Young lady needs help with tranny probs

[apabbott]

Hello, all. I am a young woman that drives a 2005 Mitsubishi Galant es. It has been a great car, but very recently I have noticed some weird behavior when the auto transmission shifts into a lower gear. It happens rarely, and the car is drivable, but I fear it may turn into a more serious matter. I have noticed as I am slowing down and the auto trans. is shifting down that it is very loud and shifts very hard, with a slight hesitation, or jerk. It does this once and then seems fine, even if I accelerate and the slow down again. It does not do this every time I drive, and when it does act up, it seems to happen after driving for a while and the car is warmed up. Car idles fine, seems to shift fine when accelerating.

A little background, and please be patient, as I know very little about cars in general: I bought the car last year with about 97,000 miles and no maintenance records. At the time, no symptoms as I have described. This has only been happening intermittently for the past couple of weeks. I have kept regular maintenace myself, but did NOT have the trans. fluid changed for fear that it may have never been done before. I have read on this board, and others, that this should not be done on higher mileage vehicles that have not been changed or flushed previously. At around 100,000 miles I was told by a local car service center(during an oil change) that the trans. fluid was "dark" and needed changed. He said that they could do it there, but I would have to get the supplies from the dealer. I hesitated, and after inquiring online and talking to a couple of mechanics, decided against the change or a flush to be on the safe side.

The car now has 121,000 miles on it. I have never changed or flushed the trans. fluid. Now this is happening. Husband checked fluid level today with car warm and in Neutral, and the fluid level was full. Fluid looked very dark, almost black.

1. Could the dirty fluid be causing the problems, and should I change or flush the transmission fluid? Could doing so destroy my trans. at this point.

2. If no to number 1, do you guys have any idea what could be causing this? I am crossing my fingers and hoping this could be some type of sensor problem, and not the beginning of the end for my transmission.

Any advice is appreciated. We plan on taking this car several hundred miles in June for our vacation. Obviously we want this matter handled first.:icon_smile:

[RedGalant2k1]

The only way to service the transmission properly is to do one of two things.

1) Do a full and proper transmission fluid flush, using ONLY Mitsubishi Diamond SPIII Transmission fluid. A full transmission flush is done with a vacuum flush machine. It removes all the old aged ans useless fluid, and re-installs clean fluid, and friction modifiers that preserve the transmission clutch packs and flywheel.

2) Do a full transmission overhaul. Replace and obviously worn, or required parts. Replace and parts that are recommended, flywheel, clutch packs, etc. since the transmission is apart. Rebuild, and re-install ONLY Mitsubishi Diamond SPIII fluid.

Most likely the darker fluid color means the clutch packs are somewhat worn, and could truly probably use a overhaul. But, a full and complete fluid flush should do the trick nicely at only 121,000 miles. And don't let any mechanic tell you it is a bad thing to flush the transmission fluid. A Flush is complete, removing all old fluid contaminants, and filling with completely new fluid.

[4g63lover]

The dark fluid is indication that the fluid is getting overheated due to wear in the internal transmission parts like the clutch friction discs and pressure plates. If you flush the old fluid you will lose all the grit in the fluid that the trans is using as a friction material since the clutches are toast. Flushing the fluid could also dislodge some debris sitting in the valve body ports that could send fluid in the wrong directions when the solenoids opens or closes.

What I am trying to say is, if the trans is acting up and the fluid is dark and if its not throwing solenoid/trans codes you are looking into a full trans overhaul if not a new trans in itself. Whatever you do, do NOT flush that fluid, that trans will never act the same.

Just some food for thought.

This is how CRAZY the PCM gets with these adaptive strategies, We had a 99 Toyota Avalon come in for a radio and nothing else. We unhooked the battery and installed the radio. The car had 224,000 miles. We started the car up and the radio worked PERFECTLY! But the car would not go into any gear and would not move.

What happened is over time, as the clutches wore, the PCM was bumping the main line pressure to put more hydraulic force behind the clutches to compensate for the wear. When we unhooked the battery we wiped the PCM of all its adaptive strategies including the trans operations. Needless to say that car needed a trans and it wasn't evident to the owner because the PCM was compensating for all the wear. That car HAD to get a trans after that.

[RedGalant2k1]

What I am trying to say is, if the trans is acting up and the fluid is dark and if its not throwing solenoid/trans codes you are looking into a full trans overhaul if not a new trans in itself. Whatever you do, do NOT flush that fluid, that trans will never act the same.


This isn't accurate anymore (never really was to begin with). The transmission that is flushed COMPLETELY removes old contaminants and aged and worn transmission fluid. Replacing the fluid with the necessary friction modifiers still allows the transmission to act properly. In fact, transmission flush machine companies have so much confidence they'll warranty the transmission against failure for the first 30,000 miles 100% (at least S&S does). Trust me, after years of doing transmission flushes on cars of all makes, it works when done properly (nor would the company I was at in Michigan have spent $750,000 on transmission flush machines).

The problematic service is a drain and fill. A drain and fill service doesn't provide that ALL the aged fluid is removed and replaced. It also doesn't ensure that the proper amount of friction modifiers are replaced, or seal conditioner is used. It also matters what type of fluid is used. If you attempt using a dextron/mercon type fluid in our cars it has no guarantee to have the proper friction modifiers or fluid viscosity to work the transmission valve body, or torque converter properly.

[sthrnbumpn]

sea foam for automatics ,
i never had any issues like ur describing but i bought a can an put half in it drove it for a few miles, i could feel i diference in the firmness of 1st to 2nd,

then i drained th fluid as the directions said, changed the spin on filter added 3 or 4 quarts of synthetic import fluid (or whatever its called) an the rest of the seafoam .

im amazed at what seafoam did, it shifts very well

ive always heard that u could flush away what evers left of your clutch material with a fluid/filter change, i took a chance an so far so good

i would take this lil car to cali an back just like it sits, just have to put up with a shake around 70 mph lol

[Galant9GSE]

The problematic service is a drain and fill. A drain and fill service doesn't provide that ALL the aged fluid is removed and replaced. It also doesn't ensure that the proper amount of friction modifiers are replaced, or seal conditioner is used. It also matters what type of fluid is used. If you attempt using a dextron/mercon type fluid in our cars it has no guarantee to have the proper friction modifiers or fluid viscosity to work the transmission valve body, or torque converter properly.

Please don't take this as a personal attack but in this case you have it 100% backwards. Yes, the best form of a transmission flush that can be done to a vehicle is a "power flush"/"transfusion flush" using a flush machine as it's gets all the old fluid out and full capacity new fluid in. Drain and refill flushes are not the greatest as they only get a fraction of the old fluid out/new fluid in.

Apabbott, for starters, do you have a "check engine" light on? I would have a shop look into that to see if it's a tranny solenoid acting up.

Anyway, the BEST thing for you to try Apabbott is a drain and refill fluid flush. You will be surprised what that can do. If you notice an improvement then I would have two more flushes done after a two week period between flushes to get as much new fluid in there as possible. Yes, it will seem dumb but if you go the transfusion route you are guaranteed to need a new transmission shortly thereafter.

By going the transfusion route on a vehicle with over 80-100k miles that never had any trans fluid service, you are moving around all kinds of crap in the transmission that was just sitting minding it's own business not causing problems. Now you have this force moving that crud around and it gets clogged in the valve body, passages and other parts of the transmission. This is not the case when you flush at 30k or 60k intervals. The only transmission that I know of as of right now that has a "fluid for life" setup is the Toyota Prius and even then that would not sit well with me as an owner. Other than the Prius all cars should have their fluid changed at 30k or 60k, that is my belief and practice even though new car manuals can state otherwise. Good luck.

[apabbott]

Thanks for the responses. I am a little nervous about this whole thing. We are due to take a vacation in June with this car, which would be hundreds of miles. I am taking it today to a reputable transmission shop in the area, so we shall see.

[apabbott]

Just got back from tranny shop. The guy said that the trans isn't throwing any codes. He did state that while driving, he noticed a slight softness while the car accelerated and shifted into one gear, and he noticed the occasional hesitation when down shifting. I asked him about the trans fluid flush. He stated we could possibly be conservative and do that first, but it could potentially cause more probs. He stated the tranny fluid is dark black, which indicates to him something "inside is slipping" which is causing dust to be inside . He said a rebuild is going to cost $1400-1500. He also said a flush wouldn't guarantee it would help, but could possibly help, even though he reiterated that it could also cause probs. IDK, i'm thinking I want to start with a flush, but it sounds like a rebuild may be necessary. I just am leary because I hear so many auto trans. nightmare stories about rebuilds and chronic probs after.

[Galant9GSE]

Just got back from tranny shop. The guy said that the trans isn't throwing any codes. He did state that while driving, he noticed a slight softness while the car accelerated and shifted into one gear, and he noticed the occasional hesitation when down shifting. I asked him about the trans fluid flush. He stated we could possibly be conservative and do that first, but it could potentially cause more probs. He stated the tranny fluid is dark black, which indicates to him something "inside is slipping" which is causing dust to be inside . He said a rebuild is going to cost $1400-1500. He also said a flush wouldn't guarantee it would help, but could possibly help, even though he reiterated that it could also cause probs. IDK, i'm thinking I want to start with a flush, but it sounds like a rebuild may be necessary. I just am leary because I hear so many auto trans. nightmare stories about rebuilds and chronic probs after.

Sounds like you took your car to the right place and have recieved sound advice.

At this point you are overthinking things. Bottom line is a flush will either solve your problem or it won't leaving you to have to rebuild the transmission. Make the choice. If you plan on keeping this car for the next 2+ years and will actually use the car, in other words it's not going to be a train station car, then just get an overhaul done. It's cheaper than a new car payment!!

Now, this advice is based on the information you have provided. Assuming you have no other drivability problems causing the described issues. Good luck.

[apabbott]

Thanks for the advice. I have no problem spending the money on my car for a rebuild. My only issue at this point is the place I'm taking it to. I have read a couple of good reviews online, but have not heard from anyone personally about the shop's rep, although I do know that this place has been there for years and seems to stay pretty busy. I wasn't charged for anything during today's visit, and the guy seemed pretty up front. I'm just freaked because in 3 weeks we're going to be making a 6-7 hour trip(one way), and this is not a good time to be having trans. problems. I just hate having major repairs done right before we leave.

One more question. Do tranny rebuilds usually have some kind of warranty to back up the work? What is typical?

[RedGalant2k1]

Please don't take this as a personal attack but in this case you have it 100% backwards. Yes, the best form of a transmission flush that can be done to a vehicle is a "power flush"/"transfusion flush" using a flush machine as it's gets all the old fluid out and full capacity new fluid in. Drain and refill flushes are not the greatest as they only get a fraction of the old fluid out/new fluid in.

Apabbott, for starters, do you have a "check engine" light on? I would have a shop look into that to see if it's a tranny solenoid acting up.

Anyway, the BEST thing for you to try Apabbott is a drain and refill fluid flush. You will be surprised what that can do. If you notice an improvement then I would have two more flushes done after a two week period between flushes to get as much new fluid in there as possible. Yes, it will seem dumb but if you go the transfusion route you are guaranteed to need a new transmission shortly thereafter.



I don't have anything backwards. Let me just ask you a few simple questions? Have you ever performed a flush yourself? Do you know a drain and fill "flush" doesn't remove a single drop of fluid from the torque converter?

The ONLY method of flush to be done is through a 'transfusion' flush. In fact, I think you simply have misread my post, whether it was on purpose or not, I'm not sure. But listen, I've got at least a decade in the business, and most of that time includes doing all sorts of flushes (brake, trans, coolant, p/s), so I've dealt with all to many of these problems. I'm not trying to play the "I'm more experienced" game that I myself hate, but it bears mentioning simply because the anonymity of the internet doesn't provide the best method to converse.


By going the transfusion route on a vehicle with over 80-100k miles that never had any trans fluid service, you are moving around all kinds of crap in the transmission that was just sitting minding it's own business not causing problems. Now you have this force moving that crud around and it gets clogged in the valve body, passages and other parts of the transmission. This is not the case when you flush at 30k or 60k intervals. The only transmission that I know of as of right now that has a "fluid for life" setup is the Toyota Prius and even then that would not sit well with me as an owner. Other than the Prius all cars should have their fluid changed at 30k or 60k, that is my belief and practice even though new car manuals can state otherwise. Good luck.

I've serviced HEAVILY used commercial vehicles FAR in excess of 200-300 thousand miles, without any sort of transmission issues. See, and no offense, I don't think you've actually done a transmission flush. Otherwise you'd know what I know having been in the field for years doing exactly what I've already recommended. I'll also tell you this ANY VEHICLE THAT HAS NO TRANSMISSION DIPSTICK is a 'fill for life' transmission.

But, past that, what do you do? I'd suggest getting more information before you try to one up another person who's been doing it actively for years.

[RedGalant2k1]

Just got back from tranny shop. The guy said that the trans isn't throwing any codes. He did state that while driving, he noticed a slight softness while the car accelerated and shifted into one gear, and he noticed the occasional hesitation when down shifting. I asked him about the trans fluid flush. He stated we could possibly be conservative and do that first, but it could potentially cause more probs. He stated the tranny fluid is dark black, which indicates to him something "inside is slipping" which is causing dust to be inside . He said a rebuild is going to cost $1400-1500. He also said a flush wouldn't guarantee it would help, but could possibly help, even though he reiterated that it could also cause probs. IDK, i'm thinking I want to start with a flush, but it sounds like a rebuild may be necessary. I just am leary because I hear so many auto trans. nightmare stories about rebuilds and chronic probs after.

Starting with the transmission fluid flush is the best course of action. Here is why: The transmission fluid is very close to your engine oil. It has a friction modifier and additive package that wears over time. Once the trans fluid itself starts to fail it will allow the clutch packs and valve body to become worn, or fail themselves. Essentially the problem becomes varnish and sludge buildup (just like engine oil problems). The sludge and varnish buildup causes issues with fluid flow, precisely what a transmission flush removes (sludge/varnish) and restores (flow).

Mechanical issues are far more severe, and require rebuild. A good rebuilder should have that transmission performing as good as new, and no less. Even still, a flush should be performed first, and it may not necessarily solve the issue completely. But considering most manufacturers transmission fluid services are at 100k, you can bet that the clutch packs, and torque converter can hold up under normal service until that mileage (at least, if not significantly more).

But even past that, the color of the fluid is NOT AN ACCURATE condemnation of it. It only simply means the fluid is working as it should, and should if anything be flushed.


Sounds like you took your car to the right place and have recieved sound advice.

At this point you are overthinking things. Bottom line is a flush will either solve your problem or it won't leaving you to have to rebuild the transmission. Make the choice. If you plan on keeping this car for the next 2+ years and will actually use the car, in other words it's not going to be a train station car, then just get an overhaul done. It's cheaper than a new car payment!!

Now, this advice is based on the information you have provided. Assuming you have no other drivability problems causing the described issues. Good luck.

She received incomplete and partially inaccurate advice, but that is quite prevalent in the entire industry. In fact auto service shops have been SUED for making recommendations based only on the color of the fluid. Don't let me say "I told you so..."

[RedGalant2k1]

Thanks for the advice. I have no problem spending the money on my car for a rebuild. My only issue at this point is the place I'm taking it to. I have read a couple of good reviews online, but have not heard from anyone personally about the shop's rep, although I do know that this place has been there for years and seems to stay pretty busy. I wasn't charged for anything during today's visit, and the guy seemed pretty up front. I'm just freaked because in 3 weeks we're going to be making a 6-7 hour trip(one way), and this is not a good time to be having trans. problems. I just hate having major repairs done right before we leave.

One more question. Do tranny rebuilds usually have some kind of warranty to back up the work? What is typical?

Start with the transmission fluid flush. Ask that shop if the company that provides their transmission flush machine provides a warranty against failure. Then ask them to explain it if they do provide a warranty against failure. If they don't provide a warranty for the flush, or overhaul, find another shop. You'll also need to make sure 110% that they use ONLY Mitsubishi Diamond SPIII transmission fluid.

My vendor (S&S) provides a (30,000/100%), (60,000//50%), warranty against failure. Btw, don't forget that your car dealership also provides this service. And in fact most car dealerships do hundreds annually, if not thousands.

[Galant9GSE]

I don't have anything backwards. Let me just ask you a few simple questions? Have you ever performed a flush yourself? Do you know a drain and fill "flush" doesn't remove a single drop of fluid from the torque converter?

See, typical tech taking things all personal. Let me ask you, did you READ my first couple of lines in my original post? I NEVER said drain and refill is the best method.
I said In HER case it may be the best/safer solution given the higher milage. Yes, I spent 10 years working on passenger cars and performed plenty of transfusion flushes. Comparing commercial vehicles to passenger vehicles is just silly. I now work on work for a municipality performing repairs on 28,000+ pound vehicles. I'm not here to pump my chest, I don't need an Internet audience nor the ego boost. I work my butt off and make a real good living in these tough times and all I can be is grateful for that.
I experienced my fair share of high mileage vehicles have transfusion services performed only to need a transmission afterwards. This a FACT experienced by me and NO ONE will convince me otherwise, yes, not even you.


The ONLY method of flush to be done is through a 'transfusion' flush.

Again, stop with the silly statements. Transfusion should be the preferred method as it's the better way to get all/most of the old fluid out but it's not the ONLY method. Cars still have a tranny drain bolt for a reason but no one claimed it to be superior.


I'll also tell you this ANY VEHICLE THAT HAS NO TRANSMISSION DIPSTICK is a 'fill for life' transmission.

But, past that, what do you do? I'd suggest getting more information before you try to one up another person who's been doing it actively for years.

Err!! Pervious gen Ford Explorers, Volkswagen Jetta/Passat, as well as other older and current vehicles have "sealed transmissions" that are 100% serviceable. You may need dealer/special tools to properly fill/service them but they are not considered "for life" fluids. I'm surprised you'd make a ridiculous statement like that given how long you've been active. No dip stick does not always = for life fluid.

No one was trying to "one-up" you. Apparently it's your huge ego that made that assumption. I never said you were incompetent or the like just that I didn't agree with the recommendation in this particular case. I stand behind my unedited post above.


She received incomplete and partially inaccurate advice.

You make this statement yet don't expand on it. Tech never said she MUST get the tranny overhauled. He said that a flush may or may not help. Advice any experienced tech would make because while a flush is the first thing I would try in this case, I would not guarantee it will solve her problems either. Again, in thinking you are the authority in transmission service, everyone else is wrong. Maybe you would have worded things differently but that does not mean that tech is an idiot. You are bashing someone you don't even know. That tech may be one of the most honest techs out there.
Insanity:
1. the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind
2. such unsoundness of mind as affects legal responsibility or capacity
3. (formerly) psychosis.
4. extreme folly; senselessness; foolhardiness


But even past that, the color of the fluid is NOT AN ACCURATE condemnation of it.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/mooseepop/bb67ea26.jpg

You seriously believe that!? Seriously!? So you wouldn't use the fluid color as part of your diagnosis process? **notice I said part of your process rather than basing a diagnosis on that alone**.

I'm done here. Post your replies, "facts", graphs or whatever.... It doesn't matter to me, I won't feed this fire.

[sthrnbumpn]

im know u guys can work it out,

were all here to help, not cyber fight

[tamim13]

Just wanted to add here, if you go down the road of a transmission rebuild, you might want to look at the option of getting a used transmission installed, instead. You should be able to find one with low miles for about $500 and installation for another $500 or so. I went with that route and so far my used transmission has lasted me almost 80K miles. I bought my transmission from eBay, by checking the VIN number on Carfax etc, to make sure that the mileage listed was correct. At the same time, replaced the rear main seal, so that, that was out of the way as well.

As Dave suggested, if you plan to replace the fluid, use SPIII from the dealer only. It's a little more expensive, but prevents anything happening in the long run.

[RedGalant2k1]

See, typical tech taking things all personal. Let me ask you, did you READ my first couple of lines in my original post? I NEVER said drain and refill is the best method.
I said In HER case it may be the best/safer solution given the higher milage. Yes, I spent 10 years working on passenger cars and performed plenty of transfusion flushes. Comparing commercial vehicles to passenger vehicles is just silly. I now work on work for a municipality performing repairs on 28,000+ pound vehicles. I'm not here to pump my chest, I don't need an Internet audience nor the ego boost. I work my butt off and make a real good living in these tough times and all I can be is grateful for that.
I experienced my fair share of high mileage vehicles have transfusion services performed only to need a transmission afterwards. This a FACT experienced by me and NO ONE will convince me otherwise, yes, not even you.

Then all I can tell you is the process of the flush that was done was incorrect, or the problem was improperly diagnosed. It isn't silly to compare commercial vehicles to non-commercial vehicles, it is quite to the point of the benefit, and FACT that high mileage doesn't mean it is worse to flush the transmission.


Again, stop with the silly statements. Transfusion should be the preferred method as it's the better way to get all/most of the old fluid out but it's not the ONLY method. Cars still have a tranny drain bolt for a reason but no one claimed it to be superior.

You really shouldn't be servicing automobiles, no offense. If you allow your customers to have a improper qualified drain and fill performed (even as a less expensive alternative) to a complete flush, you are doing your customers a disservice. And in point of fact, it is YOU that are damaging their transmission. SO, yes, a complete transmission flush is the ONLY way to service the transmission fluid. Do you know why?


Err!! Pervious gen Ford Explorers, Volkswagen Jetta/Passat, as well as other older and current vehicles have "sealed transmissions" that are 100% serviceable. You may need dealer/special tools to properly fill/service them but they are not considered "for life" fluids. I'm surprised you'd make a ridiculous statement like that given how long you've been active. No dip stick does not always = for life fluid.

No one was trying to "one-up" you. Apparently it's your huge ego that made that assumption. I never said you were incompetent or the like just that I didn't agree with the recommendation in this particular case. I stand behind my unedited post above.

Yes, actually they are. Maybe you should check the service recommendations for those vehicles you listed. I know for a FACT that the Ford Explorer (per Ford) is considered a 'fill for life' transmission.

Silly noob.



You make this statement yet don't expand on it. Tech never said she MUST get the tranny overhauled. He said that a flush may or may not help. Advice any experienced tech would make because while a flush is the first thing I would try in this case, I would not guarantee it will solve her problems either. Again, in thinking you are the authority in transmission service, everyone else is wrong. Maybe you would have worded things differently but that does not mean that tech is an idiot. You are bashing someone you don't even know. That tech may be one of the most honest techs out there.
Insanity:
1. the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind
2. such unsoundness of mind as affects legal responsibility or capacity
3. (formerly) psychosis.
4. extreme folly; senselessness; foolhardiness

I don't have to expand on anything (even though I did). Nor did I say the technician was an idiot. Saying she received incomplete and partially inaccurate advice isn't calling anyone out to the floor for anything, nor is it me being egotistical. But sure, I'm insane. In the hundreds of transmission flushes I've done, not a single one resulted in a failed transmission. This is because I've trained my techs, and salesman to carefully qualify the customer and the vehicle. We cut our losses BEFORE we service the car if there is ANY sign of potential mechanical issues.


You seriously believe that!? Seriously!? So you wouldn't use the fluid color as part of your diagnosis process? **notice I said part of your process rather than basing a diagnosis on that alone**.

I'm done here. Post your replies, "facts", graphs or whatever.... It doesn't matter to me, I won't feed this fire.

When you get sued for condemning fluid purely on the basis of color alone (which wasn't me) you will think again, don't let me read about you on the 6:00 news...

But no, it would be a very small part of the actual mechanical condition diagnosis of the transmission. There must be more determined before condemnations are made.

EDIT: Ego has nothing to do with it, you can have it all for all I care.

[Galant9GSE]

I was done here but I just could not keep away. You, RedGalant2k1, are working in the wrong field. You should really be a comedian because you made me laugh my butt off when I read your response this morning.


You really shouldn't be servicing automobiles, no offense. If you allow your customers to have a improper qualified drain and fill performed (even as a less expensive alternative) to a complete flush, you are doing your customers a disservice. And in point of fact, it is YOU that are damaging their transmission. SO, yes, a complete transmission flush is the ONLY way to service the transmission fluid. Do you know why?

Spoken like a true Jiffy Lube salesman. Disservice? I guess you only sell Brembo brake rotors? Only sell Wagner ceramic or Hyper ceramic brake pads? I mean anything else would be a disservice.

You are everything that's wrong with the auto industry. You are stuck with old train of thoughts due to your closed mind and have disguised 'greed' with 'caring'. Your the reason folks walk into a shop for service and walk out with a $1300 bill.....do you smile at them and say "anything else would be a disservice" while they look over the bill? Customers should have a choice as everyone's financial situation is different. If all they can afford is a 'drain and refill', which is better than nothing, then who are you to FORCE your beliefs on them. I say 'force' because it's apparent by your statements that people don't have choices when they walk through your doors. A mistake they will make once as places like that don't have a big customer base.



And in point of fact, it is YOU that are damaging their transmission. SO, yes, a complete transmission flush is the ONLY way to service the transmission fluid. Do you know why?

So, when someone comes in for an oil change I guess you refuse to do anything other than an engine flush. I mean, a drain and refill will get most of the old oil out but there is still some in there.......anything else would be a disservice and cause damage.



Yes, actually they are. Maybe you should check the service recommendations for those vehicles you listed. I know for a FACT that the Ford Explorer (per Ford) is considered a 'fill for life' transmission.

Ha, here is a partially uninformed person calling someone else a noob. Funniest. Thing. Ever!
You know what the real beauty of this whole thing is?..... I mean the real beauty? All that you have written is captured here for as long as this forum is in existence, it will even pop up on Google. You may bamboozle the inexperienced with half truths and half lies but there will be guys like me to inform the public to take advice like yours with caution.



In the hundreds of transmission flushes I've done, not a single one resulted in a failed transmission. This is because I've trained my techs, and salesman to carefully qualify the customer and the vehicle. We cut our losses BEFORE we service the car if there is ANY sign of potential mechanical issues.

I wouldn't come on here and tout on how great your services have been or how many 'hundreds' you've done given what you've posted. What training have your techs received to 'carefully qualify' customer vehicles? Because aside for an obvious slipping transmission your answer across the board seems to be"power flush". Don't make it seem like you guys are splitting atoms over there.



When you get sued for condemning fluid purely on the basis of color alone (which wasn't me) you will think again, don't let me read about you on the 6:00 news...

I'm starting to doubt your english reading and comprehension skills. No one in this thread condemned a tranny based fluid color. Second time you mention getting sued, I would be more concerned about keeping up to date with automotive procedures than what you may see on the 6:00 news if I were you. Apparently, there have been vehicles come by your shop and not have transmission services performed because you mistakenly assumed NO DIP STICK = SEALED TRANSMISSION = AUTOMATICALLY NO SERVICE NEEDED. EVER. Also, who "reads" the 6:00 news.....


But no, it would be a very small part of the actual mechanical condition diagnosis of the transmission. There must be more determined before condemnations are made.

No one questioned how big a role fluid color would play. As throughout this thread, you've been making assumptions, wrong at that.



Nor did I say the technician was an idiot. Saying she received incomplete and partially inaccurate advice isn't calling anyone out to the floor for anything, nor is it me being egotistical.

Apparently it is calling someone out. Let's see some quotes...........


Please don't take this as a personal attack but in this case you have it 100% backwards.


But, past that, what do you do? I'd suggest getting more information before you try to one up another person who's been doing it actively for years.

If I tried to "one-up" you then it's safe to assume you called that other tech an idiot. I'm merely adhering to the standards set by YOU in this thread.

[apabbott]

Well, still waiting to hear back from the trans. shop. I called him this morning and he has been out of the shop due to a family event(new grandchild). He is supposed to call me today with some estimates of a rebuild, or a flush. I have talked it over with my husband and have decided to have the rebuild right now, if needed. I don't want to take any chances while on the road, and at least with the rebuild I will have a warranty to travel with me if things turn south on me during the trip. I plan on keeping this car for as long as possible, so I think it is the only way to go. Hopefully he can get to it in time.

I have heard a couple more good reviews of this guy's work since I spoke to him last, which makes me feel even better. Fingers crossed that the work is done right and that I get my car in and out of the shop before June 6th.

[RedGalant2k1]

I was done here but I just could not keep away. You, RedGalant2k1, are working in the wrong field. You should really be a comedian because you made me laugh my butt off when I read your response this morning.

Glad I could help you enjoy life a little, wish you would enjoy things a little more...but hey.


Spoken like a true Jiffy Lube salesman. Disservice? I guess you only sell Brembo brake rotors? Only sell Wagner ceramic or Hyper ceramic brake pads? I mean anything else would be a disservice.

I am no Jiffy Lube salesman.


You are everything that's wrong with the auto industry. You are stuck with old train of thoughts due to your closed mind and have disguised 'greed' with 'caring'. Your the reason folks walk into a shop for service and walk out with a $1300 bill.....do you smile at them and say "anything else would be a disservice" while they look over the bill? Customers should have a choice as everyone's financial situation is different. If all they can afford is a 'drain and refill', which is better than nothing, then who are you to FORCE your beliefs on them. I say 'force' because it's apparent by your statements that people don't have choices when they walk through your doors. A mistake they will make once as places like that don't have a big customer base.

Let me see, so I'm am the one who is being careless because I present the complete options for the customers, with COMPLETE AND PROPER methods of service, and let them decide from there. Doing that, you believe that *I* am forcing them into a decision or else, well that is your own unfounded belief, and that is completely disingenuous. I have a huge customer base, and many that are quite satisfied.

As for my level of customer service? I guarantee my customers are far more satisfied that we did the right job the first time. I don't force them into any decisions they are not comfortable with. But, whats even better, is that I don't have to explain myself to you in the slightest.


So, when someone comes in for an oil change I guess you refuse to do anything other than an engine flush. I mean, a drain and refill will get most of the old oil out but there is still some in there.......anything else would be a disservice and cause damage.


Well, now you are actually getting closer to properly servicing your customers vehicles, good for you! One day, you may actually provide total and complete satisfaction to your customers.


Ha, here is a partially uninformed person calling someone else a noob. Funniest. Thing. Ever!
You know what the real beauty of this whole thing is?..... I mean the real beauty? All that you have written is captured here for as long as this forum is in existence, it will even pop up on Google. You may bamboozle the inexperienced with half truths and half lies but there will be guys like me to inform the public to take advice like yours with caution.

Good for Google, and guess what, industry professionals can peruse the thread, and they'll know I'm right, because THEY ACTUALLY SERVICE vehicles totally and completely, you know, so people don't destroy their vehicles from improper and incomplete service.


I wouldn't come on here and tout on how great your services have been or how many 'hundreds' you've done given what you've posted. What training have your techs received to 'carefully qualify' customer vehicles? Because aside for an obvious slipping transmission your answer across the board seems to be"power flush". Don't make it seem like you guys are splitting atoms over there.

My technicians are all ASE-certified for transmission service (most have complete ASE certifications). But you know what, I really don't have to justify that either.


I'm starting to doubt your english reading and comprehension skills. No one in this thread condemned a tranny based fluid color. Second time you mention getting sued, I would be more concerned about keeping up to date with automotive procedures than what you may see on the 6:00 news if I were you. Apparently, there have been vehicles come by your shop and not have transmission services performed because you mistakenly assumed NO DIP STICK = SEALED TRANSMISSION = AUTOMATICALLY NO SERVICE NEEDED. EVER. Also, who "reads" the 6:00 news.....

Um...I TOLD YOU that vehicles that have sealed transmissions still require servicing, not the other way around.


No one questioned how big a role fluid color would play. As throughout this thread, you've been making assumptions, wrong at that.

Apparently it is calling someone out. Let's see some quotes...........

If I tried to "one-up" you then it's safe to assume you called that other tech an idiot. I'm merely adhering to the standards set by YOU in this thread.

If you like improperly qualifying your customers, so be it. Maybe you should wonder why you have to keep digging back into transmissions after you performed a regular (and improper) drain and fill. But, I digress, you are consumed with greed, and you'd rather rip people off than service their vehicles properly. Go away, get out of the service industry.

And you really shouldn't be assuming I meant things I never said. I never said the other technician was a 'idiot', you implied that, I didn't. Keep treading down this road if you want, you will be turning off of it shortly either by your choice, or mine.

[Galant9GSE]

Let me see, so I'm am the one who is being careless because I present the complete options for the customers, with COMPLETE AND PROPER methods of service, and let them decide from there. Doing that, you believe that *I* am forcing them into a decision or else, well that is your own unfounded belief, and that is completely disingenuous. I have a huge customer base, and many that are quite satisfied.

Lol, nice attempt to put a spin on things. Can't take the salesman outta ya I guess;)
"Decide from there"..........stoooopppp. You've been exposed already by your own statements to now try and pretend that you offer an array of options. Silly.



Well, now you are actually getting closer to properly servicing your customers vehicles, good for you! One day, you may actually provide total and complete satisfaction to your customers.

Thanks for confirming my previous statements on how you 'do' things. It really is a shame.



Good for Google, and guess what, industry professionals can peruse the thread, and they'll know I'm right, because THEY ACTUALLY SERVICE vehicles totally and completely, you know, so people don't destroy their vehicles from improper and incomplete service.

If that's what you need to tell yourself so you can sleep at night after extracting all you can from people's wallets.......



My technicians are all ASE-certified for transmission service (most have complete ASE certifications). But you know what, I really don't have to justify that either.

Is that where my jaw drops? I'm also ASE certified. Anyone can attain an ASE certification, unfortunately (rolls eyes...)
It's not rocket science yet you keep trying to sell that point of view.



Um...I TOLD YOU that vehicles that have sealed transmissions still require servicing, not the other way around.*


Really!? Was it here.....



I'll also tell you this ANY VEHICLE THAT HAS NO TRANSMISSION DIPSTICK is a 'fill for life' transmission


Or here!?!?.......



Yes, actually they are. Maybe you should check the service recommendations for those vehicles you listed. I know for a FACT that the Ford Explorer (per Ford) is considered a 'fill for life' transmission.


Last I checked the English language, "For life" means just that........FOR LIFE!!! Not 100K, 150K, 200K miles. I was the one that told you the opposite and you took things all personal. Here, let me quote myself.....



Err!! Pervious gen Ford Explorers, Volkswagen Jetta/Passat, as well as other older and current vehicles have "sealed transmissions" that are 100% serviceable. You may need dealer/special tools to properly fill/service them but they are not considered "for life" fluids. I'm surprised you'd make a ridiculous statement like that given how long you've been active. No dip stick does not always = for life fluid.


Dang your ego is worse than I thought. You made yourself look the fool. Again. All my posts stand unedited for the world to read.



If you like improperly qualifying your customers, so be it. Maybe you should wonder why you have to keep digging back into transmissions after you performed a regular (and improper) drain and fill. But, I digress, you are consumed with greed, and you'd rather rip people off than service their vehicles properly. Go away, get out of the service industry.

Again, you've been exposed so don't try and spin things to try fix your image now.



And you really shouldn't be assuming I meant things I never said.

Heed your own "advice"....



Keep treading down this road if you want, you will be turning off of it shortly either by your choice, or mine.


Of course, the obligatory impending threat has emerged. As administrator you can choose to ban people who don't share your views. This benefits you greatly as you can have the last word and not have your flawed views pointed out.

You need to apologize for spreading inaccurate information to those out there reading your statements and taking them as 100% facts. Your human and make mistakes but your ego has gotten the best of you.

[sthrnbumpn]

Well, still waiting to hear back from the trans. shop. I called him this morning and he has been out of the shop due to a family event(new grandchild). He is supposed to call me today with some estimates of a rebuild, or a flush. I have talked it over with my husband and have decided to have the rebuild right now, if needed. I don't want to take any chances while on the road, and at least with the rebuild I will have a warranty to travel with me if things turn south on me during the trip. I plan on keeping this car for as long as possible, so I think it is the only way to go. Hopefully he can get to it in time.

I have heard a couple more good reviews of this guy's work since I spoke to him last, which makes me feel even better. Fingers crossed that the work is done right and that I get my car in and out of the shop before June 6th.

sum shops give a 90 day an real honest ones offer a 1 year warrenty, at least thats the way it seems around here

[RedGalant2k1]

Lol, nice attempt to put a spin on things. Can't take the salesman outta ya I guess;)
"Decide from there"..........stoooopppp. You've been exposed already by your own statements to now try and pretend that you offer an array of options. Silly.

Thanks for confirming my previous statements on how you 'do' things. It really is a shame.

If that's what you need to tell yourself so you can sleep at night after extracting all you can from people's wallets.......

Is that where my jaw drops? I'm also ASE certified. Anyone can attain an ASE certification, unfortunately (rolls eyes...)
It's not rocket science yet you keep trying to sell that point of view.

Really!? Was it here.....

Or here!?!?.......

Last I checked the English language, "For life" means just that........FOR LIFE!!! Not 100K, 150K, 200K miles. I was the one that told you the opposite and you took things all personal. Here, let me quote myself.....

Dang your ego is worse than I thought. You made yourself look the fool. Again. All my posts stand unedited for the world to read.

Again, you've been exposed so don't try and spin things to try fix your image now.

Heed your own "advice"....

Of course, the obligatory impending threat has emerged. As administrator you can choose to ban people who don't share your views. This benefits you greatly as you can have the last word and not have your flawed views pointed out.

You need to apologize for spreading inaccurate information to those out there reading your statements and taking them as 100% facts. Your human and make mistakes but your ego has gotten the best of you.

I'll just say that once and for all, you are entirely too egotistical, and I won't bother to correct you anymore. Give the incorrect advice all you want, think I'm wrong or crazy all you want. Just remember, I offer a complete and total honest service for my clients, and I have yet to completely overhaul any transmission that we have flushed, unlike you. And unlike you, we don't like to be selfish and improperly qualify our customers. You should realize that you are being FAR MORE DAMAGING to their vehicles by doing half-assed service.

But, I guess you like that, so, go ahead, keep on doing it. I'll laugh when you are out of business because you screwed your customers too much, too often. I should flat out ban you because of your blatant stupidity, but alas, I'm only willing to ban people that screw with my dollars, or dollars of TGC Members (except egotistical newbies like you). I don't need to 'spin' anything, to fix anything here, nor would I even care to placate children like you.

So, I'd much rather you find your own way out, but if you continue to press on, you will force my hand. Hell, as far as servicing customers, I bet you are ready and willing to machine brake rotors well under machine to measurements, and you no doubt leave old intake gaskets on cars, and old thermostats on when servicing vehicles for coolant repairs. Hell, you probably put the old fluids back in the car just after you installed 'new' parts on a customers car.

*I* should feel ashamed? No, you really should because whoever you got trained by completely duped you. Oh well...I can help correct ignorance, but with you, it isn't possible to correct stupid. Have a nice day, and don't come back.

[apabbott]

Got car back yesterday afternoon. Local shop had it for about a week. Mechanic told me over the phone that the all is well, however, he stated that I might notice a little jerky shift when hitting 3rd gear. He said that somewhere between 50-100 miles the computer will reset itself, and this should smooth out the shifting. Drove it yesterday about 70-80 miles. I did immediately notice the hard shift at 3rd when accelerating. After driving for about 30 minutes, I also noticed a hard shift when slowing down at a red light. Not sure what gear. Very similar to what car was doing before. This happened twice. What do you guys think? Is the ecu reset a legitimate claim?

[RedGalant2k1]

Got car back yesterday afternoon. Local shop had it for about a week. Mechanic told me over the phone that the all is well, however, he stated that I might notice a little jerky shift when hitting 3rd gear. He said that somewhere between 50-100 miles the computer will reset itself, and this should smooth out the shifting. Drove it yesterday about 70-80 miles. I did immediately notice the hard shift at 3rd when accelerating. After driving for about 30 minutes, I also noticed a hard shift when slowing down at a red light. Not sure what gear. Very similar to what car was doing before. This happened twice. What do you guys think? Is the ecu reset a legitimate claim?


The transmission computer will need to reset, so it is a legitimate claim. Though I would expect mildly rough shifts at each gear change. Our transmissions are designed to be be 'learning' transmissions for lack of a better term. They essentially learn how you drive and adjust shift points accordingly. I was always under the impression that this took up to a week, which is usually 100-200 miles or so. So a few days time should be good enough to get through any learning process.

If any issues persist, then go back to your mechanic for further inspection.

[DTP]

The transmission computer will need to reset, so it is a legitimate claim. Though I would expect mildly rough shifts at each gear change. Our transmissions are designed to be be 'learning' transmissions for lack of a better term. They essentially learn how you drive and adjust shift points accordingly. I was always under the impression that this took up to a week, which is usually 100-200 miles or so. So a few days time should be good enough to get through any learning process.

If any issues persist, then go back to your mechanic for further inspection.

Would it be safe to say if it is only doing it in the ONE gear instead of all 4 that it might have not been fixed properly, or is it just her computer/tranny acting like that? If it were me, i'd reset the ECU and see how it acts.

[apabbott]

Not only is it only 1 gear, it is only occasionally doing it. I'll give it a few more days. Mechanic told me to give it about a week, and if it doesn't improve bring it back. I've already put b/w 200-300 miles on it, and if anything it seems to happen more often.

[qnz]

my noob understanding of the tranny is that it either shifts or doesnt shift. It doesnt shift quicker, softer, harder because of how it learns. Its just flips an internal switch and shifts.

What you may be experiencing are firmer shifts because the end clutches and clutch pack are new. So when its time to switch gears, boom, the internal clutches grab instantly and shifts, hence the hard shifts.

[apabbott]

The car isn't just shifting harder. On occasion, after driving for several minutes, the car jerks hard into third gear upon accelerating. What worries me is the it just started jerking hard into low gear when slowing down. It is basically doing what it did before the rebuild. I don't really know if this is a trans. computer problem, but it seems to me if it was it wouldn't be only certain gears at sporadic times. Any ideas?

[apabbott]

Well, I have driven the car for several days now, and thankfully the car has completely smoothed out. No hard shifts, no jerking. The car drives better than it ever has. Thanks for your help.

[foxbrand]

^good to see that they could help you out
I just have just a few things to say here, some are sort of relavent with the problems you had, and others to the posts, but this is just some basic stuff I have picked up and noticed over the years, just my 2 cents, you guys can ignore this if you like

yes, manufactor specific trans fluid is a great idea as it will extend the life of your transmission, it is indeed very expensive, if you don't have money for the specified fluid, high milage ATF from a name brand will still work. I am running that right now, I have even raced on it, my transmission is OK and shifts fine (clunky, yes, but it always has been), but as I will likely be switching transmissions in the next year, I don't really have to worry about the life of it, but in your case, if you don't have the money to buy the Mitsu trans fluid and have to get it changed, run the generic stuff until you can buy the Mitsu fluid.

over time with any transmission, between the shift between two gears will be jerkier and rougher than with any other shift, in my car it is the 1-2 shift, this is usually because this shift is the most frequently done on a regular basis, this issue isn't really something to be worried about, however, if it does get worse, then look into it

[n3oAcid24]

what happen to just helping the person with their problem?

[RedGalant2k1]

Well, I have driven the car for several days now, and thankfully the car has completely smoothed out. No hard shifts, no jerking. The car drives better than it ever has. Thanks for your help.

Glad to hear. So, did you get it rebuilt or just flushed?

[apabbott]

complete rebuild. I didn't want to take a chance, and neither did the mechanic. Cost me $1575, including tax. Problem solved, and i feel much better driving to work now. Car actually drives better than when I bought it, and seems to have more power.

[RedGalant2k1]

Not bad for a complete rebuild!

[foxbrand]

wow, that is a good deal for a rebuild

[oakrdrs187]

Cool deal, make sure they used a fluid approved for that transmission. Some aftermarket ones don't have the necessary detergents in them to keep the tranny shifting and operating smoothly. Also keep a close eye on how soon you flush it, don't believe figures people throw out there, take into consideration your driving habits, weather in your area and Remember how the car feels now that is how it should be anything else is just a red flag for you.




So, I'd much rather you find your own way out, but if you continue to press on, you will force my hand. Hell, as far as servicing customers, I bet you are ready and willing to machine brake rotors well under machine to measurements, and you no doubt leave old intake gaskets on cars, and old thermostats on when servicing vehicles for coolant repairs. Hell, you probably put the old fluids back in the car just after you installed 'new' parts on a customers car.


This had me ROFLMFAO!!


I Believe this thread turned out to be helpful to a bunch of us, I know I learned alot from all of Dave's "redgalant2k1" facts and pointers.