136.jpg


http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMAG0137.jpg


Pay no attention to the dates on the pics, my mom doesn't know how to set up her camera and I was too lazy to fix it.

[laxinwarrior]

Well I feel like a noob ... three posts in a row. Anyways I figured I would give another update. As of now the intercooler is mounted and the G is gutted of the entire stock exhaust system and the 3" exhaust is starting to look pretty badass. Hopefully I will have the exhaust finished and the turbo installed and the oil and water lines plumbed by the end of the day tomorrow. Wish me luck. :twisted:

[glantv699]

I can hear it now.....PSSSSH

good stuff Joe, keep the pics comin, or maybe I'll just come see it in person. 8)

[laxinwarrior]

Ok here's a few pics from when I was test fitting the turbo.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMAG0138.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMAG0139.jpg

I'll post more pics tomorrow of everything actually installed cuz i'm f'in beat right now.

[DOHCstunr]

make sure you use all new exhaust gaskets. for every single exhaust gasket.
make sure you get out a torque wrench and torque every exhaust bolt to spec.
make sure you use ultra high temp antiseize on all your turbo and exhaust bolts.
and, make sure you chase the threads of yoru turbo with a tap (to clean them up) before you install yoru turbo bolts.
because any leak will rob and i mean ROB you of power. overtorqued turbo bolts will SNAP, ESPECIALLY those ARP bolts you are using(becuase those don't stretch to accomidate the expanding manifodl and turbo from the 1500* plus heat)i broke all 4 of my arp bolts back in the day.

also, bolts that are undertorqued will back out and dissapear. which sucks.
ask seth about any of my 100 random exhaust leak problems. from bolts to cracked manifolds to blown gaskets to broken studs.
every one of them will kill your spool and hijack yoru top end.

and i know you are on a budget....
but i HIGHLY HIGLY reccomend buying from slowboy a set of OEM head to manifold Studs, nuts, and washers.
DO NOT BUY a stainless steel stud kit.(i broke 5 studs in two weaks, even with them being torqued to spec.)
just get the oem stud kit. you probably didn't know this but those nuts on yoru exhaust studs in your pictures... are made of pure copper!
yours look pretty sad.


you want to know more, just ask.
otherwise, you cna be like me and spend a lot of money learing from your own mistakes.

keep up the good work :wink:

[seth98esT]

Yes exhaust leaks suck. I have never broken a turbo bolt or exhaust stud but I am using a stock turbo and Evo3 manifold(stock flange thickness/weight). I use anti-seize on my stock turbo bolts and never have broken one. And my exhaust studs never break because I never remove my manifold(except once).

But like John said, be sure to use new gaskets between the manifold and head, o2 housing and downpipe, and cat/downpipe/catback or else you will be annoyed by boost leaks!

Your off to a good start though, keep it up!

[phizzalot]

wow that looks really good so far.. Can't wait to see how you do the intercooler piping and engine mgmt :)

Anyways keep up the good work and good luck with the install...

[4-G-rim]

Looking good on the install. Like what Seth and John stated...use all new gaskets and high temp anti seize. I recommend GM antiseize...they have a heat tolerance of 2500 degrees.

[DOHCstunr]

I recommend GM antiseize...they have a heat tolerance of 2500 degrees.
wow thanks for the tip

[laxinwarrior]

Ok well the good news is all the major work is finished, the bad news is I'm just too beat to try and start her up tonight so that will have to wait for tomorrow. Pics will follow once all is said and done, and maybe if I meet up with a couple people there might be a vid too but no promises.

[Galant Kid]

Ok well the good news is all the major work is finished, the bad news is I'm just too beat to try and start her up tonight so that will have to wait for tomorrow. Pics will follow once all is said and done, and maybe if I meet up with a couple people there might be a vid too but no promises.

Congrats! Take a well deserved rest, crack open a can of your favourite beverage, and have at it tomorrow!

[glantv699]

oh man is it pretty.....from today:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/gdd23/IMG_3596.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/gdd23/IMG_3598.jpg

[laxinwarrior]

AND SHE LIVES ... Started up on the first try and has been running like a champ since. I'll go through all the pics I have and probably post them later.

[glantv699]

AND SHE LIVES ... Started up on the first try and has been running like a champ since. I'll go through all the pics I have and probably post them later.

I wasn't gonna spill the news so I'm glad you finally did lol. Man that was sweet, turn the key, boom, starts right up. Congratulations Joe, from here on out it's just a few additions, tuning, and that thing we all love (but only a select few know), BOOST.

[Halon]

Awesome! Almost exactly what I plan on doing to mine.

Just to clear up some of the confusion and misinformation I've seen in here about these turbos, all 16g's have those dual fin appearing compressor wheels. Small, Big, Evo3, ALL of them have that. Also ALL of them have 7cm2 exhaust housings. 14b's came with the "non-dual fin" appearing compressor wheel, and came with 6cm2 exhaust housings. If you have a 16g with a 6cm2 exhaust housing, then someone swapped that on there. Also that is the stock compressor housing on there. Not too small, not too large, just right :) Calling it a tiny turbo is relative really. A 16g is a great street turbo with quick spool, and packs a nice little punch for a street driven car. I wouldn't call it a tiny turbo, especially on a basic setup like he has here. We have a local pushing 300hp on his 16g on a 4g63.

Also someone had asked if simply not hooking up the wastegate would make you not boost. The answer is no, it will actually do the exact opposite. The waste gate will not open, and all exhaust gas will go through the turbine wheel, and it will boost as high as it possibly can.

Definately a great budget build you have going there!

[laxinwarrior]

Good info and thanks for helping out, but I am going to disagree about the wastegate. I have actually checked with my car running and the flapper stays open constantly with the actuator disconnected. Maybe you misunderstood and thought I meant not connecting the vacuum line because then you would be right about it staying closed. If you have any questions about anything feel free to pm me and good luck with your setup. :D

[Halon]

I did misunderstand you. I thought you meant leaving the vacuum line disconnected, not actually disconnecting the actuator arm. Sorry for the confusion.

And I appreciate the offer for help. I'm kind of the 'figure it out on my own' type, but sometimes that involves asking questions. The turbo setup on my Galant won't be done for a little while as I have my hands full with my Talon for now. But it will get done... eventually.

[seth98esT]

Ive gotten 1psi once without my wastegate accuator arm connected. It was slow! lolz.

[laxinwarrior]

Yeah I still don't know how much i'm boosting at the moment, most of the time I drive I don't even push it enough to get into the boost but it still pulls a lot stronger than when I was NA.

[4-G-rim]

Get a boost gauge...even those "Faze" gauges from Autozone will do. Its good that you aren't getting on the car, but its always good to know what max boost you are at.

How are you liking the feel that forced induction gives you? I bet you are enjoying it..just be careful, there are times when you get that "itch" to open the car up. :twisted:

[laxinwarrior]

Yeah boost gauge is on the way shortly but I might just get a cheap ass one for the time being. It's definitely hard having the discipline to not stomp the gas but I really want to wait til I have my wideband installed and can get it tuned in right. :evil:

[seth98esT]

Autozone should carry an Autometer boost gauge.

[laxinwarrior]

Autometer Boost Gauge installed, the highest i've seen so far is 3 PSI and I refuse to push it any harder until everything is tuned in properly.

[DOHCstunr]

polish/ clean your intercooler!!!!!!!!!!!!!

engine bay pics or ban

[laxinwarrior]

Not the best pics but I'll probably go snap some more tomorrow during the day.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMG_3588.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMG_3597.jpg

And here's a little clip of how the exhaust sounds for now.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/th_MVI_3619.jpg (http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/?action=view&current=MVI_3619.flv)

[mitgalantes]

looks bad ass keep up the good work

[DOHCstunr]

tips:
>don't run any plumbing over the charge pipes(most people are looking souly for the turbo components when they see your bay, so these things take away from your main attractions.)
>your bov line..... run it under the intake manifold so its completely out of site. either drop it through a gap between the runners, or go completely under the manni so this line totally dissapears.

> your breather line.... drop it straight down from the nipple. send it straight down to right next to the axle boot or differential.

> get a BRAND NEW OEM pcv valve. the pcv holding a proper seal under boost will decrease blow by, as well as a massive boost leak. this will give you better spool and more top end.

>run the throttle cable under the upper charge pipe.

>your radiator ovefclow hose is out of control.
run it under the upper radiator hose, and use the hose guides built into the radiator.

> your t-bolt clamps,
turn them so that on top is jsut smooth metal, and the actualy bolt is underneath out of plain site. will give a nice clean look.


not criticising,
just throwing some helpful tips yoru way to clean up that engine bay.

congrats

[4g64terror]

so post up a list of your complete setup,,,im am interested in the exact fueling you used..PM me if u want

[seth98esT]

Looks solid, needs some cleaning up though :)

John posted some good tips :)

[galant3333]

i like the set up but u can work on getting more pictures. my galant has a t-25 tubro rite now, im goin wit the big 16g turbo to soo ill be posting some pictures if you guys need them.

[laxinwarrior]

i like the set up but u can work on getting more pictures. my galant has a t-25 tubro rite now, im goin wit the big 16g turbo to soo ill be posting some pictures if you guys need them.


What??

Why would you want more pictures of my setup if you already have a turbo galant? :roll:

[laxinwarrior]

Update:

FINALLY got my injectors installed, so i'm finally running rich, so I can finally get on the boost, so I finally hit 8psi ......... Holy Mother of God I can't even describe it right now. I can't wait until I get this baby tuned in properly. :twisted:

EDIT: A quick compilation of a few runs made today with the help of glantv699.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/th_1996GalantSTurbo.jpg (http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/?action=view&current=1996GalantSTurbo.flv)

[glantv699]

this car moves boys and girls...
congrats again Joe

one day, I'll get a real camera

[mtcavity1]

That is T-I-T-S!

BIG ones too... :smt023

[bmore303]

Nice setup. Exactly what I've been researching too. :mrgreen:


The only thing stopping me from beginning my collection of parts is exactly how the IC piping is setup. Looks like a series of 90deg and straight aluminum pipes with couplers for the upper. What about the lower?

[laxinwarrior]

I have the J-pipe to a 90* coupler to a 60*(i think) aluminum pipe to another 90*coupler into the intercooler. It was actually really simple and straightforward. No matter what you do get the BEST quality couplers, they are ridiculously expensive but well worth it.

[seth98esT]

For the lower IC piping I used the Dejon Tool j-pipe which is almost a 180, to a 90* pipe to another 90* pipe to a third 90* pipe. For the uppder I used the stock tb elbow off a 1g, a 45* to another 45* to a 90* to the FMIC. All straight couplers, bends are all in the pipes.

[bmore303]

Oh nice. I think I'll pull some parts out the engine bay...take a few pics and sketch a rough diagram of the different setups when I get time.

Thanks Lax and Seth 8) .

[laxinwarrior]

No prob man. Anything to help out a fellow TGCer. :wink:

[laxinwarrior]

Well I should hopefully be getting to the dyno sometime in the next week to get tuned. It's going to be interesting to see how much power I gained. Here is my dyno sheet from when I was n/a with CAI only. Anyone have any predictions?

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/scan001001.jpg

[seth98esT]

How much boost?

[kolio]

were you 5 spd at the time of the dyno or auto?

kind of helps me on what i expect to dyno Sat

[laxinwarrior]

Seth - i'll be running a stock wastegate so around 8ish but i've seen spikes up to 10-12

Kolio - I was 5 spd when I got dynoed before.

[seth98esT]

Id say 218.5whp 238.9ftlbs :)

[laxinwarrior]

I like that prediction, I was thinking I would be just shy of 200whp.

[laxinwarrior]

Well as some of you guys know I was having a high rpm misfire for the past couple days .... well went to start it up last night and it was running like shit so I went out and pulled the plugs this morning and well the plug from cylinder #2 was fucked. The insulator was cracked off from way down in the base and the electrodes are pretty messed up too. Anyways I doubt I will be getting to the dyno anytime soon but it might be a nice time to go for the DOHC swap. :?

P.S. I have pictures of the plugs but my computer is being gay and won't let me upload them so i'll try to get them up sometime soon.

Edit - Compression test: cyl 1 195, cyl 2 175 cyl 3 180 cyl 4 205

I might have jumped the gun a little bit but i'm still burning oil like crazy even at idle so im thinking it might be valve guides/seals from when the timing belt went out on me.

[laxinwarrior]

Ok well I will be replacing the valve seals shortly but it seems even more evident at this point that I blew out the turbo's oil seals. While that is an easy enough fix, it gets expensive when you factor in the reassembly and balancing. I have been throwing around the idea of upgrading turbos instead so i'm looking for some opinions on which way to go. My overall goal is to have a completely streetable built 4g64 DOHC for which i'm already collecting parts. I was thinking about something along the lines of a 20g but I would want something that would be able to spool relatively early since I don't want to have to rev the engine up past 7500-8000 max. How much of an advantage would a dual ball bearing turbo have on spool times since I haven't been able to find any numbers in my research? Basically if someone like seth or john that knows turbos pretty well could just give me a basic comparison of a 20g and a gt30r that would give me a solid idea on what i'm looking for.

[DOHCstunr]

as lng as you have the tdo5h 20g and not the tdo6 or tdo6h.... you will have a very usable turbo.

the 6 has a larger wheel and in turn moves the power up the band.

[seth98esT]

On a built 4g64, what kind of boost are you looking to run? 18-25psi?

[laxinwarrior]

Yeah most likely no more than 20-25 ... maybe 30 on race gas if i ever take it to the track. (can we say dual stage boost controller...)

[seth98esT]

Copying a post I made way back when, just adding the 20g and GT30R at 20psi, 25psi, and 30psi.


OK here goes:

Engine Volumetric Flow Equation
VAF(Volume Air Flow in cu. ft/min) = (Enging RPM x engine cid) / (1728 x 2)

So in a 2.4L

VAF = (6200 x 146.458) / 3456 = 262cfm

Ideal Gas Law/Mass Air Flow
The Ideal Gas Law is a handy equation to have. It relates the air pressure, temperature, volume, and mass (ie, pounds) of air. If you know any three of these, you can calculate the fourth. The equation is written:

P(absolute pressure) V(volume) = n(related to the number of air molecules, which is an indication of the mass (or pounds) of air) R(constant number) T(absolute temp)

Lets assume that we are at sea level.

20psi of boost(psig) = 34.7psia(14.7+20)
25psi of boost(psig) = 39.7psia(14.7+25)
30psi of boost(psig) = 44.7psia(14.7+30)

The absolute temperature is the temperature in degrees F plus 460. This gives degrees Rankine, or deg R. If it is 80 deg F outside, the absolute temperature is 80 + 460 = 540 deg R.

n(lbs/min)= P(psia) x V(cu.ft./min) x 29 / (10.73 x T(deg R))

Lets say you are running an intercooled setup and temps in the intake manifold are 130F and you are still running 20lbs, 25lbs, or 30lbs of boost:

Absolute temperature = 130 deg F + 460 = 590 deg R
Absolute pressure =
20 psig + 14.7 = 34.7 psia
25psig + 14.7 = 39.7 psia
30psig + 14.7 = 44.7 psia

For 20psi:
n(lbs/min)= (34.7 psia x 262 cfm x 29) / (10.73 x 590 deg R) = 41.65 lbs of air per minute (ideal)

lbs air per minute actual = 41.65 x 0.85 = 35.4 lbs air/minute

For 25psi:
n(lbs/min)= (39.7 psia x 262 cfm x 29) / (10.73 x 590 deg R) = 47.65 lbs of air per minute (ideal)

lbs air per minute actual = 47.65 x 0.85 = 40.50 lbs air/minute

For 30psi:
n(lbs/min)= (44.7 psia x 262 cfm x 29) / (10.73 x 590 deg R) = 51.80 lbs of air per minute (ideal)

lbs air per minute actual = 51.80 x 0.85 = 44.03 lbs air/minute


Volumetric Efficiency
If life was perfect, we could fill the cylinders completely with air. If we had 17 psi boost in the intake manifold, we would open the intake valve and get 17 psi in the cylinder before the intake valve closed. Unfortunately, this doesn't usually happen. With some exhaust remaining in the cylinder and the restriction offered by the intake ports and valves the actual amount of air that flows into the cylinder is somewhat less than ideal. The amount that does flow divided by the ideal amount is called the volumetric efficiency.

To take this into account when we calculate flow into the engine, we multiply the ideal amount of air by the efficiency to get the actual amount of air:

actual air flow = ideal air flow x volumetric efficiency

Now the lower your FMIC/cooling system can cool the air by the time it hits the intake manifold, the more lbs air/min you will move. So an intercooled turbo setup vs a non-intercooled setup will vary greatly!

Compressor
The compressor is the part of the turbocharger that compresses air and pumps it into the intake manifold. Air molecules get sucked into the rapidly spinning compressor blades and get flung out to the outside edge. When this happens, the air molecules get stacked up and forced together. This increases their pressure.

It takes power to do this. This power comes from the exhaust side of the turbo, called the Turbine. Not all of the power that comes from the turbine goes into building pressure. Some of the power is used up in heating up the air. This is because we lowly humans cannot build a perfect machine. If we could, all of the power would go into building pressure. Instead, because of the design of the compressor, the air molecules get "beat up", and this results in heat. Just like rubbing your hands together will warm your hands due to the friction between your hands, the friction between the compressor and the air and between the air molecules themselves will heat up the air.

If you divide the amount of power that goes into building pressure by the total power put into the compressor, you get the efficiency of the compressor.

For example, if the compressor is 70% efficient, this means that 70% of the power put into the compressor is used in building air pressure. The other 30% of the power is used heating up the air. That is why we like high efficiency compressors; more of the power is being used on building pressure and less is used heating up the air. You want to be in the 65% and higher efficiency range.

How to read a compression map(that I posted above)
Figure out the pounds of air that you are moving through the engine. We are passing 29.77 lbs/min of air, at inlet conditions of -0.5 psig and 70 deg F. Now correct that flow to the standard temperature and pressure.

Corrected flow = (actual flow x (Tin/545)0.5) / (Pin/13.949)

The standard temperature is 545 deg R, or 545 - 460 = 85 deg F.

o we are correcting the flow from 70 deg F and -0.5 psig to 85 deg F and -0.75 psig.

Tin = 70 + 460 = 530 deg R
Pin = -0.5 + 14.7 = 14.2 psia

0.98614251719524976895424215738132

1.0179941214423973044662699835114

Corrected flow for 20psi = (35.40 x (530/545)^0.5) / (14.2/13.949) = 34.29lb/min

Corrected flow for 25psi = (40.50 x (530/545)^0.5) / (14.2/13.949) =
39.23lb/min

Corrected flow for 30psi = (44.03 x (530/545)^0.5) / (14.2/13.949) = 42.65lb/min

Now for Mitsu maps, they use CFM, Garret uses lb/min. Every 10 lb/min is equal to 144.72 cfm. So:

CFM = (34.29 lb/min / 10) * 144.72 cfm = 496 cfm for 20psi
CFM = (39.23 lb/min / 10) * 144.72 cfm = 568 cfm for 25psi
CFM = (42.65 lb/min / 10) * 144.72 cfm = 617 cfm for 30psi

So we mark that point on the bottom of the graph, and draw a straight line upward from that point.

The next step is to figure out the compression ratio, using absolute pressures. Using our example, we had 8 psi boost in the intake manifold. Let's suppose the pressure drop from the turbo outlet to the manifold is 3 psi; so the actual compressor outlet pressure is 3+20=23 psig. The air pressure is 0 psig, but since the turbo is sucking air to itself the pressure at the inlet is lower than that. Let's say it is -0.5 psig at the inlet. Then the compression ratio, Pout/Pin is :

20psi Pout/Pin = (23 + 14.7) / (-0.5 + 14.7) = 2.65
25psi Pout/Pin = (28 + 14.7) / (-0.5 + 14.7) = 3.01
30psi Pout/Pin = (33 + 14.7) / (-0.5 + 14.7) = 3.36

So then we find about where 2.65/3.01/3.36 are on the left side of the graph and draw a line horizontally from that point. Where the two lines meet is where the turbo will operate.

SO using my 1337 skills in MS Paint:

Small 16g isnt really efficient at all over 20psi on a 4g64. Its at about 68% @20psi and is off the graph at 25psi and way off at 30psi. So probably after 22ish psi, you will stop making power.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/sethmo38/td05h-16gsmall-cfm-1.jpg

TD06 20g is at ~75% @ 20psi. Same design as the 16g, just bigger. I forget if the 20g uses the same compressor wheels as the 16gs or not. Again not too efficient past 25psi.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/sethmo38/td06h-20g-cfm.jpg

GT30R, kind of a hard map to read. Looks like 76% @ 20psi, 74% @ 25psi, and 70%@30psi?
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/sethmo38/gt30r2.jpg

With all that said, Id say go with a GT30R! I couldnt find a good map for the GT35R for some reason. I am bored, I will find one. Yes.

[seth98esT]

Found one. Probably not a good turbo to use unless you do some headwork/transwork to rev above 6200rpm. The turbo probably woudl spool at 4000-5000RPM, so wouldnt be too much fun in that area.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f39/sethmo38/gt35r.jpg

[laxinwarrior]

Ok well right now i'm sort of torn between two options. I can get a Garrett 60 trim with BB center cartridge for $1079 or a gt30r for $1205. Not really sure if there is a big enough difference in the two to warrant spending the extra couple hundred. :?

Oh and Seth thanks for those compressor maps they helped out a hell of a lot.

[run1206]

wow, before i was a lil confused about reading compressor maps, now i understand it, thanks laxin and seth!!

[bmore303]

I nominate Laxin to do the first destroked 2.1L 4G64 in a 7G. GT35R would be pretty fun on that .

[laxinwarrior]

Ok so I had the G on the jack today and I was poking around underneath looking for oil leaks to see if it was all being lost through the turbo and I noticed that my return line has a nasty ass kink in it that restricts it to about half the flow it is supposed to have. I don't know if this is because i am running a small 16G or not but there is a weirdly complex angle to the return line due to the outlet on the turbo being in a weird sport compared to the tap on the oil pan. :? Also the pushlock lines don't have very good flexibility which i'm sure didn't help the situation. Goddamn pushlock lines!! For those of you that don't know much about turbos, the return lines are gravity fed and that's why they are much larger in diameter than the feed lines. This usually allows it to drain off all the necessary oil but with half the return line blocked off like mine is, it more than likely is backing up to the point that the oil is being forced through the seals in the turbo. Anyway I am now waiting on a stainless braided line that which should take care of this problem.

Moral of the story: Don't be a complete fucking moron and jump to conclusions without checking for the easy solutions. :oops:

... I will still be upgrading turbos but after reviewing some more compressor maps, I have most likely decided to go with either a 50 trim ball bearing or a gt3076r.

[run1206]

Ok so I had the G on the jack today and I was poking around underneath looking for oil leaks to see if it was all being lost through the turbo and I noticed that my return line has a nasty ass kink in it that restricts it to about half the flow it is supposed to have. I don't know if this is because i am running a small 16G or not but there is a weirdly complex angle to the return line due to the outlet on the turbo being in a weird sport compared to the tap on the oil pan. :? Also the pushlock lines don't have very good flexibility which i'm sure didn't help the situation. Goddamn pushlock lines!! For those of you that don't know much about turbos, the return lines are gravity fed and that's why they are much larger in diameter than the feed lines. This usually allows it to drain off all the necessary oil but with half the return line blocked off like mine is, it more than likely is backing up to the point that the oil is being forced through the seals in the turbo. Anyway I am now waiting on a stainless braided line that which should take care of this problem.

Moral of the story: Don't be a complete fucking moron and jump to conclusions without checking for the easy solutions. :oops:

... I will still be upgrading turbos but after reviewing some more compressor maps, I have most likely decided to go with either a 50 trim ball bearing or a gt3076r.

thanks for the post, this is kinda like a "heads-up" for me to watch for these problems when i redo my oil system during my build. i'm planning on ordering steel braided lines, but i have to find out the angle and fitting for my lines in comparison to the tap on the oil pan.

[laxinwarrior]

Well I found a deal I couldn't refuse so I picked up a Bullseye 50 trim today. Comes with a 38mm internal gate, ceramic coated compressor housing and a jet hot coated cast stainless steel turbine housing. This will be getting installed next weekend when Proto comes up for the wrench day meet. :twisted:

Here's a few pics for you guys:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/bullseye50trim.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/Photo15.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/Photo14.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/Photo13.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/Photo12.jpg

[run1206]

great deal laxin!!! :smt023
i hope to be there as well on the 15th

[seth98esT]

Sweet. Thats a crazy looking exhaust housing haha.

[DOHCstunr]

with that housing.......



1: get a tap and die set.
2: use brand new OEM(don't use arp just don't do it.. they'll snap) turbo bolts and o2 bolts. with two oem spring washers(jsut like factory) and torque them to spec.
3: every time you take those bolts out..... chase the threads of the housing with the tap, and chase the threads of the bolt with the die.
4: use ultra high temp antisieze coating on the threads of the bolts.
5: if you don't do steps 1-5 with that turbine hosing.... you WILL have broken off bolts in your turbine housing..... resulting in expensive machine work and/or you buying a new housing.

[laxinwarrior]

with that housing.......



1: get a tap and die set.
2: use brand new OEM(don't use arp just don't do it.. they'll snap) turbo bolts and o2 bolts. with two oem spring washers(jsut like factory) and torque them to spec.
3: every time you take those bolts out..... chase the threads of the housing with the tap, and chase the threads of the bolt with the die.
4: use ultra high temp antisieze coating on the threads of the bolts.
5: if you don't do steps 1-5 with that turbine hosing.... you WILL have broken off bolts in your turbine housing..... resulting in expensive machine work and/or you buying a new housing.

Thanks John, I was going to ask you if you had any issues with your bullseye housing. I guess that answers my question though.

[kolio]

nice joe, i'm almost ready too. almost.

come back down and we can go srt-4 hunting again :lol:

[laxinwarrior]

nice joe, i'm almost ready too. almost.

come back down and we can go srt-4 hunting again :lol:

Yeah and this time I won't have to be the one trying to reel him in. :P

[laxinwarrior]

Alright well I am finally finished installing the 50 trim. Everything is up and running solid so after a short break in i'll let you guys know how the turbo does. And no I don't have any pics yet but I will try to get some up soon.

[seth98esT]

Congrats. Pics and vids are a must! I need a new setup so I can go Z06 hunting lolz

[run1206]

Good job!!! get those pics up ASAP :D

[underated]

great to hear you go it in a running good... looking forward to pics and vids lol

[glantv699]

Alright well I am finally finished installing the 50 trim. Everything is up and running solid so after a short break in i'll let you guys know how the turbo does. And no I don't have any pics yet but I will try to get some up soon.

glad to hear you're in business dude....now these pics/vids, is that where I come in? haha

[laxinwarrior]

Alright well I am finally finished installing the 50 trim. Everything is up and running solid so after a short break in i'll let you guys know how the turbo does. And no I don't have any pics yet but I will try to get some up soon.

glad to hear you're in business dude....now these pics/vids, is that where I come in? haha

Either you or Reggie when I go help him install his FMIC. 8)

[mtcavity1]

Sweeeet! I definatly want to see what changes in boost responce you got from the 50 trim compaired to the stock compressor.

Feed my eyes some pictures.

Oh, and merry christmas to you and your very beautyfull family! :D

[laxinwarrior]

Sweeeet! I definatly want to see what changes in boost responce you got from the 50 trim compaired to the stock compressor.

Feed my eyes some pictures.

Oh, and merry christmas to you and your very beautyfull family! :D

The 16g was fully spooled around 2800 rpm and the 50 trim from what I can tell so far spools by right around 3500 but I have yet to actually try to wind it out since it's still being broken in.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Sweeeet! I definatly want to see what changes in boost responce you got from the 50 trim compaired to the stock compressor.

Feed my eyes some pictures.

Oh, and merry christmas to you and your very beautyfull family! :D

The 16g was fully spooled around 2800 rpm and the 50 trim from what I can tell so far spools by right around 3500 but I have yet to actually try to wind it out since it's still being broken in.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

That's a heck of a gift! Good work and get some videos once it's broken in.

[kolio]

good work joe, you can bet i'm gonna see it.

and merry christmas

[laxinwarrior]

Ok Blah blah blah .... reupdate ... running good at 10 psi .... pulls strong .... great topend ... spins first AND second ... clutch just started slipping :?

[seth98esT]

Really? What clutch do you have? Im rocking the $80 OEM Exedy for a 2g(Probably same p/n for a 7g) and it doesnt slip at 22psi on a 14b. Ive had this clutch since February '07 without issues.

Thats if you need a cheap fix(Think I paid $86 locally for clutch disc and pressure plate).

[laxinwarrior]

It's the stock replacement, been on the car for over 80,000 miles though.

[glantv699]

maybe if you didn't go around beating up on 8G's your clutch would show you more love

sounds like seth has a good replacement plan, just hit that up

[laxinwarrior]

Cry baby......

[kolio]

you love the way my clutch feels, time to get it yourself

[laxinwarrior]

Yeah I do. Which one is it exactly Chris? Also if my clutch gives out before I'm done building my new motor I'll probably go the route Seth did since I won't have the money for an upgraded clutch.

P.S. There might be a video or two popping up in the next week.... If George isn't too embarrassed to post them. :P

[djflex167]

man turbo is the way to go!! and not to mention twin turbo even better!!

[kolio]

Yeah I do. Which one is it exactly Chris? Also if my clutch gives out before I'm done building my new motor I'll probably go the route Seth did since I won't have the money for an upgraded clutch.

P.S. There might be a video or two popping up in the next week.... If George isn't too embarrassed to post them. :P

i got the fidanza 2.1 clutch kit it's good to 300hp got it from here
http://www.ultrarev.com/product.php?productid=35050

and i got the fidanza 8lb flywheel too but cannot remember where i got it from i had got everything for like $420 shipped

[laxinwarrior]

Yeah I do. Which one is it exactly Chris? Also if my clutch gives out before I'm done building my new motor I'll probably go the route Seth did since I won't have the money for an upgraded clutch.

P.S. There might be a video or two popping up in the next week.... If George isn't too embarrassed to post them. :P

i got the fidanza 2.1 clutch kit it's good to 300hp got it from here
http://www.ultrarev.com/product.php?productid=35050

and i got the fidanza 8lb flywheel too but cannot remember where i got it from i had got everything for like $420 shipped

I'll probably get the 3.2 if I get it. The slipping isn't bad though. So far it only slips in 2nd at WOT once it hits boost, no other time. Oh well, I'll live.

[kolio]

wow i wonder what that feels like compared to mine. when i start making more power i'll change the disk

[laxinwarrior]

Ok so as a birthday present I think i'm going to go get some dyno time next week. Plus I only have one month left to make sure everything is legal for emissions. :roll:

[run1206]

im hoping after my refund comes in, i'll be able to finish up my build and go to a dyno as well.
let us know how it comes out 8)

[laxinwarrior]

Alright so if funds permit I might be going to the dyno ...

[laxinwarrior]

Next project coming up is going to be the ecu swap. Quick question, Seth how much of a pain was it to wire in the 2g CAS? The reason I ask is because I still haven't been able to find anyone that has swapped ecu's in a galant while staying SOHC. I know the 2g spyder guys have done the swap without problem so i'm sure it can be done. Either way i'll be going over the wiring diagrams and will post up anything I find and if need be do a writeup on the swap or confirm if it is the same as the swap to the DOHC CAS.

[laxinwarrior]

Ok, here's what I found so far:

4g64 from syder with CAS:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~chadnmichelle/pics/engineside.jpg

4g64 from galant with distributor:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/IMG_3589.jpg

Sorry for the big ass pic ... Don't know how to resize it.

Anyone feel like helping me brainstorm?

[WarmAndSCSI]

Hey, if the bolt pattern and the key on the end of the camshaft are the same, you're all set. I would just unbolt your distributor and find out.

[seth98esT]

Shouldnt be a problem, I think Tom here is going to try it. The 7g and 2g Spyder head should be the same. Swapping ECUs for me wasnt too bad, just follow JiPs tutorial.

[spdracr]

this is way off topic and such a noob question but is it true that the 2000 ecu is not flashable ???

thanks and sorry for my question but u guys are the experts and I just wanna know

[WarmAndSCSI]

this is way off topic and such a noob question but is it true that the 2000 ecu is not flashable ???

thanks and sorry for my question but u guys are the experts and I just wanna know

I'll answer your question, but not before pointing out that Laxin doesn't even OWN an 8G...:rolleyes:

The 1999-2000 ECU is indeed not flashable at this point.

[laxinwarrior]

I have absolutely no experience with the 8g ecu's but from everything i've been told the 99-00 ecu's are not able to be flashed. Not too sure on the 01 and I think the 02-03 can be. Anyone with an 8g can give you better info though.

Back on topic: ( I really hope I don't jinx myself again.) Car is getting on the dyno friday at 4:30.

And since no one has posted this up yet, i'll do it for myself:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/dynos.gif

Edit: Damn you TJ I was trying to be smart.:p

[DOHCstunr]

warning issued for off topic banter.

lets get back on topic.

laxin's turbo build.

[QnzMostWanted]

hey Joe, i'll run up to the JY this week and pull the CAS off a 2g Spyder and pull the distrib outta one of the 7gs, i'll take pics and everything

[spdracr]

ok I really didnt know I was gonna get a warning for this I apologize for this

and thank u guys for the answer and good luck on the dyno Laxin, can't wait to see ur numbers

p.s. warm I know that Ladin has a 7g not an 8g

[kolio]

are you still gonna dyno with the joe tune?

so you are trying to ditch the gen2 and run the eclipse ecu or run both?

keep us updated, if this works i may have a solution for my management on my turbo set up

[DOHCstunr]

it woudl be best to run gen2 and an eclipse ecu.

[laxinwarrior]

are you still gonna dyno with the joe tune?

so you are trying to ditch the gen2 and run the eclipse ecu or run both?

keep us updated, if this works i may have a solution for my management on my turbo set up

Ill be sticking with the gen2 as well but want the knock control and fuel and timing maps from the turbo ecu. I installed my wideband last weekend so I am actually able to tune it in now.

And I don't see why it won't work, the 2g spyder guys have been running the turbo ecu on the 4g64 for a few years now. The only difference between the two is the distributor on the galant. I just haven't seen anyone try it yet, that's all.

[kolio]

if you need help we can make a mini meet

[laxinwarrior]

Mini meet could be fun ... But would you really want to drive all the way up here just to watch me cut and splice a bunch of wires? :p

[kolio]

you know it's an excuse, last time i was there the turbo project was being a pain in the dick

[PogiGreg]

Hey Laxinwarrior, How much did you put in to that turbo build? All parts?

[laxinwarrior]

I couldn't say, I haven't really kept a running total or anything but if I had to guess I would say around 3 grand. Not including any other mods either.

[tom04841]

Next project coming up is going to be the ecu swap. Quick question, Seth how much of a pain was it to wire in the 2g CAS? The reason I ask is because I still haven't been able to find anyone that has swapped ecu's in a galant while staying SOHC. I know the 2g spyder guys have done the swap without problem so i'm sure it can be done. Either way i'll be going over the wiring diagrams and will post up anything I find and if need be do a writeup on the swap or confirm if it is the same as the swap to the DOHC CAS.

I will be doing the ecu swap in the next couple days. I will be staying SOHC and using a 2.4 Spyder cas housing, cas, and cas pickup cylinder, and 2g coil packs and power transistor. After studying the schematics for the 2g eclipse and the 7g, here is what I came up with as far as wiring.

CAS wiring:

Pin 1: 12volts - Black/red at dist (5 pin plug)
Pin 2: Signal wire - Brown/green at dist (5pin plug)
Pin 3: Ground - Black wire at dist (5 pin plug)

Power Trans Wiring:

Pin 1 and 8: Coil Pack Outputs
Pin 2: Pin 23 (2g ECU)
Pin 3: Ground - Black wire at dist. (5 pin plug)
Pin 4: White Wire at distributor (2 pin plug) - tach signal (Pin 58-2g ECU this wire is moved from Pin 31 on 7g)
Pin 6: Black/white wire at distributor (2 pin plug) - 12volts - also goes to coil packs
Pin 7: White wire at distributor (5 pin plug)

Knock Sensor:

Signal: To Pin 78 (2g ecu)

ECU:

ECU power: Tap an ignition signal wire and run to pin 82
Knock LED: Run wire to pin 11 of ecu. (Optional, but I like to see knock. If doing this look up knockled on vfaq.com)

ISC:

Still haven't decided what I am going to do here since I am not swapping tb. I have a 2g isc, but not sure if it fits

[laxinwarrior]

Thanks a lot man, you just saved me a few hours of going over pinouts and diagrams. :) As far as the 2g isc, I don't know if it will work on the stock TB. I know the TPS is completely different though.

[tom04841]

Well, I attempted to do the swap this evening with no luck. The end of our cam isn't threaded, so the cas cylinder won't bolt up. Not only that, but the part of the cas cylinder that meshes with the cam is a little too large. I was very discouraged, but i will take another crack at it shortly. I am going to drill and tap the cam and grind down the cas cylinder so it will fit in the end of the cam. The only other options are to source a Spyder cam, or modify the cas plate in the dist to output 2 pulses. This would require welding on another tab to the plate. If the drilling, threading, and grinding doesn't go as planned, this will be my next option.

[laxinwarrior]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/ScannedImage.jpg

[WarmAndSCSI]

Good deal! Now just cam that sumbitch to flatten that torque curve.

[9G]

yey! 220whp!

[4-G-rim]

Very nice numbers on the dyno Laxin! How much boost were you running on those numbers?

[laxinwarrior]

10 psi

[4-G-rim]

Nice..what was your A/F ratios?

[laxinwarrior]

11.5:1 it peaked up to 12.1:1 at 3600 but then dropped right back down ... still haven't gotten that figured out yet.

[WarmAndSCSI]

11.5:1 it peaked up to 12.1:1 at 3600 but then dropped right back down ... still haven't gotten that figured out yet.
Peak VE (torque maximum could mean you just need more fuel right there.

[laxinwarrior]

More than likely, the past few days have had me thinking I might need to get bigger injectors sooner than I had originally intended.

[laxinwarrior]

Id say 218.5whp 238.9ftlbs :)

Nice guesstimate. :cool:

[4-G-rim]

More than likely, the past few days have had me thinking I might need to get bigger injectors sooner than I had originally intended.


What size injectors are you running again? 450cc's right?

Were you able to log what your IDC's were?

[bmore303]

Nice job again Joe, He's running the 450's and hasn't been able to log the IDC.

[kolio]

good job joe. you konw you can get some more power out of it

[WarmAndSCSI]

Not too much more without upgrading internals... I'm betting 275 WHP with an awesome tune.

[bmore303]

One question about the Bullseye 50 trim. How does that internal gate hold up at low boost?

[seth98esT]

Nice numbers. Im going to try to ship your parts out tomorrow, already got the pump pulled off the car and ready to ship.

[laxinwarrior]

Bmore: The internal gate is 38mm and so far I have had zero issues with it. I've run 10 psi with absolutely no boost creep at any rpm's.

Seth: Thanks man, I appreciate it.

[tom04841]

Thanks a lot man, you just saved me a few hours of going over pinouts and diagrams. :) As far as the 2g isc, I don't know if it will work on the stock TB. I know the TPS is completely different though.


hate to sound redundant, but I am just going to copy and paste from my post for you.


Well, After a long day, the ecu is swapped in along with the spyder cas housing, cylinder, and cas. It is running great!

I followed the swap tutorial, with a couple changes as i noted here...post 171 page 9
https://thegalantcenter.net/forum/sho...t=22423&page=9

I had to grind a little off the cas cylinder to get it to fit into the end of the cam.....its a little larger than the one on the distributor. Trial and error...luckily no error occured.

Next, I drilled the end of the cam. Make sure if you are doing this to stuff shop rags into the slots in the head just at the end of the cam to prevent any shavings getting into the oil.SCARY PART!!!! I did it in 2 steps, then tapped it with a 5/16 tap since we had plenty of different lengths at the shop. Now make sure you get the offset right and bolt the cylinder to the cam using a lock washer under the head of the bolt.

I had to rewire the fuel pump...some do, some don't. Tap the same ignition wire that you have to run to pin 82 on the 2g ecu, and use that for the signal to trigger the relay. Then proceeded with the rewire as usual.

I did however disconnect the wiring to the ISC since I haven't figured that one out yet

Stock tb and tps work fine.

I hooked the logger up and I watched the stft, and needed to pull out 7% with the safc to get it to 0

It didn't fire up at first, i had to swap the plug wires at the coil packs. Then she fired up. I didn't get any immediate CEL, but once i gave it some gas, it came on. I got 2. One for the fuel pressure solenoid (P1105), and one for the boost solenoid (P1104). The boost solenoid one wouldn't have come on if i would have done the knock led mod. I am going to have to use the same resistor as the knock led mod to get the CEL for the fuel press solenoid to go out.

Aside from that, the only other issue I have, is the tach in the gauge cluster isn't working now, so if someone has some insight to why, I am all ears. Not sure why though since the tach on the safc is reading normal.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I will try to get some pics up soon.

[laxinwarrior]

Hey did you ever get the issue with the tach figured out?

[tom04841]

Hey did you ever get the issue with the tach figured out?

I didn't, although I haven't tried either. I can see my rpms on my safc, so it really isn't a priority.

[laxinwarrior]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/reardisc_5lug.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/reardisc_5lug2.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/reardisc_5lug3.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/reardisc_5lug4.jpg

[WhiteGalant]

wow joe
reviving your own thread? lol

[laxinwarrior]

Hey I can update my build thread if I want. :smt098

[seth98esT]

Those GSX wheels are hot in black. Daytime pics!

[greddy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those guynlidia's old wheels?

[glantv699]

**cough**Barcelona & Black PA TWINS**cough**

[laxinwarrior]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those guynlidia's old wheels?

Yeah they are.

[laxinwarrior]

Just a little bit more of an update ... Motor mounts were shot to shit so I picked up some prothane's which will also be installed while i'm buttoning things back up. As far as brakes, it will be hawk pads and stainless lines at all four corners. Still waiting on the clutch and flywheel. Even if it's ready in time for the meet i'm not so sure if i'll drive it because my alignment is soooo far off i would more than likely completely destroy my tires. we'll see...

[laxinwarrior]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/5lug_dualpistonfront.jpg

[laxinwarrior]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/transin.jpg

[DOHCstunr]

yo lax,
You will never... ever be happy with that external wastegate setup.
I promise. your flapper is going to blow open all the time, and you will have spikes of overboost before it opens, and once the gate remains open.... inconsistant boost levels lower than what you desire it to be.

On a stock 4g64.... i don't think you can afford to risk unpredictable boost levels.

That advice is unbiased from me to you from my own experience.

Now, not to use this oppurtunity for my own personal gain.... I do have a solution for you that you will find quite suitable, and a deal that is too good to pass up. If you are interested shoot me a PM i'll hook you up.

[laxinwarrior]

At this point my only real concern is just getting the car running again ... but you do have me intrigued. Check your messages.

[laxinwarrior]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/finishedproduct.jpg

[mitgalantes]

^^^and what the hell does this mean lmao...

[Proto]

it's finally running again! I see a J pipe.. which mitsu turbo did you slap on there? Should of put the bulleyes back in.

[kolio]

so you didn't finish the head swap ehh? ohh well, next time you have it apart.

[bmore303]

The 50 trims needs to be rebuilt. As for the swap, I don't think Joe has forgotten about it at all.

[laxinwarrior]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/waitingforalignment.jpg

[ZigenScarface]

nice sleeper

[glantv699]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/waitingforalignment.jpg

http://photos-b.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v2171/91/88/10510335/n10510335_34614553_8481.jpg

TWINS! :D Photoshoot is a must...

[4g63lover]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/laxinwarrior/waitingforalignment.jpg

can you imagine sitting in a car and that pulls up next to you and blow your doors off??

I would be pissing my pants in excitement.

[mtcavity1]

I hope you did not shoot anyone while you were at Mardi Gras?..

Good to see her up and running again! Still running like a raped ape I take it...

Holla at a cracker when you have some time man...