Fuel Delivery Issues...or lack of but doubt it

[SPD_FRK]

Alright this is on a V6 (6G72). I got the engine started up on Saturday and it sat at idle for a good half hour. I could shut the car down and start back up no problem. I left the car run for a bit until the cooling fan kicked on (so I could verify a working circuit with cooling system).

After I shut the vehicle down I left the car sit for about 15 minutes. The temp gauge still read fairly warm (not overheated or above half on the OEM cluster), but the car had a terrible time trying to start up. It will crank over fine but is unable to actually fire. I have already checked spark plug gap (all within spec from FSM), getting excellent spark to all 6 plugs.

Now here is the crappy part for me. Since my motorcycle accident last year I have no sense of smell. I pulled the plugs out this morning, they are in good shape but have moisture on them, unable to determine the scent I asked a co-worker and he confirmed they are soaked with gas. The car has sat inside the shop all weekend and when I tried to fire it up this morning it still would not fire up but would crank over. Going through the troubleshooting stuff I have narrowed this down to a couple options but uncertain at this point yet.

A) Faulty Injector/s thus why the plugs are wet
B) Faulty Fuel Pump



Anybody have a similar issue/known problem with this?

[diablos991]

Well if your fuel pump was bad, how would your injectors get covered in fuel?

You can test the fuel pump by testing the wiring harness going to it while cranking the car, you should also be able to hear it go while cranking.

The injectors could be faulty, but to me it seems like it is an ignition issue.
Check to see if you are getting spark out of the plug wires by disconnecting the boot and putting it near then engine block while cranking. There should be a spark arking to the block. (be insanely careful when doing this, you can give yourself a nasty shock)


Did you check all your fuses?

[SPD_FRK]

Well if your fuel pump was bad, how would your injectors get covered in fuel?

You can test the fuel pump by testing the wiring harness going to it while cranking the car, you should also be able to hear it go while cranking.

The injectors could be faulty, but to me it seems like it is an ignition issue.
Check to see if you are getting spark out of the plug wires by disconnecting the boot and putting it near then engine block while cranking. There should be a spark arking to the block. (be insanely careful when doing this, you can give yourself a nasty shock)


Did you check all your fuses?

I had a slight miss on idle when it was running and that can sometimes be caused by a faulty fuel pump not delivering sufficient pressure to the line. The other reason the spark plugs could be covered in fuel is from pushing the pedal all the way down on an attempt to fire.

It's not an ignition issue if;

I have already checked spark plug gap (all within spec from FSM), getting excellent spark to all 6 plugs.

All fuses are good, no other circuit issues and everything else works fine.

[diablos991]

Did your car overheat during the process or recently? I noticed you said it ran warm just from idling.

If it overheated it is possible that you warped the head and lost compression in a cylinder.
If not, then I would check that fuel pump.
If that checks out I would check the fuel pressure while cranking, and if that checks out, I would move to the injectors and remove/test them.

[SPD_FRK]

Did your car overheat during the process or recently? I noticed you said it ran warm just from idling.

If it overheated it is possible that you warped the head and lost compression in a cylinder.
If not, then I would check that fuel pump.
If that checks out I would check the fuel pressure while cranking, and if that checks out, I would move to the injectors and remove/test them.

As noted in the first post, the car sat at idle for about 30 minutes. This was so I could allow the engine to heat up and kick on the cooling circuit (turning on the fan). The engine did not overheat at any point.

[SPD_FRK]

Checked out the fuel pump at lunch. Have the rear seat removed, pulled the pump out and looked fine. Installed it back into the tank, turned key on and I can hear the pump prime the lines, also can feel with my hand on top of pump that it is running when I crank the engine. I am going to pull the feed line off the rail and check to make sure I am getting sufficient pressure to the rail and then take it from there I guess.

[WhiteGalant]

make sure none of the lines are pinched. Idk just a thought

[SPD_FRK]

Removed the fuel feed line and placed into a container today. When I turned the key to "On" to basically prime the lines I didn't notice much if any fuel coming out of the line into the container, also when cranking the engine fuel flowed out of the feed line but certainly did not seem to be an "optimal" pressure type supply coming out. I am still trying to locate my fuel pressure gauge so I can check the pressure for more detailed findings, but still a mystery lol.

[Ivory8g]

hmmm this one is stumping me. everything I thought of to check has been said....have you checked the o-rings might be torn and leaking.

[SPD_FRK]

hmmm this one is stumping me. everything I thought of to check has been said....have you checked the o-rings might be torn and leaking.

lol I just sent you a txt haha...I actually bought all new fuel injector o-rings along with all the other gaskets and blah blah blah.

[Ivory8g]

haha I just read your txt. wow so its not your o-rings then.....hmmm

[SPD_FRK]

I am just lost kind of since the car was running for a good 45 minutes total before having any issues. Even before the tear down the car ran fine, but I know injectors/pumps can take a crap at any point sometimes.

I know when I first started the car up I had sufficient fuel pressure to the rail because I was actually getting a small leak on the feed line where the steel line connected to the rubber line. We sealed the threads up and re-tightened the lines and the leak was gone and car had no issue starting up from there until later.

[seth98esT]

If the plugs smell like fuel, you are obviously getting fuel. Since the plugs smell like fuel, you are more then likely not getting any spark. Have you checked for spark on all 4 cylinders? That would be the first place to start. If you arent getting spark on two cylinders, its probably a coil pack. If your not getting spark on all 4, its probably a crank angle sensor.

Have you checked the timing belt? Done a compression test? You need to start eliminating things, Id start with checking spark.

[SPD_FRK]

If the plugs smell like fuel, you are obviously getting fuel. Since the plugs smell like fuel, you are more then likely not getting any spark. Have you checked for spark on all 4 cylinders? That would be the first place to start. If you arent getting spark on two cylinders, its probably a coil pack. If your not getting spark on all 4, its probably a crank angle sensor.

Have you checked the timing belt? Done a compression test? You need to start eliminating things, Id start with checking spark.
Ok;

Spark has been checked on all 6 plugs individually and each one has substantial spark. Plug gap is set per FSM (believe it was .041-.040") As far as I am aware there is no coil pack on the V6, all from the distrubutor, which as stated above is giving all 6 plugs spark as it should be.

Timing belt was replaced along with replacing cam gear for the Fidanza units. All timing marks were lined up, TDC verified with wooden dowel in the bore, also again with a bore scope. Compression also checked out fine on the engine and no signs of head gasket/bad rings.

I have checked the fuel pump and the operation is minimal if close to anything. In fuel injection systems (from other platforms and system experience) if the fuel pump does not provided sufficient pressure to the fuel rail, then when the injectors open they are not able to spray a "mist" of fuel, but basically only dribbles of fuel which can and often will result in "flooding" that chamber (in my case all 6). I have been talking with Ivory8G on this and also thought my conclusion was correct on the pump, but as you will read on you can see why.

The pump failure has also been backed by checking its voltage, and ground connections (I am getting a good 12v to the pump as I was when it had been running previous to this issue). When I primed the lines by turning the ignition to "On" the rail should have had pressure when I went to remove the feed line, in which there was no pressure. The fuel just drained out of the rail easily and no spray or signs of pressure. Again I checked the fuel pump operation by placing the feed line into a container, key into "on" position, very little flow of fuel, then again with cranking the engine and minimal pressure if any, but a light stream of fuel would emit from the feed line.

The fuel injectors have also been checked for the resistance between the terminals on each injector and all 6 checked out within the suggested limits, the fuel pump is not giving the correct pressure, along with what I explained above about fuel pressure in the rail being low and causing the "flooded" cylinders, myself and Ivory8g are almost certain that the culpret here is a failed pump.

[mko]

Did you check the FPR?

[SPD_FRK]

Did you check the FPR?
The FPR seemed to be doing its job fine when the car was at idle and even when engine was revved to 4500rpm. The engine didn't "hang up" on revs or drop off like it was about to stumble. Also since the amount of fuel coming out of the feed line, and no presence of pressure in the rail when the line should have been primed it didn't seem reasonable to look at the FPR as cause for no start condition