This Month's Import Tuner on Headers [Archive]

Fishboy55

03-27-2003, 09:12 PM

This may not be the right spot for this post, and mods, feel free to move it.

There's an article in this month's import tuner about a buildup they did on a 2002 Acura RSX Type S. They dyno'd before and after every mod they put on. The most interesting one was a set of DC Sports Headers.

Before Headers: 178.1 WHP, 127.5 Ft/Lbs
After Headers: 178.7 WHP, 128.9 Ft/Lbs
Cost $400, Total Gain 0.7WHP, 1.4 Ft/Lbs :shock:

That pretty much reflects the same crappy numbers we and the club3g folks saw on the Galants and Eclipses with RPW and Kamikaze headers. So it seems like bottom line, headers really aren't going to give you a bang for your buck regardless of who makes them or what type of car. Save the money for a better ROI if you're going to go the power/speed route.

Los

03-27-2003, 09:53 PM

Chip

Was that just slapping on the headers or did the car have other mods?

Auto-9

03-27-2003, 09:56 PM

I can understand for the RSX, it's already really free breathing, thus how it yields those HP numbers from a measely 4 banger. The 6g72 though is what's killing us.

VegasMatt

03-27-2003, 10:03 PM

I need the RPW headers to run with my supercharger, so far those with RPW headers are seeing more horsepower compared to those running the supercharger with other companies headers.

Fishboy55

03-27-2003, 10:08 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Los)</div><div class='quotemain'>Chip

Was that just slapping on the headers or did the car have other mods?</div>
There were other mods, but that was the Dyno result before and after the headers. They got like 10HP from the intake.

Lazarus

03-27-2003, 10:28 PM

After this I don't feel so bad...

FRCFD6

03-28-2003, 12:01 AM

reminds me of sport compact car back in 99 i think when they put upgrades on a ford probe gt and didnt see any gains.... some parts work, some parts dont...thats how easy it is. sometimes upgrade parts work on one car but dont work on the other....

Gilhuly

03-28-2003, 10:12 AM

I think the headers can provide gains, but not without ECU work.

Xavier22

03-28-2003, 10:43 AM

damn - not even 1 hp - our #'s were better weren't they?

Fishboy55

03-28-2003, 12:22 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gilhuly)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think the headers can provide gains, but not without Â*ECU work.</div>
What kind of ECU work were you thinking about? I had the headers with an AFC altering my ECU signal and still registered little or no gain from the headers without the AFC.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KinGAzteK02LA)</div><div class='quotemain'>damn - not even 1 hp - our #'s were better weren't they?</div>
No, not a whole lot. If I remember right, one of us had 1HP and one had about 4HP. Mante will remember the exact numbers. I was too busy being disappointed with my own. LOL

Mante

03-28-2003, 02:44 PM

HeadAche

03-28-2003, 05:26 PM

Damn well it seems, thats one mod that is still really up in the air for a lot of headz.. o well..

pinoyesv6

03-28-2003, 07:35 PM

yup i saw similar results when they did it to an integra way back...with dc sports headers.

Los

03-28-2003, 08:09 PM

now i hope this lays to rest the few idiots on the board AND IN THE 3GUNLIMITED group that still has it burned in there heads that headers make significant gains....The last person that decided to back something that wasnt true I embarrassed his dumb ass and personally dont have a problem doing it again....

the warning has been made public!

edited: my mistake whoops

Bernard who was that guy from 3g that was saying something ridiculous about the gains you could gain from headers. Did you post a link already on the 3g site to let him know he needs to run out and get that issue, cuase of the incredible HP gains from Headers....... https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif :wink:

Mante

03-29-2003, 02:26 AM

Fishboy55

03-29-2003, 08:47 AM

ahh I cant remember his name but its the hurb with the 3g,,red with the big Fake and fruity Wing on the back oh yea with a Nx sticker on the side. the kid sounds like he was from mansass's VA aka joke "umm I like the sticker cause it makes fast cars want to race me..." = he loses alot. Dia asked me to leave it be cause they were tight so I will hahah whoops to late. He said the rpw headers give a guarantee'd 40 whp hahaha when I said I can give/show him physical evidence he rather believe a website....dunce award goes tooooo...

And you wonder why I walked away while he was talkin....
Aww damn I'm sorry I missed that. You guys gotta let me know next time you go to Sports Authority. I'll show him RPW headers and my dyno sheet and if he can find 40HP somewhere in those pipes, I'll unbolt them and give them to him right there on the parking lot. https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

Auto-9

03-29-2003, 11:51 AM

HeadAche

03-30-2003, 03:40 PM

I'll show him RPW headers and my dyno sheet and if he can find 40HP somewhere in those pipes, I'll unbolt them and give them to him right there on the parking lot. https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

It's 40 hp to the psyche...the psyche I tell you!!

https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif , some people are just so stupid....

jiul

04-04-2003, 09:32 AM

Ok so spending 5 bills on headers will not get you much HP.
That's good news....LOL
But then why is the S/C crowd saying that they need them for the S/C?

Auto-9

04-04-2003, 10:10 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ok so spending 5 bills on headers will not get you much HP.
That's good news....LOL
But then why is the S/C crowd saying that they need them for the S/C?</div>

Because they're running forced induction. The reason why we believe the headers are not adding much gains is not that the factory exhaust isn't restrictive, but rather our engines themselves may be the reason. Once you start running forced induction, the intake and combustion restrictions are pretty much blown away, and you will want a freer flowing exhaust.

jiul

04-04-2003, 11:39 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rallifan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ok so spending 5 bills on headers will not get you much HP.
That's good news....LOL
But then why is the S/C crowd saying that they need them for the S/C?</div>

The reason why we believe the headers are not adding much gains is not that the factory exhaust isn't restrictive, but rather our engines themselves may be the reason. Once you start running forced induction, the intake and combustion restrictions are pretty much blown away, and you will want a freer flowing exhaust.</div>

I'm sorry, but.... what?

Dominicano

04-04-2003, 01:57 PM

what he is basically saying is that if you have a stock car with an intake and header and no turbo or s/c then you will not benefit from having custom headers. if a car is equipted with turbo or s/c then the headers are more neccessary for the engine to have more breathing room and is less restritive.

jiul

04-04-2003, 03:05 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(domielover)</div><div class='quotemain'>what he is basically saying is that if you have a stock car with an intake and header and no turbo or s/c then you will not benefit from having custom headers. Â*if a car is equipted with turbo or s/c then the headers are more neccessary for the engine to have more breathing room and is less restritive.</div>

Yeah we all know that. My question is why spend 5 hunch on headers when I can buy a turbo exahust manifold for less then a quarter of that price. If you are stuffing say 8 psi in the engine what is the difference if it comes from a S/C or T/C ? So again why are S/C guys saying that they need the headers? Wouldn't the cheaper turobo mani work just as good?
If not does anyone know why not?

Lazarus

04-04-2003, 04:43 PM

Yeah you can buy an turbo exaust manifold for less than half the price but you have to figure in the cost of the hte turbo, the intercooler bov, timers, wiring kits and everything. Besides the Headers were test fit headers.

Auto-9

04-04-2003, 06:01 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>So again why are S/C guys saying that they need the headers? Wouldn't the cheaper turobo mani Â*work just as good?
If not does Â*anyone know why not?</div>

I don't think that they are limiting themselves to strictly headers; they just need anything that flows more than the stock manifolds.

Messiah

04-04-2003, 07:07 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rallifan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>So again why are S/C guys saying that they need the headers? Wouldn't the cheaper turobo mani Â*work just as good?
If not does Â*anyone know why not?</div>

I don't think that they are limiting themselves to strictly headers; they just need anything that flows more than the stock manifolds.</div>

And plus...a SC is not mounted on the manifold like a turbo is...so getting a turbo manifold won't work.

jiul

04-04-2003, 07:41 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lazarus)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah you can buy an turbo exaust manifold for less than half the price but you have to figure in the cost of the hte turbo, the intercooler bov, timers, wiring kits and everything. Besides the Headers were test fit headers.</div>

What?
I am talking about saving money on the headers.
I never heard anyone putting BOV s on an S/C... but I guess...
I also am not convinced that putting an I/C on a S/C is right ( is it? I don't know if someone deos plese tell me)
My question is on the topic of this thread.
Why can't you run a 6 to 8 psi S/C with a turbo exhaust mani and have to pay 4 times as much on headers?

jiul

04-04-2003, 07:49 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rallifan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>So again why are S/C guys saying that they need the headers? Wouldn't the cheaper turobo mani Â*work just as good?
If not does Â*anyone know why not?</div>

I don't think that they are limiting themselves to strictly headers; they just need anything that flows more than the stock manifolds.</div>

Right, that's what I'm asking/saying why would the turbo mani not flow as well as headers ( at least streetable headers at this price range)

pinoyesv6

04-04-2003, 07:50 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>What? Â*
I am talking about saving money on the headers.
I never heard anyone putting BOV s on an S/C... but I guess...
I also am not convinced that putting an I/C on a S/C is right ( is it? I don't know if someone deos plese tell me)
My question is on the topic of this thread. Â*
Why can't you run a 6 to 8 psi S/C with a turbo exhaust mani and have to pay 4 times as Â*much on headers?</div>

so ur gonna run a SC with a turbo too? why would get u a turbo exhaust manifold with a supercharger without having a turbo? u'd have a big hole in the manifold if u forgot the turbo lol

Messiah

04-04-2003, 08:52 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lazarus)</div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah you can buy an turbo exaust manifold for less than half the price but you have to figure in the cost of the hte turbo, the intercooler bov, timers, wiring kits and everything. Besides the Headers were test fit headers.</div>

What?
I am talking about saving money on the headers.
I never heard anyone putting BOV s on an S/C... but I guess...
I also am not convinced that putting an I/C on a S/C is right ( is it? I don't know if someone deos plese tell me)
My question is on the topic of this thread.
Why can't you run a 6 to 8 psi S/C with a turbo exhaust mani and have to pay 4 times as much on headers?</div>

Dude...you CAN'T use a turbo manifold with a SC...a turbo manifold sits directly between the turbo and the block, they are design to drive the turbo, they have nothing to do with better flow...

the 2004 Ford lightning are SC and Intercooled...and most SC have some sort of built in release valve that acts like a BOV

jiul

04-05-2003, 10:02 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dragon300le)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rallifan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>So again why are S/C guys saying that they need the headers? Wouldn't the cheaper turobo mani Â*work just as good?
If not does Â*anyone know why not?</div>

I don't think that they are limiting themselves to strictly headers; they just need anything that flows more than the stock manifolds.</div>

And plus...a SC is not mounted on the manifold like a turbo is...so getting a turbo manifold won't work.</div>

What? The turbo is not mounted on the mani either, its after it.
Who the hell said anything about nounting a S/C on the exhaust mani?

jiul

04-05-2003, 10:24 AM

Piony you got it right, that's exactly what I'm trying to do, run a sequential s/c &t/c set up. Better yet I'll make a clutch set up and engage the s/c at will like Mad Max
.....NOT!

I don't know what hole in the turbo ex. mani you're talking about, the one I'm looking at has only 5 holes (aside from mounting holes). If yours has more then it's a crack, send it to me and I'll try to help you weld it https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

We are really talking in circles, the point is this. You all agree that the headers are no help if you don't pump the pressure. Now if we have a 8 psi boost its 8 psi weather you run a S/C or a T/C.
The turbo mani obviously provides good enough flow to run a hell of a lot more then 8 psi so it should provide enough flow for the pressure from a S/C as well.

My situation is this: I am putting the head back on my car this weak. I want to do some exhaust upgrades, but I don't know if I want to go TC or SC (leaning towards SC) so why spend the 5 bills on a headers and then toss them if I go TC. Or I could just put on a turbo exhaust mani with a custom (home) made DP (without the hole Piony) and save 4 hunderd
Again if a turbo ex mani has good enough flow for the TC why is it not good enough for an SC?

jiul

04-05-2003, 10:39 AM

the 2004 Ford lightning are SC and Intercooled...and most SC have some sort of built in release valve that acts like a BOV[/quote]

Dude I know diddly squat about the '04 lightning ( or anything lse https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). Did they suff a blown 64' in there?
I want to belive that running a IC with a SC is ok, that would be good.
I am still wondering about what RPW said that to lower temp you need to run rich .
What are the plus and minuses to doing that?
Also what boost do you have to have before that's a concern?