Only firing on 2 cylinders?

[skipjim]

Ok,

A few weeks ago my 2000 Galant 2.4l coasted to a stop on the highway. Towed it to my buddy's garage figuring on replacing the fuel pump.

Did that. Still wouldn't start. Replaced the Cam Position Sensor, still nothing, replaced one of the two spark packs nothing.

Opened up the timing belt cover to discover that the balancer belt had come apart, replaced that and the timing belt, and the crank position sensor. We also replaced the spark plugs too (yes they're gapped properly).

Now the car will actually start, but it will only fire on cylinders 2 & 4 and 1 & 3 aren't firing at all. We pulled the codes off the car and got one for random misfires, nothing else comes up.

Where do we go from here? All four of the cylinders still have compression (125psi for 1-3 & #4 has 100psi), all four are getting spark.

Do we check the injectors on the two cylinders that aren't firing or do we bite the bullet and tear off the top half of the engine assuming that now we've got valve work to do?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of money to throw at this car.

[seth98esT]

Thats really low compression. Dumb questions, have you check spark on all the cylinders?

[skipjim]

There are no dumb questions with this @#$@# car =]

Yes we checked for spark on all four. The odd thing is it's firing one cylinder from each spark pack...

As far as the compression test I'm not 100% sure they did it per the manual (I wasn't there that night) but I guess the point is that the cylinders are all holding pressure.

[duh2150]

lets see, im gonan take some wild easy guesses.... are they even hooked up? lol to the packs?, are they all the way down into the engine? use a mutimeter to see if theres a full current can be conencted through the lines on plugs 2 and 4, its a problem with the wires it sounds like not the packs itself, if it was a problem with the pack it would at least have one working fully, its like really hard to believe that both packs and both side thingys are not connducting right..

check plugs
check wires
multimeter the wires
put them fully in press down a bit somtimes its hard to get in.. give them a good push lol youll here then snap in place kinda,
also see if the thinsg are in good shape
post pics :)

[lonestar22]

injectors? idk im an idiot

[Stewi]

Dump a cap full of engine oil into each cylinder and do the compression test over again, if the compression doesnt rise at least 10psi per cylinder, you either have bent valves, cracked pistons, or both. Like seth said, the compression #'s you posted are super low. The motor may still run, but it doesnt mean its not hurt.

[skipjim]

I'll have him check the pressure again tonight with the oil in there. When he told me the numbers the other day I started to wonder why they were so low, on the other hand the cylinder with the worst compression is one of the two that is firing.

I know he's got a meter there so maybe I'll check all the wires and injectors while I'm there too.

Pictures...uhg they're not going to be pretty. I'll see what I can do tonight.

What I'm trying to do at this point is avoid having him pull the valve cover off if we don't have to. Mostly it's denial because if we go that far I'm probably going to end up either yanking the engine and getting one from a junkyard (they take kids in trade don't they?) or rebuilding whats already in there. Either way is going to cost me more than I've got right now (buying a house next week).

I'll try and post more information and maybe some photos tonight.

Thanks for the advice so far.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Dump a cap full of engine oil into each cylinder and do the compression test over again, if the compression doesnt rise at least 10psi per cylinder, you either have bent valves, cracked pistons, or both. Like seth said, the compression #'s you posted are super low. The motor may still run, but it doesnt mean its not hurt.

He's not going to see 100+ PSI with bent valves. Even slightly bent valves will show 60 PSI max. That's a ring sealing issue, be it a cracked piston or just worn rings.

[RedGalant2k1]

Dump a cap full of engine oil into each cylinder and do the compression test over again, if the compression doesnt rise at least 10psi per cylinder, you either have bent valves, cracked pistons, or both. Like seth said, the compression #'s you posted are super low. The motor may still run, but it doesnt mean its not hurt.

He's not going to see 100+ PSI with bent valves. Even slightly bent valves will show 60 PSI max. That's a ring sealing issue, be it a cracked piston or just worn rings.

Though it doesn't tell you why its not firing.

I'd say ignition module. Though you should make sure the plug wires and coil packs are installed in the proper firing order.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Dump a cap full of engine oil into each cylinder and do the compression test over again, if the compression doesnt rise at least 10psi per cylinder, you either have bent valves, cracked pistons, or both. Like seth said, the compression #'s you posted are super low. The motor may still run, but it doesnt mean its not hurt.

He's not going to see 100+ PSI with bent valves. Even slightly bent valves will show 60 PSI max. That's a ring sealing issue, be it a cracked piston or just worn rings.

Though it doesn't tell you why its not firing.

I'd say ignition module. Though you should make sure the plug wires and coil packs are installed in the proper firing order.

I wouldn't continue to run an engine with low compression unless I absolutely had to. Excessive blowby (acidic oil, gas, etc) is extremely unhealthy for an engine (since it gets sucked back in through the PCV or breather hose) as is the unbalance of the rotating assembly itself.

[RedGalant2k1]

I wouldn't continue to run an engine with low compression unless I absolutely had to. Excessive blowby (acidic oil, gas, etc) is extremely unhealthy for an engine (since it gets sucked back in through the PCV or breather hose) as is the unbalance of the rotating assembly itself.

Granted, I wouldn't either. I was merely stating it doesn't solve the firing issue.

[skipjim]

As far as I know he's got the plug order correct.

I'm going to try and get over to his house tonight maybe I'll try and swap the wires around and see if I can get it firing on 1 & 3. My wife is supposed to be bringing the digital camera so I'll take a few photos too so you guys can all point and laugh.

I'm not terribly worried about the low compression (at the moment) I'd just like to get the thing back on the road. I've been begging rides into work from a coworker who starts an hour before I do, thats getting old.

From the look of things we might just end up pulling the motor and finding one from a junkyard.

[skipjim]

I can't believe I'm asking this....

Is it possible to mount the V6 rather than the 4cylinder motor if we have to change the motor?

[Sleepervr-4]

I can't believe I'm asking this....

Is it possible to mount the V6 rather than the 4cylinder motor if we have to change the motor?

Any thing is possible with $$$ but it isn't worth it. You would need to swap to a v6 trans since the i4 trans wont bolt up to the v6. You would also need the front subframe since v6 is different also motor mounts and brackets and ecu and harness and engine. Not worth it imo when you could probably get a v6 for 4k. When you factor in the price for all that you could have got a stock v6 and had money to mod it too.

[skipjim]

Thats what I figured, but with the v6 only being a little bit more money from the junk yard the thought crossed my mind :D

Hopefully I'll have some pictures tonight, my buddy is supposed to be pulling the head off in a little while.

[silver_beast98]

mechanical issues dont explain two plugs are firing and not the other two... i hope the head hasn't been pulled before you read this... now my buddy has a 2g and im assuming the ignition system is relatively simular.. does it have a power tr unit? if so i think thats the culprit because his went out resulting in the car running on two cylinders and always trying to boost because the unburnt fuel from the other two was igniting in the exhaust mani! i seriously hope you get this before you take the head off because it has to be something electrical...

p.s. if it has a power tr unit and that in fact is the prob, they are expensive to buy new, but if you go to a u-pull-it and say its a relay, you can get it for about ten!! :wink:

[skipjim]

Nope, I'm pretty sure that he hasn't pulled the head yet.

I'm actually wondering now if it's not in the wires. The two cylinders that are firing are the ones that run directly off the spark packs. The two that aren't firing are the ones that run off the wires.

If it's something that simple I'm going to have to shoot him I think.

Pictures coming up in a moment.

[RedGalant2k1]

Nope, I'm pretty sure that he hasn't pulled the head yet.

I'm actually wondering now if it's not in the wires. The two cylinders that are firing are the ones that run directly off the spark packs. The two that aren't firing are the ones that run off the wires.

If it's something that simple I'm going to have to shoot him I think.

Pictures coming up in a moment.

Like I said its probably your ignition module.

Btw, I just read you are in michigan? Just outside Grand Rapids huh?

Up for a January Lansing meet?

[skipjim]

Yes I know I'm probably sinning by posting images of a dirty motor, sorry if I offend anyone :wink:


http://webpages.charter.net/jimsadler/front%20of%20car.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/jimsadler/top%20of%20motor.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/jimsadler/timing%20belt.jpg

At least I didn't post photos of our new puppy :P

[skipjim]

Wouldn't the ignition module throw a code on the computer? the only thing that showed up there was for random misfires.

Yeah we're about 15 minutes north of Grand Rapids, I'm down there for work every day.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Yes, there is an ignition failure circuit built into the modules. The ECU should be popping a code. Check the resistance on the two wires first. They could be absolutely dead. Since they're so short, I'd say anything above 10,000 ohm and they're toast.

[skipjim]

We ran a scanner on it yesterday and it really didn't come up with anything.

My buddy is supposed to be checking the wires before he tears the top half of the engine apart. He's turned the motor over with all four plugs pulled out and all four are getting spark...

[RedGalant2k1]

Technically it should be throwing a code, but that doesn't mean it actually will be. I have some of my companies shops up in the Grand Rapids area that just got nice shiny new Snap-on Solus scanners. We have a Modus, and Mac Tool equivalent at ours 8)

In any case have you tried switching the wires yet? Or tried testing the coil packs to ensure those are working and you are getting spark?

Btw, the ignition module sparks two cylinders (those with coil packs) which would make sense that two are not firing, and coincidently the ones with coil packs..

[WarmAndSCSI]

The coil packs spark two cylinders - the host cylinder and the cylinder where the spark plug wire runs to. I'd expect one cylinder without a coil pack and the one connected to it to be misfiring.

[skipjim]

The two directly connected to the spark packs are the two that are firing. The other two, that run off the wires are the ones that aren't firing.

I wanted to spend a bit more time there tonight but my wife & son were with me tonight and they don't seem to see the draw in impact wrenches and oil for some reason (I almost had my son but there was this puppy you see....).

I'd really like to get this car back on the road, it's been an abuse victim in it's lifetime and it needs to rehabilitated. Some of the idiotic things I've repaired on this car over the last few years would scare you (the front coil springs were heated to lower the car, and the guy didn't even do that right). Don't get me started on what my wife has done to it....

[duh2150]

hahahahahaha! lololololollolololol! hahaha loo kat your wiring dude! the wires from coil pack 2 goes into 3 and coil pack on cyclinder 4 goes on cyl..1!

look at your second pick down

and look at my wires

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/duh2150/Picture002-2.jpg

keep the plugs in the same thing just connect them to the other packs swap them around

cylinder 2 should go with cylinder 3
cylinder 4 should go with cylinder 1

:)

[duh2150]

an d htye your spark plugs arnt sparking,, if you took them out they aint gonna spark you have to ground them out, i dont thin kyou grounded them, thats why theres a ground on the engine connected ot the block

[WarmAndSCSI]

an d htye your spark plugs arnt sparking,, if you took them out they aint gonna spark you have to ground them out, i dont thin kyou grounded them, thats why theres a ground on the engine connected ot the block

I hope you're right about this :lol:

[duh2150]

well its a guess i donno if he really groudned it or not but im assuming, plus his wires are dif in the wrong palce

[skipjim]

I hope he's right too!

Although that'll mean I'll need a place to bury a body..... :lol:

Hopefully I'll hear something around lunch time.

It still doesn't fix the low compression deal, but it does (hopefully) get the car running until tax return time.

[duh2150]

and for compression, put some umm, of that thread not stick sut, i forgot hat its called, not lock tight! so you can remove them easyer later, might hel pa bit if its leaking at the spark plug

how many miles do you have?

[WarmAndSCSI]

and for compression, put some umm, of that thread not stick sut, i forgot hat its called, not lock tight! so you can remove them easyer later, might hel pa bit if its leaking at the spark plug

how many miles do you have?

Aaron, you're an idiot. Seriously.

He's getting ring sealing issues. You DO NOT leak through the spark plug holes. I've never seen that EVER. The compression tester has an o-ring on it anyway to seal against the back of the head.

It's called anti-seize and it's purpose is so the spark plugs don't get fused to the aluminum head during heat cycling.

[skipjim]

It lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When we get it back together and running maybe we'll figure out the compression issue!

Dang spark plug wires...

[WarmAndSCSI]

I can tell you right now you're not going to "figure out" your compression issue. So long as the test was done correctly, it's probably ring sealing. Small drops in compression are always indicative of ring sealing issues. Do a wet test to confirm this: drop a capful of oil into the low-compression cylinder, wait several minutes, then test its compression. It should come up to be roughly equal with the two healthy cylinders. Do NOT pour too much oil in as this will ruin the check valve on your compression tester (I've done this twice now :lol:).

[skipjim]

We had some hope that the low compression test was more due to the amount of gas being sprayed into the cylinder and not burning....

At this point I'm just happy to have wheels again :)

[duh2150]

yeah im pro lol

[WarmAndSCSI]

yeah im mentally deficient lol

[duh2150]

lol screw you too warm dude lol, i fixed his car didnt I!? when it took a full page of "noobish" answers, i am master pro!!!! lol from the "Land of Gonan!"

[RedGalant2k1]

lol screw you too warm dude lol, i fixed his car didnt I!? when it took a full page of "noobish" answers, i am paster pro!!!! lol

If you didn't notice I told him to check the plug wires for the proper firing order before he posted his picture, just saying....

[duh2150]

humm well, you were wrong becasue you didnt give full discription and like 3 posts in a row about it :), i take your loots

[WarmAndSCSI]

humm well, you were wrong becasue you didnt give full discription and like 3 posts in a row about it :), i take your loots

Shut up. If only TGC had e-rep. You'd be far into the red. :roll:

[duh2150]

yeah i know everyone hates me

[Divinity]

yeah i know everyone hates me
dumbass :P

[skipjim]

I just wanted to thank everyone for helping to point out the obvious. I think my poor buddy had reset the timing on the car 5 times over the last week trying to figure out what he'd done wrong.

Now all I have to do is figure out why the gas gage isn't working (fuse? Sending unit in the tank?).

[cajunwarrior]

good job noticing the plug wires were wrong

[mrg7243]

good job noticing the plug wires were wrong

why would you revive a thread 2 years old just to say a smart ass comment?

[KaziKai]

why would you revive a thread 2 years old just to say a smart ass comment?

Lol



---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.126251,-115.142768
KAZIKAI
Sent from my 3G iPad 64GB using Tapatalk