5 spd swap - clutch not grabbing, ideas? [Archive]

run1206

09-15-2009, 08:37 PM

ok, so as some of you may know i now drive 5 speed. Got the hang of driving "broken stick", but this afternoon i'm noticing that i can't switch into any gears. I notice fluid on the ground when I sit still for a small period of time. I've been talking to Roman and purchased stainless steel clutch lines from his tutorial (should be in tomorrow). I'm hoping it's only the clutch line expanding cuz it's rubber I wanted to ask any other people who have done the swap if you have experienced something similar (clutch not grabbing any gears) and what were some of your solutions. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance :orangesmile:

peanotation

09-15-2009, 08:53 PM

can you put the shifter into gear (as in, where it should be)?

what's the fluid level on your master cylinder?

run1206

09-15-2009, 08:58 PM

can you put the shifter into gear (as in, where it should be)?

what's the fluid level on your master cylinder?

fluid level's full. few drops of fluid on the ground but not sure if it's Synchromesh Tranny fluid, or brake fluid from the clutch line. earlier, the only way i can get into 1st from a stop is : 4th -> 2nd -> 1st. (sounds odd, is a sequence which helps me gets into gear before moving)

Stewi

09-15-2009, 09:50 PM

There are only a few variables to not going into gear, a bad trans or a bad master or slave cylinder or an improperly adjusted master cylinder. Drew there is no reason you should have to go into all those gears just to get back into first.

run1206

09-15-2009, 09:58 PM

i know. right after Roman got the car done with the swap, they couldn't get into first without grinding or stalling, so i had to start in 2nd every time. his said that since i'm using a rubber soft line for the clutch (which is stock), it might not produce enough pressure to engage the clutch.
:icon_confused:

i'm hoping it's not a bad tranny. i'll check tomorrow morning and take some pics as well.

mko

09-15-2009, 10:30 PM

I had the same problem when first swapped the tranny. It was the master cylinder, although I bought it brand new from a parts store. The push rod of the master cylinder was too short for some reason, but I got all fixxed.

4g63lover

09-15-2009, 10:39 PM

check the clutch fork and check if the hydraulics are adjusted properly.

Also, make sure the seals in the master are good. bad seals will make the master leak and not get adequate fluid into the slave to push the fork.

hopefully its not a bad trans. ::cross fingers::

run1206

09-15-2009, 10:45 PM

i noticed on my master cylinder, the flaps that hold the top down may be a lil loose. i'll go to the dealer on bike (or junkyard) to see if i can get another one.

check the clutch fork and check if the hydraulics are adjusted properly.

Also, make sure the seals in the master are good. bad seals will make the master leak and not get adequate fluid into the slave to push the fork.

hopefully its not a bad trans. ::cross fingers::
that might be a possibility, cuz the flaps on the master cylinder cap are a lil loose, so it may not be able to push the fluid to the slave cylinder :icon_sad: hopefully i can go get a new one soon.

01galant01

09-15-2009, 11:08 PM

check your pm's Drew

run1206

09-16-2009, 12:07 AM

responded 01Galant01, let me know when/if you can drop by.

GOOSEY2099

09-16-2009, 08:46 AM

There shouldn't be anything wrong with anything except the clutch line as i already told you.

run1206

09-16-2009, 09:42 AM

There shouldn't be anything wrong with anything except the clutch line as i already told you.

the line comes in today (scheduled delivery), so hopefully that fixes the clutch problem.
do i have to cut that line to a certain length, or is it pre-cut at the right length?

Stewi

09-16-2009, 05:12 PM

01galant01

09-16-2009, 05:41 PM

you cant cut it drew, just install it and be done, I dont think its your problem, but it cant hurt it.

I think your real problem is a bad master or slave cylinder, but do the line first and check it.

We changed the master out with a new one today, re-bled and still the same thing.

The pedal has alot of free play in it before it even feels like its grabbing the clutch. Tried adjusting the master cylinders link to the pedal but its maxed out.

Pulled the rubber back on the slave and its completely dry.

01galant01

09-16-2009, 06:26 PM

There shouldn't be anything wrong with anything except the clutch line as i already told you.

Roman as soon as the line comes in we are gonna swap it in.

mko

09-16-2009, 08:06 PM

He has exactly the same problem as I had when I did it, and i already had the SS line installed. I had to fabricate an extension of the perch that goes from the master to the pedal. I believe it was like 1/2 inch and then I adjusted the perch, so it doesnt damage the master.

Stewi

09-16-2009, 08:47 PM

We changed the master out with a new one today, re-bled and still the same thing.

The pedal has alot of free play in it before it even feels like its grabbing the clutch. Tried adjusting the master cylinders link to the pedal but its maxed out.

Pulled the rubber back on the slave and its completely dry.

Have someone pump the pedal and someone else watch the clutch fork and see how much it travels, the rubber line cant be expanding that much to where the clutch doesnt disengage

Drew, did you install a brand new clutch? What type of flywheel are you running? did any of you guys shim the pivot ball for the clutch fork prior to you guys putting the trans in the car?

01galant01

09-16-2009, 09:53 PM

Have someone pump the pedal and someone else watch the clutch fork and see how much it travels, the rubber line cant be expanding that much to where the clutch doesnt disengage

Yes, that was done before and after we re-bled the line. Comparing it to my car, the travel of the fork wasn't as great. The travel did improve to some degree, but still had that same feeling in the clutch. Just doesn't feel like a clutch pedal, there is way too much play before it engages.

run1206

09-17-2009, 08:34 AM

Have someone pump the pedal and someone else watch the clutch fork and see how much it travels, the rubber line cant be expanding that much to where the clutch doesnt disengage

Drew, did you install a brand new clutch? What type of flywheel are you running? did any of you guys shim the pivot ball for the clutch fork prior to you guys putting the trans in the car?

We installed the Fidanza clutch you mentioned. stock flywheel. i don't know if Roman shimmed the clutch fork or not (not sure why it has to be shimmed)

Stewi

09-17-2009, 03:18 PM

Drew before we speculate anymore, the leak needs to be fixed, just to rule that out. Shimming the pivot ball is not always needed. In fact of the 5 swaps i've done, I have only shimmed one car, which was my current 8g (when I still had the 3g trans) Your problem isnt as serious as mine, I couldnt get it into/out of ANY gears. if the SS line doesnt fix the problem then you can go the route of using an extended slave cylinder push rod, I ran one of those on my old setup too, I spoke with Roman about it earlier today, if you guys work on it and need help over the phone or if you need a last minute part or something just call me.

seth98esT

09-17-2009, 04:29 PM

When bleeding, do air bubbles ever stop coming out of the line? I bet there is a leak somewhere letting air into the line. Make sure you bleed the line properly.

01galant01

09-17-2009, 05:28 PM

I dont stop bleeding until I see constant fluid coming out the hose. Dont think thats the issue.

run1206

09-17-2009, 06:39 PM

got the 2nd adapter, putting it in the car right now. just gotta get the fluid out of the clutch. hopefully this does work, i'll let you all know the details.

run1206

09-17-2009, 09:23 PM

update: i got one side of the rubber line off (the side closest to the master cylinder), but the side closest to the slave cylinder is either stripped or totally rusted. Thus, i'm gonna get a new clutch (or brake) line tomorrow morning or afternoon. I'll see if my friend can use his flare kit and cut off the faulty end and flare it out with a new fitting, then screw in the SS lines for each side. I just finished talking to Qnzmostwanted on the phone, and we both agreed to go that route instead of getting a whole new line.

Slave cylinder: i'll check with Bell Mitsubishi to see if I can get a brand new slave clinder cuz the current one might not move the clutch fork as far out as it should to engage. hopefully it's not expensive. 01galant01's coming by tomorrow to help out as well. Nas, if you get this message, i'll try to get a new brake line before you come by tomorrow.

more details to follow soon... :icon_sad:

Stewi

09-17-2009, 10:14 PM

Drew dont waste your money on anything else until you get the line repaired. Its not the slave cylinder, save yourself the trouble and the money, I did the same shit, rather than diagnose the problem properly I replaced EVERYTHING between my left foot and the throw out bearing. In the end it was a waste of money.

run1206

09-17-2009, 10:23 PM

i know. the thing is i gotta get a new line for the side by the slave cylinder, the fitting wont come off the bracket connecting to the rubber hose. probably is stripped from trying to take it off today. will try to repair the line tomorrow.

Stewi

09-18-2009, 06:01 AM

Drew call me as soon as you read this

Stewi

09-18-2009, 06:26 PM

Glad you got it working Drew.......

4g63lover

09-19-2009, 02:13 AM

what ended up being the issue? I've been following this thread all week just so if anything comes up during my swap I'll know.

01galant01

09-19-2009, 02:29 AM

what ended up being the issue? I've been following this thread all week just so if anything comes up during my swap I'll know.

The stock rod on his slave was too short. He needed an extended rod. Wasn't pushing the fork far enough to disengage the clutch.

mko

09-19-2009, 03:40 AM

So, that probably what my problem was - shorter slave cyl rod. Well I got it solver differently. Good to hear you got it running

seth98esT

09-19-2009, 10:23 AM

Ivory8g

09-19-2009, 10:31 AM

so how'd you guys extend it? o_O

Stewi

09-19-2009, 01:22 PM

so how'd you guys extend it? o_O

LOL

Why dont you tell him Drew? LOL LOL

They have something in there acting as a rod right now until the new rod comes in monday/tueday. lets just say Nas' tool set is short a 12mm socket and a 3/8" extension.

Stewi

09-19-2009, 01:23 PM

Extended slave rod always seemed like a bandaid. You "shouldn't" need it. Did you use a new pivot ball when you swapped? If not, maybe it needed to be shimmed.

Either way, its working, go out and enjoy a drive :)

Seth your right but its so hit or miss with these cars. Of all the cars I swapped I only needed to shim 1 of them, its gay. When the trans comes out after he is boosted he can shim it

QnzMostWanted

09-19-2009, 03:12 PM

LOL

Why dont you tell him Drew? LOL LOL

They have something in there acting as a rod right now until the new rod comes in monday/tueday. lets just say Nas' tool set is short a 12mm socket and a 3/8" extension.

lmao ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!?!?! LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO

4g63lover

09-19-2009, 04:35 PM