Pogigreg's 7G Turbo Project

[PogiGreg]

Well, I decided to get off the bench and jump into the TURBO game. I've read all of the threads from everyone turboing their SOHC 4G64 to the 4G63T head swap and turboing it. So today I went shopping and got some stuff for a very good price. I actually couldn't resist it. I got a complete 4G63 engine , two turbo manifolds, a bigger intake, a TDO4HL turbo, and some other parts. So now I need to know the way to go. I planned of dropping in the 4G63 and turboing it. Is this a good plan? Or doing the head swap on my current 4G64 and turboing it. I will tell you though, this is not going to be a quick project. I have a little bit of a budget, and I would like to rebuild the 4G63 motor, and go to some Wiseco pistons with 9.0:1 compression. I dont want the Galant to be out of commission while I build up this engine. Here are some pics of what I got. I am looking for some advise and suggestions from everyone. (Especially DOHCstunner, 4-G-Rim, and Seth.) Thanks.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image001.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image002.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image003.jpg
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http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image006.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image007.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image008.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image009.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image010.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image011.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image012.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image013.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image014.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image015.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image016.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image017.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image018.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image019.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image020.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image021.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image022.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image023.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/image024.jpg

[Blue Ice]

What's your current setup. SOHC, DOHC? OBD1 or OBD2. I would deffinitely go back and get engine wire harness and the power transistor pack

[PogiGreg]

I am currently SOHC ODB1. That harness looks like a PITA and I would have to relocate my fuse box according to some posts that I read. Correct me if I am wrong, but I should be able to modify my current harness.

[4-G-rim]

We talked a little bit about what route you wanted to go and tried to give you some suggestions to help you decide what route. Doing the 4G63 swap is good...it has more potential to make power in stock internal form than a stock internal 4G64 if you plan to upgrade and make a little more power.

How many "known" miles is on that motor and its condition? If its still healthy I would freshen it up with new front seals, rear main seals, Tbelt, pulley's, valve cover and spark plug tube gaskets and drop it in and call it a day. A stock 4G63 with some good bolt ons and a good tune will make power to move a 7g and be fast.

If you want to build it up now whiles its out because you plan to go with a bigger turbo in the long run...then thats a good idea. Just plan you goal..and do what you need to achieve that goal. No need to spend $$$$ on things you don't need to achieve that goal.

Did you pull that motor out of a A/T 1g? I believe thats a 13b turbo because its stamped with the TD03. Thats a small turbo..smaller than a 14b. If I were you I would try to get a 16g or even a Evo III16g...it will make the power you want, hits harder and more effecient turbo if you want to run 15-20psi.

[PogiGreg]

We talked a little bit about what route you wanted to go and tried to give you some suggestions to help you decide what route. Doing the 4G63 swap is good...it has more potential to make power in stock internal form than a stock internal 4G64 if you plan to upgrade and make a little more power.

How many "known" miles is on that motor and its condition? If its still healthy I would freshen it up with new front seals, rear main seals, Tbelt, pulley's, valve cover and spark plug tube gaskets and drop it in and call it a day. A stock 4G63 with some good bolt ons and a good tune will make power to move a 7g and be fast.

If you want to build it up now whiles its out because you plan to go with a bigger turbo in the long run...then thats a good idea. Just plan you goal..and do what you need to achieve that goal. No need to spend $$$$ on things you don't need to achieve that goal.

Did you pull that motor out of a A/T 1g? I believe thats a 13b turbo because its stamped with the TD03. Thats a small turbo..smaller than a 14b. If I were you I would try to get a 16g or even a Evo III16g...it will make the power you want, hits harder and more effecient turbo if you want to run 15-20psi.

You know, I haven't actually decided which way to go yet. One thing is for sure, I am not going to just drop this engine in. I am thinking of stroking it to a 2.3. That is one route, or rebuild this one as it is. As far as the turbo is concerned, I was thinking of not too much boost. I am keeping the Automatic. I am having the transmission rebuilt now. My goal is around 220 HP. Not too much. I want to build boost around 3K rpms.

[DOHCstunr]

automatics are fun for turbo's because once you build boost you have it until you let off the throttle.
you never let off the throttle from 0-150mph on a auto car.
i'd get a nice vtrim t3/t4. if you want to make nice power on your automatic without a ton of boost.

[seth98esT]

Is that 4g63 from an NA car or turbo car? If its from an NA car, the block lacks the oil squirters for each cylinder. Its probably not the best block to start with, Id rather build up the 2.4l you have and dump that 1g DOHC head on it.

If you only want 220whp, then a stock internal 4g63t and a 16g will get you there no problem. A 14b wont have any troubles getting their either, but in my experience, you wont more turbo lag then what a 14b gives you, since your keeping it auto. And might as well try to find a high stall torque converter while you are at it!

[kolio]

get a nice 14b and some bigger injectors.

right now you only have 390cc injectors and a 13G.

[PogiGreg]

Is that 4g63 from an NA car or turbo car? If its from an NA car, the block lacks the oil squirters for each cylinder. Its probably not the best block to start with, Id rather build up the 2.4l you have and dump that 1g DOHC head on it.

It's a NA 4G63. So you're saying this wont work for turboing?

[kolio]

it will but cams and compression are different

[seth98esT]

It will work, but Id rather turbo a stock NA 4g64 then a stock NA 4g63. If I were you, I would just build up a 2.4L DOHC and turbo it. I wouldnt spend a ton of money on a NA 4g63 motor.

[PogiGreg]

It will work, but Id rather turbo a stock NA 4g64 then a stock NA 4g63. If I were you, I would just build up a 2.4L DOHC and turbo it. I wouldnt spend a ton of money on a NA 4g63 motor.

Seth, please give me the pros and cons.

[kolio]

short version is that the 64 can make more power. at least a shit load more torque

the internals are about the same as the 64

4g63 N/A
136 hp
13* tq


4g64 N/A
141 hp
146 tq

the 64 will yeild more power. i would recommend what seth said and wich is what i am doing. put the 63 head on the 64 block!

[seth98esT]

They are similar blocks, neither have the oil squirters that a 2g block have. But if your going to build an NA motor to be a turbo motor, may as well start with .4 more L of displacement.

[Blue Ice]

They are similar blocks, neither have the oil squirters that a 2g block have. But if your going to build an NA motor to be a turbo motor, may as well start with .4 more L of displacement.

Which would make sence since you were talking about stoking the NA motor. More oil to the pistons means better protection when you increase the boost.

Yes you can modify your current harness which is the tedious part. When i said pull the wire harness, i meant so you would have all the connectors in tact, from ecu to plug which makes installation easier.

In my opinion, i say drop in the 63 in turbo it, but don't build it. Figure out all your wiring bugs. Get used to tweaking that set up, while building the 64 with your pistons, rods, cams, 16g, dohc, blah blah and then drop that in.

[PogiGreg]

Does it matter if I get a turbo ECU from a Talon or an Eclipse?

[Blue Ice]

don't think it matters. but it does depend on if you want to stay OBD1 or go OBD2 for what year ECU you will want to buy. I went with the 95 Eprom ECU, but i had to convert to OBD2 to do it. I know DOHCstuner originally just stayed OBD1 and added a 1g ecu. so you have options.

[PogiGreg]

Today I started to take the engine apart. I am trying to go a little slow, take my time and document things that I have questions about. I need to know what these various sensors are.

http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0466.jpg
Like this one. What is this?

http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0467.jpg
I see the coil pack, what are the others for.

http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0468.jpg
And these as well.

[mko]

the sensor above the coilpack is your crank position sensor. Youre saying youre OBD1 so you cant plug this sensor anywhere in your current harness.

The other two sensors are temperature sensors - one for the gauge, one for the fan. You have then on your GAlant, but the thermostat housing looks a lil different

[PogiGreg]

Started some more deconstruction of the engine today, and when I took off the waterpump, I came across this. This don't look good. Are there supposed to be two wholes here? If not, can this be repaired?
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0476.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0477.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0478.jpg

[seth98esT]

1. CAS = Cam angle sensor. This sensor tells the ECU the RPM and spark signals.
2. Left plug is the power transistor. Right plug is connects the coilpacks to the engine harness
3. Sensors on the thermostat, I only used one ofthem, believe it was the one on the right for the water temp sensor on the gauge cluster.
4. The holes behind the waterpump look normal to me. The pump has to be able to pump the coolant throughout the block.

[PogiGreg]

I am planning on going and getting the engine harness from the donor car. Do I really need it?

[PogiGreg]

Today, I tool the head off. Now, I am preparing the block to go to the machine shop. Going in will be forged JE .020 pistons with 9:1 compression, and the machine shop will hone the cylinders and balance the crank.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0529.jpg
I also got my cylclone intake today. Everything is coming in.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0531.jpg
Also went on Summit Racing and got some ARP Head Bolts.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0533.jpg
My build is still in the beginning stages. I am shooting for a Labor Day finish.

[kolio]

nice!

[G-spot]

wow taking it to the next level 8)

[PogiGreg]

While my block and head are at the machine shop, I am trying to find a engine wire harness, and ECU. Since I am keeping my car automatic, is there any difference between ECU's out of an Automatic and a Standard? Also, would this harness work for me?

LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MITSUBISHI-ECLIPSE-TALON-ENGINE-EFI-WIRE-HARNESS-95-99_W0QQitemZ310041300070QQihZ021QQcategoryZ33583QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638 Q2em118Q2el1247)

[kolio]

no, you need one from a turbo

[bmore303]

I don't know if you're going for a 1g or 2g wiring setup, but this guy is selling a 2g harness set.

http://www.dsmsource.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=34117&cat=all

[PogiGreg]

Today, I spent the afternoon and the Pick-a-part, and I got my harness. Pulling that harness was a major PITA. The car was a 92 GS, according to the badging. But I am curious about something. The car had the factory body moldings of a Turbo. The speedometer, had a boost gauge on it. Could this have been a rare GS turbo? The engine was definately not a turbo, just a DOHC 4G63. It got me wondering, perhaps the original owner had a turbo failure and couldn't afford to replace the turbo, so the dealer or shop just made it N/A. I really don't know. Any ideas on that? Anways, here are some pics of the harness. All I need now is the ECU, and 6 bolt flex plate off the transmission. That is for next weekend.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/101_1796.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/101_1797.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/101_1798.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/101_1799.jpg

[DOHCstunr]

have fun with the rewire.

[Ruslik]

project looks nice

[PogiGreg]

Today I got my Evo 9 pistons, and I compared one of the pistons side by side with the stock 4G63 piston. What would be the advantage of the Evo 9 pistons. What I can see is the Evo pistons are aluminum.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/101_1801.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/101_1804.jpg

[ricky_db]

this is coming along nicely

[Lasthope05]

Today I got my Evo 9 pistons, and I compared one of the pistons side by side with the stock 4G63 piston. What would be the advantage of the Evo 9 pistons. What I can see is the Evo pistons are aluminum.


The Evo's are 9:1 compression and you are correct in your observations. It is a aluminum piston meaning it is lighter.

BTW I thought you were running .020 over JE pistons?

Also I think it is better to start off with a NA block if you are building an engine. NA block see much less stress than the turbo blocks and when you are using a forged piston the oil squirters become unnecessary unless you are pushing the motor nonstop as in a circuit race or autocross.

[PogiGreg]

The pistons are actually 8.8:1 just a little lighter. I decided against the forged pistons because I felt it was a little overkill, and I didn't want to spend that much, since these pistons only cost me $60. I go to get my engine from the machine shop next week. I had it hot tanked and honed. The head I had a valve job done.

Next step is to rebuild the transmission, and replace the torque converter.

New 16g turbo care of Turbocharger.com here in Houston. Everything is coming together. I will post pics when I pic up the engine next week.

[PogiGreg]

Ok, went to the Junkyard, again today, (my weekly therapy session http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/smilies/tongue.gif). I found the valve cover that I've been looking for on a 94 Ecipse GST.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0546.jpg
I was almost going to get it on Ebay. I got the "Mitsubishi" one.Well I didn't stop there, I went ahead and looked to see if the ECU was there. After getting into it, I found the ECU there, and guess what??!! It's another Eprom!!! So I went ahead and got it http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com//images/smilies/shifty.gif. Once I got it home and compared the two, the connections are different. I haven't gotten into my 7G yet, but which ECU will I need? What are the differences between the two of them?

The first pic is the ECU I got out of a 95 GSX Automatic.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0541.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0543.jpg

These pics are from the 94 GST 5-speed.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0544.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0545.jpg

As you can see the connections are clearly different. What does the 7G have? Which is the better one to use? Will they both work?

[mko]

It depends on what year your galant is. 94 -95 are OBD1 and they use 3 plug ECUs, or the secont one on your pics/94 GST/. 96-97 Galants are OBD2 and they have 4 plug ECUs, or the 95 GSX ECU. If you have 94-95 Galant and wanna use 95 GSX ECU, then you need to convert the Galant to OBD2, or just play with the 94 GST ECU.

[DOHCstunr]

botht he 1g and the 7Ga have three plugs yes..... but they are nothing alike.

count on completely rewiring your harness. thats what i did.

yes... thats a 72 pin harness you have to cut with a set of snips.

then resolder to the eclipse plugs.....


All kinds of fun.

[PogiGreg]

botht he 1g and the 7Ga have three plugs yes..... but they are nothing alike.

count on completely rewiring your harness. thats what i did.

yes... thats a 72 pin harness you have to cut with a set of snips.

then resolder to the eclipse plugs.....


All kinds of fun.


I've ready where some have done this swap without doing a complete harness change, and they only wired in the sensors they needed like the the CAS. Is is absloutely necessary do do the complete wire harness? Even BlueIce told me I can keep my existing harness and do some additional wiring. Just wondering.

[kolio]

I've ready where some have done this swap without doing a complete harness change, and they only wired in the sensors they needed like the the CAS. Is is absloutely necessary do do the complete wire harness? Even BlueIce told me I can keep my existing harness and do some additional wiring. Just wondering.


if you have a 97-98 wiring is very easy

94-96 takes alot more work. either way you keep your harness and just add on bits from the donor one.

[bmore303]

Regardless of whether you use the 1g or 2g ecu you'll be doing plenty of rewiring with the 94-955 7Ga. Also consider that the 7Ga has its Crank Angle Sensor in the distributor. I don't remember if the 1g's is integrated in to the CAS or not, but for a 2g setup the Crank angle sensor will have to be added.

[Lasthope05]

In the 1g ecu the CAS does have the crank angle sensor integrated into it.

[Lasthope05]

If you need any information for the 7ga wiring I have pretty much all of the ecu pinouts figured out already. I was first going to convert a 7g over to awd and figured out the wiring for the 94-95 so that I could use my 1g ecu with dsmlink but have put it on halt till I have time to start another project up again.

[PogiGreg]

If you need any information for the 7ga wiring I have pretty much all of the ecu pinouts figured out already. I was first going to convert a 7g over to awd and figured out the wiring for the 94-95 so that I could use my 1g ecu with dsmlink but have put it on halt till I have time to start another project up again.

So eprom do I use? At first, I don't plan on chipping it or anything. Which one will the 7G connect right up to?

[bmore303]

You have a 7Ga, meaning neither will connect right up sadly :( .

[Lasthope05]

Your going to have to grab the connectors from the 1g dsm and wire them all directly to your harness.

[PogiGreg]

My pieces are starting to come together now. I picked up my rebuilt and upgraded Turbo from Turbochargers.com. I now have a small 16g
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0561.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0562.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0563.jpg
I had a tough time finding rings for my Evo IX oem pistons, I couldn't buy them anywhere. I finally decided to check the dealer, and they are $50.00 for one piston!!! http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/images/smilies/eek.gif So I was lucky enough to get the JE forged pistons
85.5mm (.020 over), 9:1 compression, 22mm wrist pins. I got a steal for $240.00. No reason not to do it.
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0564.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0565.jpg
http://www.springwebdesign.net/Galant/100_0566.jpg
This started out as a simple turbo upgrade, now it is definately going to be a MONSTER!!

[StreetDreams]

If you need any information for the 7ga wiring I have pretty much all of the ecu pinouts figured out already. I was first going to convert a 7g over to awd and figured out the wiring for the 94-95 so that I could use my 1g ecu with dsmlink but have put it on halt till I have time to start another project up again.


Can you explain the wiring for that setup? I have a 95 Galant that I am swapping a 1g ECU into; I have some pinouts somewhere, but any further information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[lonestar22]

I am shooting for a Labor Day finish.

you finished??

[JDM4G64T]

you finished??

x2

[Lasthope05]

Can you explain the wiring for that setup? I have a 95 Galant that I am swapping a 1g ECU into; I have some pinouts somewhere, but any further information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

You're going to have to wait a bit. My desktop with the file took a crap on my recentlly and I have to get a new power supply for it. Once I get up back up ill send the file over to you. Just pm me your email address and Ill get back to you with it when I do.

[StreetDreams]

You're going to have to wait a bit. My desktop with the file took a crap on my recentlly and I have to get a new power supply for it. Once I get up back up ill send the file over to you. Just pm me your email address and Ill get back to you with it when I do.


Thanks; that info will be helpful.

[Blue Ice]

Sorry to leave you hanging as i have been busy with my own project( and simply forgot about this post.)

You can go 2 ways with your wiring harness and ECU options.

A.If you have OBD1 you will have to figure out which pins are the same and what needs to be added for the 1g ECU. Most likely the will be CAS sensor, Power pack, Coil plug, and Crank Sensor. Pretty much everything else (will probably be)is already on your 7g harness. The only thing i would be concerned about would be the sequence the plugs and injectors fire.

B. using your 95 Eprom ECU (OBDII) if you went this route you will need two complete wire harneses 2g Turbo, and 96-98 7g (both OBD2). [this is what i did] You will need the pinout diagrams for both 7g and 2g. Most of the pins will be the same, but you will forst need to add the above mentioned sensors, CamAS, Crank angle Sensor, power pack for 2g transistor, and coil pack.
Since you are using a 1g Cam AS, and a 2g ECU, you will have to use the Magnus 1g in a 2g instructions and change some pins and your spark plug wiring sequence for the car to start.

As far as wiring and soldering, there is a way around all that. get a set of the small computer flat head screwdrivers and
you can pull the pins out of the 2g wire harness and plug them into your 7g harness. i wouldn't worry about adding the wastegate selonoid control, and add a manual boost control or something else.

Hope this helps.

[PogiGreg]

Sorry I left everyone hanging, but plans have changed. Last month, I picked up a 1g Eclipse Turbo for $500. I had to get it. I decided to put my engine in the 1g. Also, the transmission gave out in my 7g three weeks ago, and it is currently getting rebuilt stronger, and a high stall torque converter. I haven't decided which way to go with the 7g. I will do either DOHC turbo or leave it SOHC and slap the 14b from the 1g on the 7G. Right now I am having fun driving the 1g. Oh, what to do.

[seth98esT]

Screw the 1g! Unless its AWD. Id take a turbo FWD 7g over a turbo FWD 1g anyday :)

[WhiteGalant]

x2
The 7g looks better

[DOHCstunr]

1g= money pit.
sorry bout your luck.

[PogiGreg]

I don't know about you guys, but for me I love the 1g. And it is by far no money pit. I like the 7g as well. I guess I have the best of both worlds then.

[XXL4G64]

I know it been a long time but i wanted to know did you get our 7g turbo at all if so could you tell me what you did.

[PogiGreg]

My turbo project went way off track when I bought my 1g. As you all know I bought a 4G63 motor which I was planning to put into my 7g. I went out and bought all of the goodies for this project when the 1g fell into my lap at a price I absolutely couldn't refuse. Well here is where I am now. I used the motor I built and put it into the the 1g. Since this was a simple plug and play. That project is almost done. I am waiting on some Dejon piping to come in. Now I have the original 4g63t motor from the 1g that I pulled out. I plan on using the head to put my 7g turbo back on track and do the 4G64 turbo. I have all the parts needed. I am going to have the turbo rebuilt. I am currently doing R&D on the distributor theory on the DOHC head. I'll post pics when I get this project going again.

[da1085]

man oh man......i ended up just like you.

i was starting a turbo build for my 7g then ended up getting a 90 gsx then a head on collision in my gf's cx7. then now i dont have both of my 7gens, but ended up with a 2005 mustang gt and a 90 gsx.

you should consider running DS-MAP. it's so awesome and i think it's way better than getting the safc or anyother "tuning" devices. plus if you do run it, even if your IC pipes come off you wont be standed. it's like running NA the whole time just with a turbo hehehe.