Now the car wont start.

[Eclipse97526]

Ok this is fun stuff. my car isint starting, its turning over fine, well, it was, it kinda backfired, and is all dhuggy sounding like a missfire. And it sounds like the cam is backin up. i dont know what to do any more, I know that shit has been going wrong left and right, lol, any good mitsu people around southern oregon area ? I need to get my car running, and i dont get it. I dont know what it can be, only thing now is the Cam posistioning sensor that could be shot.

My question is if the Cam posistioning sensor was for say, Scraped. Barely. Wouldnt it still function properly ? i mean. its just a magnet that pics up on the cam cylinder.

[Eclipse97526]

i actually had that cylinder tag my sensor, and well, it was like blah, and stopped running, and when this happen, now everything is haywire. I guess ill pull off my timing cover, and see whats up.

[WarmAndSCSI]

You really need to stop creating new threads - it's quite annoying. I've kept 1 organized thread for my entire engine build, why can't you?

[n3oAcid24]

seriously man. oh i farted.... time for a new thread...

[4-G-rim]

Is the car throwing a CEL?

I would check for spark...then fuel if your car isnt starting.

[Eclipse97526]

Well im kinda a newbie here, i dont really post alot. At least untill recently, and ive kinda been having alot of problems. Sorry, Can a mod put all my threads into one...

[WarmAndSCSI]

Is the car throwing a CEL?

I would check for spark...then fuel if your car isnt starting.

This isn't going to help him much - his problem is mechanically-related (probably still with his cam angle sensor) because of the recent screw ups on his head rebuild. You would have known that if he kept everything in one thread, though.

And to answer his question: yes, that could damage your Cam Angle Sensor. I would have expected you to have replaced it already since that corresponding cylinder on the cam scraped it... Those magnetic sensors are very sensitive.

[Eclipse97526]

Well it has the compression, it backfired, and well, the spark was fine and all that, I was going to test the plugs, But then i checked my engine right before startup when i got back home with my new replacement camshaft cylinder. and the oil was a strange texture, and it smelled funny, so i looked closer, saw anti freeze comin down the oil filter. Then went to pull the plugs and check for spark, cause i figured, maybe it was just a bad seal on a O ring, Shitty, Ill hafta redo it, But i might as well see if it starts first, or at least check for spark, cause i smelled fuel definatly when i was compression checking. And the spark plug conductor grese i used, Was neon green.

So there in foruth, my newist invention, Simple green :P You put it on your timing belt, and in your engine....
naw, really tho, i popped my valve cover, and the oil smells funny. Keep in mind it only ran 30 seconds. The radiator is out of anti freeze, or really low, i cant see it. And the engine oil looks pretty high, but not high enuf if i had a blown headgasket, and well, i dont know... im kinda takin a break.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Well it has the compression, it backfired, and well, the spark was fine and all that, I was going to test the plugs, But then i checked my engine right before startup when i got back home with my new replacement camshaft cylinder. and the oil was a strange texture, and it smelled funny, so i looked closer, saw anti freeze comin down the oil filter. Then went to pull the plugs and check for spark, cause i figured, maybe it was just a bad seal on a O ring, Shitty, Ill hafta redo it, But i might as well see if it starts first, or at least check for spark, cause i smelled fuel definatly when i was compression checking. And the spark plug conductor grese i used, Was neon green.

So there in foruth, my newist invention, Simple green :P You put it on your timing belt, and in your engine....
naw, really tho, i popped my valve cover, and the oil smells funny. Keep in mind it only ran 30 seconds. The radiator is out of anti freeze, or really low, i cant see it. And the engine oil looks pretty high, but not high enuf if i had a blown headgasket, and well, i dont know... im kinda takin a break.

... The radiator is out of antifreeze because you didn't fill the coolant system to begin with. You need to fill the system through the upper radiator hose with it elevated above the engine before starting it for the first time.

I hate to say this, but take your car somewhere to get it fixed - I really, really think you're in too deep with all of this work you did. If you make one more careless mistake, it could be the end of your engine.

edit: and tell me this: did you have the head resurfaced before you put it back on? How do you even know you're getting a decent gasket seal? I'm still not understanding why you ripped this all apart - none of your valves were bent and your compression was OK, right? I truly think you've royally fucked yourself on this one if that new sensor doesn't fix your problem.

[Eclipse97526]

of course i had it checked, it was perfect, it didnt need resurfacing at all. I got a felt-Pro Head gasket. And i just tried using the same Sensor, The sensor itself was barely scratched. i dont think that would really effect it ? or is it that sensitive. The camshaft sensing cylinder is what was bent. =(

And there arent shit for mechanics around here. Expecially for mitusbishi's My friends have built several engines, and there perfect. always 4g63's but there basicly the same.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Ugh, whatever you say. I just hope you don't break anything else.

[Eclipse97526]

your telling me man, i wish i could pay someone to do it, but i would have to tow it somewhere . So should i replace the sensor cylinder even though its barely scratched, would that sned off the wrong signal ?

[seth98esT]

Wait, you had antifreeze coming out of the oil filter?

Did you do a compression check? What were the numbers on all 4 cylinders?

[WarmAndSCSI]

DO NOT run the engine with antifreeze anywhere where it shouldn't be. If that leak is between the head and the block, you're going to ruin your bearings.

[Eclipse97526]

the compression check was like
cylinder 1 : 170 's
cylinder 2 : 170's
cylinder 3 : 152
cylinder 4 170's

There was antifreeze leaking down it. but strangist of all. The conducter grese i used on my plugs, its green, but when u take them out, there not wet or nothing in the cylinders. I checked my timing, it was 100 % lined up, im sure of it, But somehow. its off 60 degrees now, after my little sensor innocendent.

[Eclipse97526]

mod, can u put my other threads before these I keep hitting new topic in the upper left instead of reply. lol
There all related.

[seth98esT]

What do the plug diodes look like? What do they smell like? Are you getting fuel? Make sure you are getting spark off of each plug. You can test it by disconnecting the fuel pump, pull one plug at a time, ground the plug to the body, then try cranking it for a second or two, you will be able to see/hear a constant spark.

[Eclipse97526]

they are definatly getting spark, the tips are burnt. And it did run for a good 30 - 40 seconds.

i had a question about the balancing shafts. and setting the timing, it tells you to unplug the plug hole, and put a flat head in there, and feel the balancing shaft, or see if the screwdriver can go in so far, Should this screw drive only be able to go in when it is on time perfectly ? cause i can fit it in the hole most of the time, weither which direction the water pump is lined up.

[seth98esT]

Should only be when it is in time. You can stick it in a few inches at all times, but it goes in several inches deeper when its in time. I dont even mess with that though. Theres an easier way to check to see if it is in time. Simply rotate the mark on the oil pump sprocket until it is pointing straight up, and let it go. If the sprocket rotates towards (counterclockwise) the timing mark on the engine, the oil pump sprocket is aligned correctly. If it rotates away (clockwise) from the mark, spin the sprocket a full turn and test again, and it should properly rotate towards the mark now. Now line the mark on the sprocket back up with the mark on the engine. This avoids having to remove the rear access bolt entirely.

*This is for a 7g/DSM motor, might be opposite for an 8g/3g motor.

[Eclipse97526]

yea right in the front behind the header :) thanks for the info, seems my screwdriver goes in pretty far when its 180 degrees off. also. ill try your method, it dont feel like its loose or anything in there at all. i wouldnt be able to spin my oil pump like that. would i ? cause screwdriver is going in far, but maybe cause im at an angle, and i havent taken the headers off this time.


Update : it seems when it is almost on time, ( the oil pump sprocket ) the screwdriver was blocked buy the balancing shaft. But when ever its 100- 180 Degrees off i can also fit the screwdriver in there, I just put the plug back on, and used your method.

Put the sproket timing on the oil pump facing upwards. it fell clockwise ( away from timing ) and i spun it 360 Degrees top dead center again, and it wanted to fall counter clockwise ( towards the timing mark )

[WarmAndSCSI]

the compression check was like
cylinder 1 : 170 's
cylinder 2 : 170's
cylinder 3 : 152
cylinder 4 170's

There was antifreeze leaking down it. but strangist of all. The conducter grese i used on my plugs, its green, but when u take them out, there not wet or nothing in the cylinders. I checked my timing, it was 100 % lined up, im sure of it, But somehow. its off 60 degrees now, after my little sensor innocendent.

Your timing is off? Are you rotating the crank twice? 2 rotations of the crank for every 1 rotation of the cam.

[Eclipse97526]

another other helpful easy tips for timing ? i read all the manuals and stuff, but that made it way easier =p lol. somehow my timing slipped off 180 degrees when my camshaft posistioning cylinder hit my poisioner sensor .

[Eclipse97526]

Aye. I checked it 7 difrent times, every time the cam lined up, TDC the oil pump mark was about 60 degrees off . Counter clockwise. as was the other balancing shaft sprocket. the smaller timing belt is still in line... and the crank and the cam lined up eachother on time...

[seth98esT]

Im not sure if I understand what you are saying. The crank, oil sprocket, balanceshaft, and cam gear all need to be lined up at the same time at one point in rotating the camgear/crank. Doesnt matter if the cam gear lines up at one point and the oil sprocket is 60* off, if you keep spinning the crank, they should all line up. I know on a DOHC motor, its about every 6-8 rotations of the crank that everything lines up.

If you have compression(which looks like you do, although the numbers seem a bit low for a NA 4cylinder? Maybe not.), if the timing is aligned correctly, if you have both fuel and spark, theres shouldnt be a reason why its not starting.

Did you say it sounded normal when it tries to crank over or is it still backfiring? If its backfiring, maybe its too much fuel. No fuel will not make it backfire.

Also double check all your vacuum lines.

[Eclipse97526]

it was definatly back firiging . The cam sproket was slipping going backwards. But the cam and crak aree still timed. so i pulled it off for now, got the oil balancing shaft lined up.

[Eclipse97526]

Well it can only be timing, there is fuel, there is spark, and when my friend blew a piston ring. it ran about 90 PSI compression, and his car still ran, it just smoked like a civ, and didnt sound to great. But either way, with air and fuel, it should run, luckly my mitsu friend is coming into town, he will set my timing, and ill have a professional oponion, rather than a friend that has only built 3 - 4 4g63 only motors, This friend has built well over 30 motors all were damien chrystler motors, so hopefully he gets me dialed in, ill keep you posted, he will be here at 5 pm tonight. Thanks all for your info and help on everything, i should be back up and running after he gets ahold of my car. hopefully ;)