AMP - SUB Issue.

[Colton5419]

Alright, kinda disappointed/or i'm an idiot.

I'll start with my disappointment. I just replaced my 300W Bridgeable Kenwood KAC-608S with a 600W MONO Class D Kenwood KAC-6104D.

It isn't hitting NEARLY as hard as the older 300W model.

What did I screw up? :icon_neutral:

[Mr. Suaz]

is it bridged?

[littlerick]

how do you have the speakers wired up? series, parallel? is it single or dual voice coil sub? how many subs?

[littlerick]

if its a class d amp it only has one channel right?

[Mr. Suaz]

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Images/Cache/1171_665_600.jpg

General Features
• Max Power: 600W
• Class D Mono Power Amplifier
• 2Ω Load Capability
• Power MOS-FET Switching Power Supply
• Cast Aluminum Heat Sink
• Built-In Low-Pass Filter
• Speaker-Level Inputs For Easy Factory Integration With Factory Stereo
• CEA-2006 Compliant
• 1-Year Warranty


Specifications
RATED OUTPUT POWER (14.4V):
• 200W RMS x 1 @ 4Ω
• (20Hz-200Hz @ 1%THD)
• 300W RMS x 1 @ 2Ω
• (100Hz @ 1% THD)


RMS POWER OUTPUT (CEA-2006)
• 200W RMS x 1
• (RMS @ 4Ω, 1% THD+N)
• 75dBa Signal-To-Noise Ratio


BUILT-IN CROSSOVER CONTROL:
• Variable Low-Pass Filter: 50Hz-200Hz (12dB/oct)


• Operating Voltage: 14.4V
• Current Consumption: 21A
• S/N Ratio: 94dB
• Frequency Response: 20Hz-200kHz
• Input Sensitivity: 0.2V ~ 5.0V


Installation Size:
• Width: 7-13/16” (198mm)
• Height: 2-5/16” (59mm)
• Depth: 9-1/16” (230mm)
• Weight: 4.0lbs. (1.8kg)

[littlerick]

and i thought most class d amps were 1 channel lol

[Mr. Suaz]

IF you just replaced the Amp w/ this, I'm guessing you haven't screwed around w/ any wiring anywhere else.

Play w/ the Amp settings... Up the Gain or something... Remember, when you have a Amp bridged it does produce more a thump.

Check your HU (head unit) EQ and Amp settings as well....

[Colton5419]

hold on while i show how i connected the sub to the amp.

[Colton5419]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2dl9gtf.jpg

4GA Power and Ground

REMOTE from back of HU

LINE IN RCA from from HU

GROUND TO TRUNK


I'm the one who originally installed/wired the system, so i'm pretty sure it's correct. I've just never used a MONO amp before.

[RedLine DOHC]

you sure that's not a 2 channel, my mono only has 2 sub outs,(pos-neg) cause if that's a 2 channel I don't think its bridgeable usually it indicates on the amp where to bridge.

of try moving the pos terminal to the other empty terminal...etc.. try moving those around.

[Colton5419]

I checked the manual before installing it like a bridge, it showed if only one sub to set it up like that.

[Colton5419]

UPDATE:

Opened the sub to see if it is the dual or single voice coil model of the MTX Thunder 5500.

It's the single voice coil at 4ohm.

- It seem's to be "cleaner" bass than the old 99' Kenwood.

I have the input sensitivity cranked, and LPF at around 115Hz

[littlerick]

its only 4 ohm so your only getting 200 watts. that might be why it isnt that loud

[littlerick]

also make sure its bridged

[Colton5419]

littlerick, my 300W Bridgeable Kenwood KAC-608S was only 150RMS when bridged, so the new amp should be louder at 200RMS.

It can't be bridged since it's a mono AMP, it only has 4 outputs since it can either be used by dual or single voice coil.

[ADExternal]

Your newer amp KAC-6104D is not bridgable, its a mono amp that can handle two single subs. So its kinda like a dual mono amp. Your older amp has a 300 max with 150rms brigde so im guessing 100 single. So your setup right now from the picture only pushing out 100rms which is of course lower then 150 and why it isnt bumping more like you want. at 4ohm you get about 200rms if you properly connect it. I do need to know the size of your sub cause mtx 5500 makes 4 diff sizes and diff rms etc. Ill explain more when i get this info

[fliegendaffe]

and i thought most class d amps were 1 channel lol

mono means 1 you idiot. but there are class d 2 and 5 channels as well

[littlerick]

where did i say mono didnt mean 1? all the class d amps i've ever messed with were 1 channel. thats the first mono amp that i've seen that has a place for 2 speakers.

[fliegendaffe]

i see them all the time. the reason why you usually only see class D as mono is because they are very efficient on power but not high on sound quality. Class A is just the opposite.

[Colton5419]

thats the first mono amp that i've seen that has a place for 2 speakers.

Yeah I thought it was odd how they show in the manual that you can hook up TWO subs to this MONO amp.

How weird.

[fliegendaffe]

Yeah I thought it was odd how they show in the manual that you can hook up TWO subs to this MONO amp.

How weird.

there are many amps out there like this. Alpine, MTX, Kenwood, etc. the reason why they do this is so the ohm load doesn't drop when connecting them to one terminal

[minesbroken]

you sure that's not a 2 channel, my mono only has 2 sub outs,(pos-neg) cause if that's a 2 channel I don't think its bridgeable usually it indicates on the amp where to bridge.

of try moving the pos terminal to the other empty terminal...etc.. try moving those around.
it is mono, the 4 terminals are for hooking up 2 speakers, its like a buss bar internally bridged.
I am a Kenwood dealer ;)

[fliegendaffe]

why are we posting on 3 different topics that have been dead and solved for a while now?

[minesbroken]

there are many amps out there like this. Alpine, MTX, Kenwood, etc. the reason why they do this is so the ohm load doesn't drop when connecting them to one terminal
The ohm load is determined by the way the sub woofers are wired, not the amp.
if you wire two 4 ohm voice coils in parallel the amp sees 2 ohms, if you wire the same two 4 ohm voice coils in series the amp sees 8 ohms.
doesnt matter if the amp is mono or two channel or 4 channel.
you hook up the 8 ohm load to the left front channel and another 8 ohm load to the right front channel you have 8 ohm stereo, if you have two 4 ohm voice coils in series hooked up to a two channel amp and you bridge it you still have an 8 ohm load.
you have just bridged the amp to 8 ohm mono.
same on a monoblock.
bridging the amp just uses both channels together on a two channel amp to make one more powerful channel.
this doesn't apply to a monoblock amp
for all intensive purposes
its already bridged internally.

[fliegendaffe]

The ohm load is determined by the way the sub woofers are wired, not the amp.
if you wire two 4 ohm voice coils in parallel the amp sees 2 ohms, if you wire the same two 4 ohm voice coils in series the amp sees 8 ohms.
doesnt matter if the amp is mono or two channel of 4 channel.
you hook up the 8 ohm load to the left front channel and another 8 ohm load to the right front channel you have 8 ohm stereo, you bridge the amp and you have two 4 ohm voice coils in series hooked up to a two channel amp and you bridge it you still have an 8 ohm load.
you have just bridged the amp to 8 ohm mono.
same on a monoblock.
this is not 100% correct. when bridging a 2ch amp, the ohm load does drop. being a kenwood dealer and all, you should know this.

[minesbroken]

this is not 100% correct. when bridging a 2ch amp, the ohm load does drop. being a kenwood dealer and all, you should know this.
your flat out wrong.

[fliegendaffe]

your flat out wrong.

LOL you're a funny person with all that red and just joining this forum within the past 30 days. and no, I am not flat out wrong. but you keep telling yourself that.

[minesbroken]

LOL you're a funny person with all that red and just joining this forum within the past 30 days. and no, I am not flat out wrong. but you keep telling yourself that.
I have been installing car stereo's for 23 years. I doubt your even that old. and you ARE flat out wrong.
you dont even know what bridging the amp does.
how would you wire two dual 4 ohm subs to get a 2 ohm load if your so smart?

[minesbroken]

that's what I thought...all talk!

[fliegendaffe]

Oh yes I am just a teenager. LOL

Hmm you really just asked me a novice question? To make a4 ohm dvc 2 ohm, you would need to run it parallel.

Sorry I am not looking at every thread every waking minute unlike you

[minesbroken]

Oh yes I am just a teenager. LOL

Hmm you really just asked me a novice question? To make a4 ohm dvc 2 ohm, you would need to run it parallel.

Sorry I am not looking at every thread every waking minute unlike you

wrong again dude, I asked about 2 dual 4 ohm voice coils.

I don't actually get on the forum much, but its so much fun to come on here and have someone be a troll on every one of my posts.

if you take a single 4 ohm voice coil and put it on a 2 channel amp bridged you have a 4 ohm load.

[fliegendaffe]

2 dual 4 ohm subs with a ending ohm of 2ohm is not possible unless you have a mono amp with 2 sets of terminals or multiple amps. And if you think I am trolling then think again because I get emails saying someone replied to such and such topic. Idiot

[fliegendaffe]

Now good night

[minesbroken]

bridging the amp just means using the right and left channel together as one channel. if you use 1 4 ohm sub you have a 4 ohm load bridged, if you use 2 in parallel it is a 2 ohm load bridged, if you use 2 in series its is an 8 ohm load bridged. bridging the amp is just the act of using the left and right channels together as one more powerful channel.
the subwoofers determine the ohm load.

[minesbroken]

2 dual 4 ohm subs with a ending ohm of 2ohm is not possible unless you have a mono amp with 2 sets of terminals or multiple amps. And if you think I am trolling then think again because I get emails saying someone replied to such and such topic. Idiot
idiot, it is impossible to get a 2 ohm load out of two dual 4 ohm subs. It is impossible nomatter what amp you have or what universe you live in.
your making a fool out of yourself.
you should really do more homework.
I really truly am sorry we got off on the wrong foot, but your wrong.
it's a common mistake though.

[fliegendaffe]

bridging the amp just means using the right and left channel together as one channel. if you use 1 4 ohm sub you have a 4 ohm load bridged, if you use 2 in parallel it is a 2 ohm load bridged, if you use 2 in series its is an 8 ohm load bridged. bridging the amp is just the act of using the left and right channels together as one more powerful channel.
the subwoofers determine the ohm load.
isn't that what I just basically said about the dvc? dvc is just like 2 svc subs


idiot, it is impossible to get a 2 ohm load out of two dual 4 ohm subs. It is impossible nomatter what amp you have or what universe you live in.
your making a fool out of yourself.
you should really do more homework.
I really truly am sorry we got off on the wrong foot, but your wrong.
it's a common mistake though.

no, if you have 2 terminals on the mono amp and 2 subs with the final ohm of 2 ohm per sub, the amp still sees 2 ohms

[minesbroken]

isn't that what I just basically said about the dvc? dvc is just like 2 svc subs



no, if you have 2 terminals on the mono amp and 2 subs with the final ohm of 2 ohm per sub, the amp still sees 2 ohms

thats what I've been saying. bridging the amp doesn't lower the ohm load, running the speakers in parallel does.
all the amp does when you bridge it is run mono no matter what ohm load you wire the speakers at.
the amp cant change the ohm load
only the speakers can.

[fliegendaffe]

i didn't say anything about bridging the amp on the mono block

[Prophet]

These are the only way I can see for you two safely wire 4ohm DVC subs...

Bridged
http://www.dnaelite.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1%7E0.jpg

Per Channel
http://www.dnaelite.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2.jpg

End of argument guys? lol...

[minesbroken]

These are the only way I can see for you two safely wire 4ohm DVC subs...

Bridged
http://www.dnaelite.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1%7E0.jpg

Per Channel
http://www.dnaelite.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2.jpg

End of argument guys? lol...

The dude is saying that how the amplifier is wired can change the ohm load that the amplifier see's when you bridge it to mono.
this is wrong.
your amplifier has a target ohm load, it makes it's power at this ohm load.
you wire the subs to your target ohm load
hook them up to the amp and it works properly.
if you hook it up wrong it works horribly.
nomatter how you hook it up...the amp sees the ohm load that the subs are wired for.
period.
the amp and how its wired up doesnt change the ohm load.
if the speakers are hooked up to produce a 2 ohm load
then the amp sees a 2 ohm load
wether you hook it up in stereo or mono.
thats my point.

[Prophet]

That is correct... An amp is rated at so and so power at this ohm load. You wire your woofers towards that rated ohm load to achieve that power rating. I have seen set ups wired at different manufacturer ohm loads but that is playing with fire and you had better know what you are doing...

Example: A Elemental Design NINe.1 makes 1,200 RMS at a 1ohm load at 12volts. I have seen set ups with a .5 ohm load working fine but the manufacture won't warranty it if something where to go wrong...

[minesbroken]

I build custom sub woofer boxes and design stereo systems for a living. Wiring up multiple subs is like blinking to me, it's something I can do now without even paying attention.
I offer to help people with correct wiring information
wire colors at the radio harness
at the steering column
I can get you wiring info on almost any car you need it for.
I can design enclosures
help with system questions and issues
and I come here and people with the wrong information get hostile
start trolling my posts.
got me pissed last night.
me and the other dude got off on the wrong foot.
he seems to know a little
but he is handing out the wrong information to people who don't know better.
I was just trying to help.

[Prophet]

I build custom sub woofer boxes and design stereo systems for a living. Wiring up multiple subs is like blinking to me, it's something I can do now without even paying attention.
I offer to help people with correct wiring information
wire colors at the radio harness
at the steering column
I can get you wiring info on almost any car you need it for.
I can design enclosures
help with system questions and issues
and I come here and people with the wrong information get hostile
start trolling my posts.
got me pissed last night.
me and the other dude got off on the wrong foot.
he seems to know a little
but he is handing out the wrong information to people who don't know better.
I was just trying to help.

Hey I am not knocking you for wanting to help... just trying to ease the tension that was happening in this thread... was getting a bit overwhelming in what you guys where trying to talk about...

[minesbroken]

Hey I am not knocking you for wanting to help... just trying to ease the tension that was happening in this thread... was getting a bit overwhelming in what you guys where trying to talk about...

Well, I appreciate it.
I have no problem with anyone here.
I joined a couple of weeks ago and so far I have had one dude troll my posts
and tell me I'm wrong when I'm not.
and another one tell me that my wheels are cheap knockoffs of his and they suck.
great experience so far ;)
I'm sure there's nice people too.
looking forward to meeting them...