Does this look like bent valves ? or is this just me ?

[Eclipse97526]

Hey guys, this is my first time jumping into anything like this, and i dont think this is normal, i did have a loud knocking in my engine, and well... Here, look for yourself, i think i bent 2 valves, or is this normal ? either way, im going to drop them out and grind them, etc.

Cylinder 1

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1954.jpg


Cylinder 2

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1955.jpg

Cylinder 3

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1956.jpg

Cylinder 4

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1957.jpg


Another shot of 3, at a difrent angle... this is where the loud ticking was occuring... dont look flattened no head damage or anything...

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1953.jpg


and the top of the black =p Not cleaned or nothing. 120 k miles of hard racing. Top dead center.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1928.jpg

Condition of cylinders 2 and 3 i will clean it up, and get more pics, the bottm end appears perfect. I dont think i will touch it... Unless someone has a cheap rebuild kit layin around.... Let me know what you think

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1943.jpg

[Eclipse97526]

Also i was wondering if anyone had ever size matched there ports ? (EX Grind down the extra metal off the block to match the gasket ? And polish the intake and exaust ports ) I noticed there is about 1/4 inch of extra metal that cound be shaved off the block to " Port Match " the heads... This would up my performance quite abit i idmagine ? opening the exaust and intake ports about a 1/4 inch in diamiater... Any ideas ?

[seth98esT]

Crack?
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-16-07_1957.jpg

Are there any identions on the pistons? Thats the only way the valves could be bent is if they hit the tops of your pistons.

If they did, it would look like this:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/578000-578999/578298_19_full.jpg

Sounds like a spun rod or balance shaft bearing or something. I dont see any indentions on your pistons.

[Eclipse97526]

Thanks for brining that to my attention :) Luckly it was just oil, i examined for cracks, but that picture made me go whaaa... But there are no indentions in the pistons, they look very clean, im going to wire brush dremo them, and call it good, the factory honing marks are still on the cylinder walls even ! ( Thanks mobil 1 extended performance ! ) But yea, im just trying to elimate this horrid ticking coming from my engine that goes away with RPM revs. And comes and goes, so i think it may be a hydrolic lifter adjuster what ever there called, im burned out lol.

Would you happen to have a picture of the bottom side of the heads taken off ? im curious to see what the valves should look like with the head off. cylinder 3 definatly where the ticking was coming from, and it has been like that sience i got the car at 40 k miles, but i drove it very very hard for 3 years, and the tickin comes and goes, but its louder now... This car didnt need this. I just wanted to fix the knocking and replace everything. New motors are nice ;) hehe

So if its not piston slap, which from thoes pictures, its definatly not, and i guess cant really be bent,, even though it looks a little crooked ( the valve) I guess i cant tell till i pop them out and check them., I have an angle grinder, and i will redo my own valves and do all this work myself :) I would like to keep everything 100 % me on this car :) Well. Me and TGC ! Whooo hoo lol ;) thanks everyone to all the help you have provided over the years !!!

[Eclipse97526]

Another day about to begin

[Eclipse97526]

Oopps. Thanks for the info man, i posted a new topic on accident lol. Any whooo, Just woke up, bought some goodies, wire brushes, cleaners. injector O Rings etc... This is a good time to upgrade injectors too ? any larger ones from a 2 g or 1 g eclipse work ? Anyone know the cC;s on a stok 4g64 vs a stock 2g talon tsi ? i have a set of 4 injectors i can get off of a 2g talon if they are better, id like to swap these ;)

Damn, i wish someone had some old parts they could send me till i got paid.... I wish i had a under drive pully and cam gears... I spent 450 bucks so far, but i needed new alternator, water pump, all bets and tensioners, all gaskets, and cam seals etc.

Should i replace the Dyfraulic lash adjusters ? or the rocker arms ? What would make the valves knock ?

[cdipier2]

if its ticking that your motor had its gotta be lifter tick. my car has it too, its annoying but i can tolerate it

i read somewhere on here that you can get a revised set of lifters and it will get rid of the tick

[Eclipse97526]

Dang, i would really like that.... Yes, my car has always done it... But well... I figured sience i got the motor all tore apart, why not fix it !!! Thanks for the info, maybe toss me a link if ya happen to have one, i cant seem to run across them . Thanks again !

[WarmAndSCSI]

Are there any identions on the pistons? Thats the only way the valves could be bent is if they hit the tops of your pistons.

Wrong. Valves can be bent during a bad detonation event. I've even seen it on my own engine.

In those pictures, are the cams rotated so that those valves should be closed? If they're not closing when the piston would be at TDC on the compression cycle, then they are badly bent.

[Eclipse97526]

Everything was top dead center, and that picture was taken the moment after i tore it off, that is fresh oil running down cylinder 4 that looks like a crack... And there is a horrible ticking coming from that cylinder... :(

[WarmAndSCSI]

Okay, you should clearly see that the rocker arms have free play if the valves are not closing when they should be. Is that the case?

[Eclipse97526]

But i made sure everything was TDC on the Cam, and the Crank, and the balacing shaft and everything before i took the timing cover off, then double checked them right before we took the head off.
Would you wouldnt happen to know where i can find a walkthrew on removing valves ? i do have a angle grinder, used for re-grinding valves. So if i can get them out, im in the good ! Also, any info on a walthrough for making sure the cam is 180 TDC when i re assemble the head, so its not all 180 degrees off from the TDC of the crank . I dunno how i will tell the diffrence on the cam bieng the right TDC, i dont want it to be 180 off and smack the valves and have everything all backwards

[WarmAndSCSI]

Your valves aren't bent from piston to valve contact if your engine hasn't ever been out of time. Don't worry about the timing right now - it's impossible to screw up if you follow the FSM. It could have been detonation, overrevving, who knows. I'm just trying to find out if they're bent.

Are they or not? You have the head off the engine, it should be easy to find out.

edit: I know that valve float causes piston to valve contact at high RPM, but I don't think that's what happened here any way.

[Eclipse97526]

ok i checked it out

It dont seem that the rockers have any play what so ever on that cylinder, at least not up and down, they are tight... But it does knock back and fourth a little bit . Then Cylinder 2's lifters do have a little bit of play, they tao a bit up and down. the exaust valves on cylinder 2 are open a tiny bit noo i noticed !!! They are not as bad as cylinder 3, But they are not fully seated... , Also cylinder 2 looks like it has more corrosion than the other cylinders. looks like it was burning hotter . Cylinder 3's rockers go back and fourth left and right pretty good, makes a loud clacking noice... Rattly sound sure.

Cylinders 1 and 4 are tight and good, no play and no rattles. up and down left and right, and i popped a clip off of one of the rockers on accident lol, i cant get it back on, lmfao. Its all comin apart anyways =-p

[WarmAndSCSI]

Well the rockers will have as much play as the lifters can compress. I'm talking about being able to move the things up and down significantly - as if the valve is stuck open 1/8"-1/4"

If you can rotate the cams and get the valves to all close, you're okay. Just get the came rotated so there is no resistance - that's where all the valves should be closed.

BTW, cylinder #1 TDC does not mean TDC for all of the pistons... I was a little confused by your pictures. I don't think you actually meant the cylinder was at TDC.

Any way, valve train noise is really easy to tell from lower end noise. Is the noise coming from the bottom or the top of the engine? Does it sound like a hollow thud? Could be rod knock then.

[Eclipse97526]

Well i bought this car when i was 20 lol, i used to rev the shit out of it, and race it all over, i had 50 k miles, and now i have 110 k miles. There is no piston wear at all, i cleaned them up, and the bottom end is perfect, not even a scratch or a wear at all. The factory honing marks are still in tact.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-17-07_1246.jpg

[Eclipse97526]

its a light tapping, that comes and goes, and gets really loud then ya, it used to go away with revs, then the tapping got worse, and stayed for longer, and its just speratic. Im outside playing with the head... The cam is TDC. I put the valvecover back on and checked.... I moved it to the left, and to the right, and the other valves opeped, let me go see if it shuts all the way.... i cleaned the piston tops with wire bushes , and got all the buildup off of them.

[Eclipse97526]

What do u mean have the cam rotated so there is no resistance ? there is alot of resistance, then it wants to pop back into TDC

[Eclipse97526]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-18-07_0031.jpg

Just took that picture, it was off a bit, like 1/4 inch but i re linned the cam as you can see in the picture above


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-18-07_0032.jpg

This picture i flipped it over

the first closest set you see is cylinder 3 and then look across at cylinder 2 :( ACk !!!! The oopiste valves are open, and they look really badly burned way more than the other cyclinders

And cyclinder 3 dont seem to tap, but cylinder 2 does. mainly back and fourth really bad And that was a light ticking sound, like, sounded like lifters, even with a scope, it definatly was coming from cylinder 2 o 3, and sounded like more the intake side of the engine. a bad injector maybe ?
some signgs.... maybe ? injectors tick ? lol im unsure hehe

[WarmAndSCSI]

nvm about the no resistance thing, that would work on a V6 head. Okay, I still mean to get the CYLINDER at TDC (so the valves on that cylinder are all closed), not the timing mark. I'm pretty sure those #2 and #3 valves are supposed to be open at #1 TDC...

Wow, you really don't understand what I'm trying to get you to do? Just make sure all of the valves close completely (at some point) when the cam is rotated... It's really simple. You're not going to break anything by rotating the cam gear - just keep your fingers out of there - use a 17mm wrench to turn it clockwise. If the valves can close, they're probably not severely bent. I've had a few that sealed OK but were still bent, so YMMV.

[Eclipse97526]

I see, sorry lol the other night when i was on, i was awake for a long time workin on my engine lol, Well yes, the valves all seat up, at one point or another. I got them all to close at some point or another.

I appreachate you trying to help me to man, it means alot ! :)

[WarmAndSCSI]

I see, sorry lol the other night when i was on, i was awake for a long time workin on my engine lol, Well yes, the valves all seat up, at one point or another. I got them all to close at some point or another.

I appreachate you trying to help me to man, it means alot ! :)

Okay, your valves are probably okay then :lol:

A bad injector will be a sharp ticking.

Lifter tick sounds like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRg8R8XllI0

And this is rod knock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlZvtcZ6uSA

Hope that helps.

Lifter tick can be remedied by following the FSM procedure for cleaning/bleeding your lash adjusters/lifters. Then you should probably run some better oil (Castrol GTX, Mobil1 if you want synthetic).

You're not serious about grinding your valves are you? The seats also have to be ground to match the valves... you should probably let a machine shop do that stuff.

[Eclipse97526]

a Bit off the subject, But i did port and polish my head + Headers =)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-17-07_1404.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/eclipse97526/11-17-07_1908.jpg

[Eclipse97526]

It is definatly like Video #1 But mine used to go away around 2-3 k revs. Now it gets lounder, not that loud more like a light tapping compared to that. But it went away around 3-5 k revs before i tore it apart.

Well i orginially switched over to mobile 1 extended performance fully synthetic . At 60 k miles, when i noticed the ticking staying more ( it came on gradually, ) it ticked very very slightyly when i first got the car, it would tick like it does now all the time, But only on start up, then stoped, and would only tick when sitting at low revs, and come and go as it wished. Not concistitant ...

Would you happen to have a link to bleeding and readjusting the lash adjusters ?

[Eclipse97526]

i payed 220 $ to have my machinst do all 16 on a 4g63 motor. And he found out i had an angle grinder and told me i can do it myself, so we did my friend andrews car, Works great. I was just going to do it on this motor as well, I used a drill to spin them against the head, and create the groove.