8G I4 Head Rebuild after timing belt snapped thread

[gnaunited]

I thought I would repurpose this thread after having figured out what the problem was.

Recap:
Car stalled at stop light
Checked fuel / spark / misc things, found nothing
Pulled timing cover and discovered belt not snapped, but shredded and wedging parts between belt and sprocket. This essentially did the same as strait up breaking in half.

Pulled head and had rebuilt.

I am now putting everything back together. I will post pics in this thread as I go so that others can use it as a reference.

How the belt looked when I got the pully off:
http://www.gnaunited.com/images/fark/timingbelt.jpg

[gnaunited]

Also, no check engine light

[Isaurio]

Where do you live?

It could be the alternator, if the weather is cold like here in NYC this things will happen. I had to change my battery like 3 days ago. I will check alternator, let someone give you a jump and see if the engine rev. If it does but stall it could be a alternator problem.

[gnaunited]

Actually been in the 60's in Denver. It still would not start with a jump from another car. Cranks but no start.

[Davidline]

How fast does it crank? and have you noticed any problems lately? anything strange at all? Like a different sound than usual? anything.

Also use the search, I did for you; Links-
https://www.thegalantcenter.org/showthread.php?t=41298&highlight=cranks+start
https://www.thegalantcenter.org/showthread.php?t=44151&highlight=cranks+start

[qnz]

injectors? Are u getting fuel?

[gnaunited]

I can smell gas after extended cranking.
It isn't a consistent crank, it chugs, then smooths out a bit, then chug. The next thing I am going to check is whether or not the timing belt skips a tooth or two, as well as camshaft / crank shaft sensors.

[gnaunited]

Also, I have been reading this forum thoroughly, but I am checking off each problem others are having. No blown fuses, no SES light, direct connected fuel pump to verify operation, no leaks, had battery tested + charged.

I was coming up to a stop light, when I stopped the engine just died. No stutter, no noises, it was as if I pulled the key out of the ignition.

[gnaunited]

So after further inspection, the inside of the timing belt is worn away, as in the belt is about half the width it used to be. After performing a compression test on it, I found that cylinders 2 & 4 have none to speak of. The next step is to pull the head the verify valve integrity and replace the belt(s).

[01blackG]

crank shaft positioning sensor sounds like it broke. Exspecially since the timing belt started to tear up. Same thing happened to mine but my belt was still in one piece. The sensor just crack for no reason.

[gnaunited]

Well, the head is coming off today so I guess I will find out.

[Isaurio]

Little advice. If you have over 80000 on the car. change water pump and oil pump while you have the timing belt off. You will save time and money. Water and oil pump are on the timing belt side. Also double check alternator belt.

[gnaunited]

The timing belt was stripping itself away, and it got wound up around the crankshaft sprocket causing it to lose time. There was quite literally a second belt between the sprocket and the real belt. I hope to install the new belt and do a compression test to verify integrity tomorrow.

[gnaunited]

Would there be any reason why the notch on the crank position plate would not be lined up with the painted spot on the sprocket? Can those two things turn independently of each other? Also, which one do I line it up with?

[01blackG]

Everything should line up. If im not mistaken there should be 4 things you need to line up. Crankshaft, oil pump balance shaft, cam shaft, and the second balance shaft. Browse the forums, there are some really good posts showing the way to replace the timing belt along with pictures. It is very very important to get the crank shaft and cam shaft timed properly, or else the valves will hit the pistons. And it is important to follow the instructions on how to get the balance shafts adjusted or else you will be ripping the whole thing apart again to get those right. I warn! do not just go in to the project with out knowing each and every bit of the project. Or damage will occurr to the engine or you will be taking the cover and belts off multiple times.

Good luck.

I did mine over the summer and with hand tools was able to do it in 4 hours.

[gnaunited]

Update: had to replace 8 intake valves. I also need to source some random parts that may have been destroyed when removing the head / intake. Oops.

[01blackG]

Ouch! Now we all know why they recommend a timing belt change at 60,000 miles.
Hope it all works out and starts up. Good luck!

[gnaunited]

Couple of pics:
http://www.gnaunited.com/images/fark/S7300426.JPG
http://www.gnaunited.com/images/fark/S7300427.JPG

[gnaunited]

The only problem I am running into right now is replicating the thermostat to throttle body water line. The angle causes the new tubing to crimp, so I am thinking maybe I just need to add an extra loop to the line.

Also, when lining up the balance shaft sprockets, you want it to naturally fall towards 9pm when set at 12 correct? I have been so far unable to correctly locate the so called plug in which to insert the screw driver.

Overall the thing that has surprised me the most is just how small the block is without a head on it.

[silversurfer]

buy the manual it schould be in the back. right behind the oil pan.i would also replace the crank shaft sensor is that bent there usually about $20 at the dealer.

[gnaunited]

Current Status:

Reattach the heater core hoses (need to determine which goes where as replacements are not molded)

Determine where mystery hose goes. From what I can tell it is a hose that follows the fuel lines and has an inline filter of some sort. Any ideas where this goes?

Timing Belt!

Add coolant + oil

Pray

Start Engine!

[gnaunited]

Quick update, got it put back together somehow and it started!

Right now there are 3 things that are wrong though.

1. It vibrates more than it did before. If either of the balance shafts are off by a tooth would that cause it to be rougher? Or could this of been caused by the pistons hitting the valves?

2. There is a tiny water leak coming off the bottom timing cover. I guess this means I have to pull them and find out where it is coming from. I hope it is just the water pump.

3. I broke the tensioner for the power steering and ac belt. Is this something I can order or am I better off going to a junkyard? Is it going to be the same tensioner on the I4 and the V6? Right now I just used a block of wood on the pulley but it is not nearly tight enough.

[John165]

Any more updates? Anyone else have anything to add?

Hopefully these issues are minor.

[shortdogg2k05]

1.Are all mounts new?

2.If you had water leaking from the lower cover, my guess would be water pump.

3.I would go to the pick a part and find one. I am not sure if the v6 is the same as the i4.

[gnaunited]

Thanks for the reply. The mounts are original, however I know it wasn't this bad before because I didn't have the glove box rattle problem.

[gnaunited]

Another Update:

Somehow the oil pump shaft was off by a lot after realigning the timing so I can pull off the belt. That would account for the excessive vibrations.

I found another tensioner, on of all cars, a Dodge stratus.

The only place the water leak could be coming from is the water pump. I am wondering if the gasket just didn't set right because it has been so cold out recently.

[01blackG]

Another Update:

The only place the water leak could be coming from is the water pump. I am wondering if the gasket just didn't set right because it has been so cold out recently.

Once leaking though they normally dont stop. I would try hunting down the issue and fixing it before your on a long drive somewheres and it decides to let loose big time.

[gnaunited]

The weird thing is that it is a brand new pump with a brand new gasket. And the original leak was tiny, I barely even noticed it. Even after sitting for 2+ weeks the pile on the ground wasn't even that large. Considering it took less than half an hour this time to pull the timing belt then I would rather have it go completely so I know for a fact where it is coming from.

[mko]

Another Update:

Somehow the oil pump shaft was off by a lot after realigning the timing so I can pull off the belt. That would account for the excessive vibrations.

I found another tensioner, on of all cars, a Dodge stratus.

The only place the water leak could be coming from is the water pump. I am wondering if the gasket just didn't set right because it has been so cold out recently.


so you do the screw driver method to lock the balance shaft in place and in phase. IF you didnt then most likely you'd get vibrations all the time even if you align the oil pump sprocket


The weird thing is that it is a brand new pump with a brand new gasket. And the original leak was tiny, I barely even noticed it. Even after sitting for 2+ weeks the pile on the ground wasn't even that large. Considering it took less than half an hour this time to pull the timing belt then I would rather have it go completely so I know for a fact where it is coming from.


Did you add a tiny layer of RTV on the water pump gasket, just to help it stay in place?

[gnaunited]

Yep.

[mko]

sooo, is it fixed... say some

[gnaunited]

Sorry about that:

The balance shaft timing mark was off considerably. I am still at a loss as to how that happened. Since I really don't want to have to do this again, I will be pulling the plug to check the alignment. The only worry I have is I think it might be behind the exhaust manifold.

The water pump did have rtv behind the gasket when it was installed.

[mko]

the balance shaft alignment hole is behind the header, near the starter

[gnaunited]

Ok, the balance shaft belt was aligned properly, I guess it only hits the mark once every 4 or so rotations of the crankshaft. I found the plug, it was partly obscured by the exhaust manifold so I had to use a bolt from the upper cover that was long enough but smaller than the hole.

I am just going to let it idle for a while without any timing covers on to see where exactly it is leaking from.

Thanks for all the help.

[gnaunited]

Updates Again:

I found I had put way too much oil in when I filled it to the point where it was pouring out smoke from the tail pipe. I was pissed about this cause I thought something else happened from the last time I drove it around. After draining out the excess the smoke cleared up.

The excessive vibration is also gone, it is dring much smoother now.

Even after tightening down the water pump bolts, there is still a tiny leak coming from the water pump area. I cannot see exactly where it is coming from even with both timing covers off. The next step is too pull it and redo the gasket.

I should mention I am only able to work on it Sat & Sun cause I work and go to school during the week and plus it is sitting in a garage about 15+ miles from my house. But thanks to all who have offered their advice to help me along with this.

[John165]

Well thats good the vibration is gone. Hopefully you just need a new gasket for the water pump.

Btw, how did your timing belt install go? Did the two special tools help out alot when you installed the front timing belt? I have yet to order mine. I was thinking about first trying like this other person did in another thread. Like using an allen key and some channel locks or something to put put tension on the tension pulley. Idk, I just might go ahead and order the special adapter tool.


Did you buy a new auto tensioner? Or did you have it compressed and a grenade pin or equivalent installed to it?

If you did have it compressed, was the other special tool (the long bolt that goes through the engine mount) still required?

[gnaunited]

The install was fairly easy. So far I have put it on twice, both times no problems.

The only special tool I got was MD998767, it is the one that swings the tensioner pully into place. It uses the smallest ratchet I have, but I did not have the torque wrench to fit it also so it was sort of pointless to order it.

I re-used the auto tensioner, compressing it in a vice. I would keep compressing it and it never seemed to move but eventually it was compressed enough to slide a small allen wrench though the outside and then through the post itself, then through the other side. Just make sure you don't go too far out the other side or else you won't be able to mount it properly.

I still have no clue what the other tool is for, the haynes manual did not call for it.

[01blackG]

Well thats good the vibration is gone. Hopefully you just need a new gasket for the water pump.

Btw, how did your timing belt install go? Did the two special tools help out alot when you installed the front timing belt? I have yet to order mine. I was thinking about first trying like this other person did in another thread. Like using an allen key and some channel locks or something to put put tension on the tension pulley. Idk, I just might go ahead and order the special adapter tool.


Did you buy a new auto tensioner? Or did you have it compressed and a grenade pin or equivalent installed to it?

If you did have it compressed, was the other special tool (the long bolt that goes through the engine mount) still required?

I did my timming belt and the only special tool I needed was an allen wrench small enough to almost do work on reading glasses. LOL I also used the old tensioner. Took some muscle to compress it but it does compress. And when the tensioner is bolted back into place if you put the 2 bolts back in a certian way you can start one bolt then swing the tensioner into place and then put the other bolt in.

[gnaunited]

So here is the conclusion:

I pulled off everything including the timing belt. I pulled the water pump, cleaned the surfaces, and used strait RTV gasket on it, no paper gasket. I rebuilt everything around it. Let it cure for 24 hours and filled it with fluid. Started it, drove around some, and then suddenly SES light. I thought this was funny because throughout the entire process it never threw a code. We have a code reader so we checked it, and come to find out one vac line wasn't hooked up to the EGR valve. Fixed it, drove some more, went to lunch, came back and there is no fluid anywhere on the ground or on the covers. I reattached the splash guards and called it good.

My G is finally home after 2 months.


http://www.gnaunited.com/images/fark/home.jpg

*Yes, there is cosmetic damage. No, it was like that when I bought it


After having gone through all of this, if anyone has any questions just let me know.