USDM 7G V6 Possibilities?

[M-Rod]

I just want to bring up an idea that has been lingering in my head for quite some time now. As far as I know, it hasn't been done and I don't think I've even heard it being considered.

Although it's not the most simple solution, it could be a new progression and another option 7G owners may someday be able to accomplish.

Before bashing the idea saying it's not possible, or the typical huge price tag ideas everybody gets, let's think realistically.

The 7G Galant as we know, of course shares the same platform with the 2G Eclipse and using 2G parts has become a very typical and sensible solution. But what about the 1G Dodge Avenger and 1G Chrysler Sebring? (which also share the same platform) Both the Avenger and Sebring were available with the 2.5L 6G73. The same way that few 8G owners have went with a larger displacement 6G7x engine, some Avenger owners have ditched the 6G73 for the 6G72 from the 8G/3G. Just make sure to use the V6 subframe.

As far as the ECU and wiring are concerned, I could see this being somewhat of a challenge. The V6 Avenger ECU being used, would probably need to be hard-wired into the car depending if the harnesses and pinout are the same as the 4G64, and the V6 engine wiring harness would obviously be necessary.

Transmission? If the Avenger's automatic transmission doesn't sound good, possibly use the F5M51.

The biggest challenge holding this idea back quite honestly would be engine/transaxle orientation. Depending on your welding skills, I imagine it would be possible to weld the mounts to the opposite frame rails from stock to accommodate for the 6G7x. Then again, maybe this would be solved by doing this swap to a 2G Eclipse RS/GS instead of a Galant. (Keeping in mind the orientation of 420A-equipped Eclipses.

With that being said, I'm not expecting this to go anywhere. I just wanted stir the pot and bring a few semi-valid ideas to the table for discussion, and maybe someday see results from this.

Feel free to discuss.

[mko]

yes but no.

the Avenger engine is on the same side 3g/8g V6, and for that reason a new motor mounts on both sides need to be fabricated. Also, the front sub frame needs to be replace with one of Avenger so the rear tranny mount is a bolt on and not weld on.

They share the same suspension, but thats about it

The ECU is strictly Chrysler. They dont use MAFs and I bet wiring will be a bitch. Imagine the Avenger and Sebring are the same car as 2g Eclipse RS or GS but with V6. They also come with the same 420A in their lower trims as you said

If ever swapped, the 6g73 will need 3g v6 manual tranny, 2g N/A shifters- what a combo

Best way to have V6 in 7g is 3000gt engine+ECU swap

[Galant306m]

If i would consider doing that type of swap i would be using the 6g72 out of the 3000gt which mounts the same way just having to fab some new mounts for the front and rear trans mounts. the other two mounts are in the same locations, the front and rears i think are a little off not sure exactly.

[M-Rod]

Good points, mko.

Though, I do still think the mounts could be safely relocated one way or another. Doesn't mean it will ever happen, but depending on the fabricator, anything (well, almost) is possible.

Chrysler only ECU I see being more of a problem than I was expecting to find out. You think they wouldn't have designed their own, but I suppose at that point in time it was their only reasonable option.

I figured the F5M51 would have to be controlled by the 2G shifter and cable assemblies, yet have no idea if that's even possible depending on cable orientation, etc. As much as it could be feasible, it could be a disaster waiting to happen.

DOHC 6G72?!? Haha leave it to you 7G guys to have that idea going with your "orientation". All jokes aside, that would be a nice surprise to have tucked under the hood of a 7G. Seriously, if that was 100% known to work, I would probably be buying a 7G as we speak. Especially if twin turbo was incorporated in that.

As much as I want to think of something fun and different to possibly come up with, you guys are really killing my "mojo" for buying a 7G. I do understand the reasoning behind all these things that in 99% of the outcomes, never have a chance to work. Maybe I'm thinking too over-the-top, but it just seems so close, yet far at the same time.

[mko]

youll get hooked on the 7g man, youll forget all about the 8g

[Galant306m]

im pretty sure it will fit just have a jdm transfer case shipped over from a vr4 and you could be in some awd business.

[beam514]

Buy a 7G. end of story. LOL

And even if a DOHC 6G72 swap were completed w/o turbos, I think it would still be one hell of a car considering how light the 7G is

[Galanttuner10]

only v6 id put it would be a 6A12TT and there is a 6a12tt front clip on ebay i was considering

[kolio]

i thought about it long ago.

as stated above, the only real feasable option is the 3000gt motor.

once you start getting into all that work it becomes easier, more cost effective, and parts are everywhere for the 4G6X platform.

what i was thinking of doing was a 7G 6A12TT with RWD.

the only reason to do the v6 is just to be unique. but having a 7G is unique enough. i would truely love to see it happen one day

[Galanttuner10]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6a12-Front-clip-2-0-Galant-Vr4-Engine-swap-Motor-JDM-VR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3cab86fd0eQQitemZ260 575788302QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcces sories

[mko]

4g64t>6A12tt

[03-Galant-ES]

If cali can make a 2jz transmission with a 4g63 bell housing maybe he can modify the tranny to fit fwd flywheel and u can make fwd 2jz :-D

6A13tt>4G64T>6G72tt>6a12tt

[Galanttuner10]

4g64t>6A12tt

mko you are correct

and steve, i say 4G64T is the best of all as there have been many 64/63 hybrid motors that have put down over 1000hp. i havent seen a 6A13 do that

[evil-G-nius]

This has been kicked around before...I was one of them asking. I have seen the same 6A12tt clip for sale for a while myself. I have thought about it for years, but in the end the cost just doesnt make sense. The only way I would have a 7G with a V6 is import one...quietly. But the 3KGT as everyone has said would be your best bet here in the states

[mko]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/350751-eclipse-talon-6g72tt-awd-swap-pics-added.html

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/nabboy/l_a60ea741fa89435ab4a2f26ab0bc9027.jpg

[diamondragon16]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/350751-eclipse-talon-6g72tt-awd-swap-pics-added.html

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e134/nabboy/l_a60ea741fa89435ab4a2f26ab0bc9027.jpg




As awesome looking as that is, I wonder what it cost.

[trigunracing]

Hi guys, i haven't been on for quite some time. Unfortunatly my 7g Galant was destroyed by cops :-( good news is my new car has mitsu engine inside. I have a 6g73 2.5l v6 SOHC engine its a 98 sebring coupe lxi. My question for you guys is. Is it possible to put in a 6a13tt engine inside my car?. i've done some research on this and came up with the result that the chassis for my car is the same platform as the 8G galant. Is it 100 percent true? im not sure. My question is, if its true , is it possible to put that bad boy of an engine in the car? and what needs to be done. Any info would really help reason being i have a good price on everything.

[mko]

yes, it it possible

[skrap]

Yes but you might have to fab new mounts...

[trigunracing]

ok, so heres the deal. I have a price on the 6a13tt engine and tranny. it comes with the wireharness and ecu and all the components that comes on the engine. What is the best thing to do to get started. id like to get started on this asap. but one down fall i do see in this is the transmission. its an AWD tranny. any way you can still use that tranny as a FWD tranny?.

If this is going to take Waaaay to much time and money to do then i had something else in mind. is it possible to make my 6g73 just like a 6g72 sohc 24v ? , that engine comes standard at around 210 hp? . Some websites say that the two engines are identical except for these specs.

6g72 SOHC 24V
type 6O”V, SOHC (per bank)
Number of cylinders 6
Combustion chamber Compact type
Total displacement cm3 (cu.in.1 2,972 (181.4)
Cylinder bore x stroke mm (in.) 91 .I x 76.0 (3.59 x 2.99)
Compression ratio
Front wheel drive vehicle 10.0
Rear wheel drive vehicle 8.9

Type
Number of cylinders 6
Combustion chamber compact type
Total displacement cm3 (cu.in.1 2,972 (181.4
Cylinder bore x stroke mm (in.)91.1 x 76.0 (3.59 x 2.99)
Compression ratio Non-turbo 10.0

is it possible to just bore the engine out to the same specs as this and get the same results as the 6g72 engine? or do i have to change pistons cams etc....

Thanks so much for the info guys. really appreciated.

[trigunracing]

Any possibility i can put a 6g72 head on the 6g73 block and produce that 200 hp range?.

[mko]

just go for 6g74 off diamante. it will be a direct drop in.

6g73 with 72 head wont do shit. youd proly be better off with 6g74 and 63 heads with smaller combustion chambers

you cant bore it w/o getting the cylinder walls too thin or maybe even impossible. you have 6g73 bore which is 83.5mm and 6g72 bore that is 91.1mm. but ill have to say, they say its the same block just different bore, so it might be possible, but thats up to the machine shop to measure and all that.

[Shadow19]

Meh. V6 would add weight to the 7g. The 7g has potential as it is. 4g64t, 4g64 hybrid, 7 bolt 63t, 6 bolt 63t, and there are more that i dont know the code. Hell even just a little bit of work to the stock sohc motor will give you some gains. With minimal mods and very little cost i made decent power with my motor N/A. Ported and polished head, 11 lb flywheel, 60mm tb, balance shaft removal and a cold air intake i shaved more than 2 seconds off of my 8th mile time. Of coarse i did the work myself including the port work. I ran a 10.32 and ive seen stock srt4s and 2g turbos run 10.50's consistently. Pretty big mile stone for myself if u ask me, especially considering before i did the mods i ran a 12.64. Now with the turbo... Thats a different story ;-)

[trigunracing]

so 4g63t it is? or keep looking into the 6a13tt ?, i wish i could put a turbo with low boost on my 6g73 but every where i have looked , people say its impossible because there isnt any space inside the engine bay.

[Shadow19]

4g63t or 4g64 with forged internals would be nice ;-)

[mko]

so 4g63t it is? or keep looking into the 6a13tt ?, i wish i could put a turbo with low boost on my 6g73 but every where i have looked , people say its impossible because there isnt any space inside the engine bay.

for the money youll spend on 6a133tt, you better off getting a diamante 3.5 or turboing ur engine. since you have 2.5L v6 you can use some like B16g turbo and make lots of power, tuned with SAFC2 only. Dont listen what people say, you need to have a bit more dedication and creativity. here how usually the v6 are set for single turbo conversion

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/mko1234/v6turbo.jpg

All you have to do is to reroute some exhaust piping, drill the oil pan for the oil return line and find where to source oil for the oil supply line.

[evil-G-nius]

I'd just rock a Diamante and boost that shit. Or Boost the 7G with a 63/64 hybrid or straight 63t. A lot less hassle. If you want the 7G stick with the lighter 4cyl engines....less money and headache. Your choice, but you may get in deep thinkin it is an easy swap...which there is no such thing. LOL There will always be a problem, and since there hasnt been a v6 swap done here you will have no real support (only theoretical)on that. But with the 63/64 head swap and boost there are tons of guys here that can help...just a thought

[trigunracing]

let me understand both aspects from you guys, The first one about 2.5 turbo, so many people wanted to attempt this but they said there is absolutely no room to fit anything in. but i will look into it since the engine can handle the power.

Now for the 63/64, are you trying to say that i can take 6g74 head and put it on the 6g73? i was confused about that one.

[M-Rod]

Now for the 63/64, are you trying to say that i can take 6g74 head and put it on the 6g73? i was confused about that one.

I think you're just confusing yourself here.

4G63 = 2.0L DOHC 4-Cylinder
4G64 = 2.4L SOHC 4-Cylinder (Sometimes DOHC. Example: 7G Galant GS)

6G72 = 3.0L SOHC V6 (There have been many variations of the 6G72, but I'm only supplying info for the version from the 8G Galant and 3G Eclipse in order to keep confusion to a minimum)
6G73 = 2.5L SOHC V6
6G74 = 3.5L SOHC V6

Now realistically, you could take heads from the 6G74 and put them on the 6G73, but I don't think you would really gain anything. 6G72/6G74 heads are the same with the exception of cams, where the 6G72's cams are made for more top end than the 6G74's cams. As for the 6G73's heads, I'm not too sure. In theory, they would be the same with the exception of cams once again, but at this point unless you fully understand compatibilities between the 6G7x engines, you could find yourself in one hell of a mess.

[mko]

Swapping heads with different profile cams is more like N/A deal. It will matter if he goes turbo, but not as much

[remarque]

You guys do know that the 6G74 didnt come in the 1st gen Diamante. The 6G74 came in the Montero SR which was DOHC 6G74. Theres a guy who swapped his 6G72TT to a 6G74TT in his 3000GT VR-4. He had to order a JDM FWD 6G74 cause some of the parts for the RWD 6G74 wouldn't fit in the FWD frame.

The USDM 6g73 heads where designed by Dodge, but there is a JDM 6G73 with Mitsubishi DOHC heads on it. It can be found on ebay.

[mko]

Exactly, its 2.5L V6 DOHC 24 valve engine with or w/o MIVEC comes in 7g Galants

it looks exactly the same as 3000gt Vr4 engine, but it says 2500 on the intake mani

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YwRYjoITGYc/SQDv69-nwPI/AAAAAAAAEYw/lpuaYtz0vGU/s320/6G73+FF4WD+AT+KL7450.JPG

[trigunracing]

so what does that mean for me? What would be a good swap for my car since its the same chassis as the galant? really looking for a good project and have the time and money to spend. I have a winter beater to play with during the summer untill the swap is finished. , Turbo set up is to much from what people have said Mko, so i dont want to attempt something thats going to be way to difficult to do. plus , i would much like to have a proper turbo engine instead of building up the 2.5L Any advice Mko? u seem Very knowledgable about Mitsus.

[mko]

get a 3,5L 98-03 diamante motor and swap it in. That would be a plenty of power to play it to start with. then save up some money and do single turbo on that motor

[remarque]

The 2nd Gen Diamante engine is turned the other way, so your going have to fab new mounts. And I thought the JDM V6 7G was a 6a12. If the 1st gen diamante 6G motor is a direct swap and you want a 2.5l V6 heres what you do.

Buy a SOHC 6G73 from a 1st Gen Dodge Stratus, Dodge Avenger or Chrysler Sebring. These car are at every junkyard and you should be able to get a one cheap. Then swap the DOHC heads from a 1st Gen Diamante onto the 6G73. Im not sure about the ECU and wiring.

[mko]

Hi guys, i haven't been on for quite some time. Unfortunatly my 7g Galant was destroyed by cops :-( good news is my new car has mitsu engine inside. I have a 6g73 2.5l v6 SOHC engine its a 98 sebring coupe lxi. My question for you guys is. Is it possible to put in a 6a13tt engine inside my car?. i've done some research on this and came up with the result that the chassis for my car is the same platform as the 8G galant. Is it 100 percent true? im not sure. My question is, if its true , is it possible to put that bad boy of an engine in the car? and what needs to be done. Any info would really help reason being i have a good price on everything.


The 2nd Gen Diamante engine is turned the other way, so your going have to fab new mounts. And I thought the JDM V6 7G was a 6a12. If the 1st gen diamante 6G motor is a direct swap and you want a 2.5l V6 heres what you do.

Buy a SOHC 6G73 from a 1st Gen Dodge Stratus, Dodge Avenger or Chrysler Sebring. These car are at every junkyard and you should be able to get a one cheap. Then swap the DOHC heads from a 1st Gen Diamante onto the 6G73. Im not sure about the ECU and wiring.

He says he has a Sebring. All 95-00 sebring/avenger's engines are already on the opposite side in the engine bay, just like 8g Galants. These have 6g73, as mentioned, and is not the same engine used in old 3000gt/Stealth/Euro/JDM 7g Galants. As I said the Sebring engine has the same orientation as an 8g 6g72, so it makes sense to just swap it out with 6g74 out of 2gen Diamante

[remarque]

Oh didnt know that learn something new everyday

[trigunracing]

ive been searching around to find a 6g74 and dont see any around for a good price.... Everything is going around 2500 and up , thats ecu tranny engine etc... , for 2500 id rather just purchase an older Galant vr-4. Ne who tho, since the direction of my engine is the same as the 6a13TT, is it not compatible to go into my car? ive been looking around to see if i can use my tranny on that engine but can't find any information to see if the bell housing and bolts are the same . As for chassis its exactly the same as the new style vr-4. Reason i keep going back to this engine because its available , and an amazing price. only situation i see is transmission. The tranny they have available for the engine is the all wheel drive. The only Compatible Tranny in FWD is the FTO's Tranny. What do u guys think? i know i keep going back and forth. Im just looking for advice on this because i dont want to end up wasting money time and effort on something that wont work.

[The Vee]

I don't know if it helps you guys, but I'm running a 6A13tt FWD through a F5M42 gearbox. This box is from JDM / Euro 8G 2.5 V6 N/A. Bell housing is OK but youl need the N/A backplate.
Oddly I'm now researching to see if a F5M51 will fit mine as I need to fit LSD from Quaife or Wavetrac etc. Both companies list the 3G eclipse which of course is the F5M51. No mention of the 42.
Just a note, my engine transmission combo is in a JDM / Euro 8G.

[mko]

euro 8g v6 is a 6a13, so yeah its a bolt on for the f5m42 tranny. there are none of these in the US.

tranny off 3g v6 eclipse should bolt up too, but thats just a theory, no one has tried it yet because there arent many 6a13tt like there are in the UK.

[trigunracing]

so the 6a13tt In Japan are the same as the Euro version? and wheres is a good spot to buy the F5M42 tranny? if u guys know the link.

I also searched that F5M42 is also used in the 4g63 motor as well? correct me if im wrong, If thats the case, then i should be able to use the north american tranny for the 4g63 in to the 6a13tt with a few components so it may correspond to the 6a13tt engine. or is the theory totally off? lol


- The Vee
Did you do a swap from a regular galant to a 6a13tt? if so what did u do what did u need? You guys made me excited about all this now and im so close to putting in my credit card to buying the 6a13tt motor and accessories for the swap! . man aint nothing like a Mitsu i love there engineering friggin awsome! lol im acting like a teenager all over again HAhaha .

- Mko
Thank u so much for your help bud your knowledge base has been an asset to my search on everything. Major props to you and Amazing job to your car . makes me miss my Galant so much :-( .

[mko]

euro 6a13 n/a is sohc, the 6a13tt is dohc

the transmissions are the same, but there might be some differences in bell housings mounting points to the engine. i cant confirm this tho

i say that cuz i read the US 3g V6 transmissions have the same number as Evo 8-9 with 4g63, but no one has tried putting V6 tranny on I4 or vice-versa, i think

thanks for the compliments

[The Vee]

Yes I did swap from regular galant V6 2.5 n/a. The 6a13tt (dohc) was never made as a FWD so the gearbox coupled to them as standard is for AWD with transfer box etc etc. The V6 6A13 N/a FWD (F5M42) box does couple up OK but I did have to do mods like moving the front turbo wastegate actuator and the rear turbo had to alter the little cast downpipe to clear the subframe swapping flywheel and clutch was another plus a complete rewire and ECU. It's not a straightforward job, but it can be done. Not sure about USDM driveshafts though?

[The Vee]

Here's a link to my conversion

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12538&highlight=begins

There are a lot of unrelated posts in there but I hope it helps.

[mko]

i have account there but still no permission to see it

[The Vee]

Ah, sorry about that, probably my fault, it's in the members area. Slightly different set-up to these forums. I'm off to work now, but I'll see if I can do some cutting n pasting later.
As mentioned before though, this was an 8G conversion, just a little concerned how it would go in the 7. I do know however a similar thing has been done with an FTO, so that maybe worth looking at aswell.

[trigunracing]

Well my car's chassis is said to be the same as the 8g Galant , So i dont think that would be an issue, and if you could send me that link it would be greatly appreciated.

Whats your thoughts on this Mko? Do u think its worth doing this instead of the other swap or turbo u recommended?

[skrap]

Your Chassis is not the same as an 8G... Its the same as an 8G vr4 wich is COMPLETLY different! The 7G and the 8G have the motor mounts swaped so the engine is on the other side... Just becasue an 8G did it does not mean its going to be just as easy for you.. In order to do it you would probibly have to make custom mounts...

[trigunracing]

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/511/2641/26276320004_large.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/VR4-6A13TTengine.jpg

motor's are on the same side are they not?

[mko]

Your Chassis is not the same as an 8G... Its the same as an 8G vr4 wich is COMPLETLY different! The 7G and the 8G have the motor mounts swaped so the engine is on the other side... Just becasue an 8G did it does not mean its going to be just as easy for you.. In order to do it you would probibly have to make custom mounts...

Scott, he has a Sebring and if you read above I already said the they are the same as 8g World Spec. My 5 lug swap came off a Sebring since they a much less beat than the 2g Eclpses


http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/511/2641/26276320004_large.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/VR4-6A13TTengine.jpg

motor's are on the same side are they not?


do it man. just turbo it to feel the difference and then decide on the swap. once turboed youll get hooked

[trigunracing]

so what do i need for a turbo set up? , pistons? rings? ecu? gimme the break down . il attempt a 6g73 turbo setup i just hope i have enough space . every single person told me its not doable because theres absolutly no space to do anything, even if u relocate many items.

[mko]

none of that. Since you have 2.5L even a 16g would work for you. Just need to buy a DSM turbo flange, a 2 to 1 pipe reducer with 2.5'' outlet so you can reroute you exhaust pipes to the turbo. Then you need a 8:1 fuel pressure regulator (thats for 8 psi boost, if you want 10 psi you need 10:1 fuel pressure regulator). And Im not sure what type of fuel control do these ECU use since there is no MAF, I have to look it up. Then you need boost gauge and a wideband and a larger exhaust (if you havent upgraded yet)

heres the picture i posted before.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/mko1234/v6turbo.jpg

You dont put the turbo where the exhaust manifolds are. you need to get the exhaust flow to a spot that easily accessible. youll need a 90 deg bend because the turbo oil drain must alsways point straight down.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Exhaust-Y-Pipe-2-5-2-25-INCH-SINGLE-DUAL-EXHAUST-/360249316063?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e08852df

16g flange

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DSM-16G-14B-Turbo-Inlet-FLANGE-Stainless-steel-1G-2G-/380227676535?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588755e977

then you gonna need to drill the pan and make an oil return line and probably run at least 3-4 feet SS 10 or 12 AN line to the pan

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320502286397&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Of course blow off valve - 1g BOV is just fine.

Intercooler too. Side mount would be very sufficient.

Some like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-SIDE-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-SUPRA-MR2-MRS-AE86-CMARY-/150386871112?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2303c18b48



Youll need a welder (if you dont have one already) and some other tools.

Part wise, consider buying some weldable o2 sensor bungs, other flanges, pipes, IC pipes ( you can weld some exhaust piping), probably 90 deg bends, 45 deg bends,bolts, nuts, washers


thats a typical single turbo conversion for any FWD v6 and even 8g vr4. theres never enough space.

[trigunracing]

ive gotten some suggestions from mechanics and was told if this is done, even keeping it at low psi the engine wont last long. plus looking at the parts and fits i tried to see where i could fit everything and it seems not worth the effort... i still think 6a13tt is worth doing because of the pricing. 800 for whole engine and tranny with turbo set up and ecu? its the same price as buying the turbo setup for the current engine.

Confuuuuused!.

[mysticj]

How come I never came across this thread...
EU 7G Galant E88A has a 6G73 DOHC
https://www.thegalantcenter.org/showthread.php?43460-Mitsu-Galant-E88A-4WD-4WS-from-Poland
http://forum.mitsubishi-klubben.no/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2246