No Failure lights, runs & drives great - Horn stopped working

[FooseGalant]

Getting down to the last issue.

After total dash and running gear rebuild, I am chasing an electrical gremlin.

Symptoms:
Would not start
Key bell rings
Horn works (more on that to come)
Dash door agar light on
No engine turn over or system ready lights

Items Checked
All harness connections
Battery cables and fuses inside and out
Battery voltage checked
Checked fusible links

Came back today to continue diag
Engine starts
Anti-Lock light is on
Horn now does not work
Drove car around for 30 minutes and then down to the auto parts store to pull codes
In route the anti-lock light goes out
0 codes at test.
Horn still does not work.

WTF
I am being Mitsubishi'ed to tears.

Any random thoughts from our resident experts? It is hard for me to get mad at the car as it is driving great now.

Thanks for your input.

Update - Put the front on some ramps. Engine running and I noticed when I close the drivers door my battery dash light flickers on momentarily. Would that indicate a short in the driver's door?

FooseGalant

[RedGalant2k1]

I don't believe on 8th Gen Galants that they set a ABS code in the vehicle computer. I'm not sure if you have already inspected it, but have you had the alternator tested? It is not uncommon for interesting 'electrical gremlins' to happen when a alternator is not putting out proper or consistent voltage for the vehicle to use. You should also ensure all connections for alternator, battery, and starter are clean and free from corrosion or damage. There are switches that engage when the door is closed, it is certainly possible as a candidate for potential electrical problems.

Do you know if the vehicle has ever had any sort of alarm, remote start, or stereo system? (maybe you have some or all of those installed now?) If so, you should inspect anything that was installed to see if the wires are damaged, loose, bad grounds etc...

All in all, I'd lean towards a bad ground somewhere. Especially considering you say the issues are intermittent.

[oakrdrs187]

^^^As always, very well put sir.


I had an intermittent AntiLock light. That us something a special scanner can pickup on, not all obd code pullers will do it. May have a bad ABS sensor, or the module itself. However this would be unrelated to the no start, no horn issue.
As Dave mentioned, a bad or even weak alternator will/can cause these things or a bad ground connection.


I gate that this car has been giving you so much trouble, putting bad thoughts about 8G's in your head, I have to say I have never...ever... had a Galant with this many headaches as you have been experiencing.

[FooseGalant]

The alternator was tested at the beginning of the process. I will have to get that done again. The first alternator replacement had an internal short and was replaced. All the connections have been checked in the engine compartment and the battery terminals and cables ends are tight and free of corrosion.

I have owned the car since new and there have been no add-ons. I am pulling the dash and steering column covers to check the wires through the steering for anything that may have gotten pinched in the reassembly process given the fact that it was gutted from the car for rebuild.

Thanks for the assistance. I'll report findings later today.


I don't believe on 8th Gen Galants that they set a ABS code in the vehicle computer. I'm not sure if you have already inspected it, but have you had the alternator tested? It is not uncommon for interesting 'electrical gremlins' to happen when a alternator is not putting out proper or consistent voltage for the vehicle to use. You should also ensure all connections for alternator, battery, and started are clean and free from corrosion or damage. There are switches that engage when the door is closed, it is certainly possible as a candidate for potential electrical problems.

Do you know if the vehicle has ever had any sort of alarm, remote start, or stereo system? (maybe you have some or all of those installed now?) If so, you should inspect anything that was installed to see if the wires are damaged, loose, bad grounds etc...

All in all, I'd lean towards a bad ground somewhere. Especially considering you say the issues are intermittent.

[FooseGalant]

Car is up on the ramps and I will be checking the sensors, cables and torque settings on the brake and steering components today. It may appear bad, but I think that my standards are just very high and I do not tolerate poor engineering for cost saving concerns. It is just the way manufacturing is going these days. Industry makes changes for cost reduction and tries to call it product improvement. We don't make things better, just cheaper. I can't fault the drivability of the car or its looks. It is easier to flog the engineer. The line starts here....
Thanks for your thoughts and I appreciate the help.
Paul

[RedGalant2k1]

This might seem an interesting question...but has your vehicle's heater core ever leaked on the floorboards? Also, have you ever replaced axles or abs sensors before? And, is your A/C working and cold? The reason I ask about the A/C is if the compressor is faulty it can on rare occasions contribute to no start or hard start issues.

[FooseGalant]

Yes to your first question. That is the problem that launched me into this odyssey. Because the dash had started to crumble; the heater core drain was plugged the fluid leaked into the passenger floor. I caught it quick and had the dash open for inspection. Yes to your second question. New everything from the transmission seals out. No to the sensors. When the car starts the AC works great. Heater too. All of it was rebuilt when the dash was replaced. New duct seals, lubed cables and pulls. It has not exhibited a hard start issue to date. She either starts or she won't. This issue is about 8 days old.

Todays update.
Checked all the things last night. Started it one more time. All good, but still no horn. Now to today. Pulled the lower dash panel and the steering shrouds. Visually examined the wiring. Only issue was a broken loom tie wrap. Removed drivers side door panel to check for wire chaffing or short, none found.

Here is where it get interesting. Key in ignition, key chime sounds, 'door ajar' light lit on dash... car wont start. No wipers, radio, fan, or blinkers. The horn works now:( Headlights and interior dome light works. It's a real knee slapper.
Time to sit back, crack a cool one and put it in "Sam Adams" hands.

[coconut]

Im wondering If your pcm got wet and now its shorting out.
Did you have your steering wheel off and clock spring?

[FooseGalant]

Im wondering If your pcm got wet and now its shorting out.
Did you have your steering wheel off and clock spring?

I looked at it very closely when I gutted the interior. The fluid never got close to it luckily. The immobilizer may be a different story. It is on the tunnel and the fluid leaked to the passenger side of that unit. I'll check it again after I remove the center console cover.

The steering wheel and column came out from the steering rack as a unit. I never separated the two parts.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll check it over again.

[RedGalant2k1]

If you still have the second key try that if you haven't already. The immobilizer could certainly be a possibility.

[coconut]

^2nd that idea

[FooseGalant]

If you still have the second key try that if you haven't already. The immobilizer could certainly be a possibility.

Tried that option a couple of days ago with the grey key and no luck. I will probably try a new battery to rule out a bad cell next. Thanks.

[RedGalant2k1]

A quality battery tester should reveal if the battery has a bad cell.

[FooseGalant]

A quality battery tester should reveal if the battery has a bad cell.

Removed the center console and have checked all the connections to the PCM, immobilizer, Ignition and fuse box. No luck. It started today. Horn works, lights, fan and wipers all good. Drives just great. Antilock dash light is back on. Drove it around the block and shut it off. Won't start again. I'll pull the battery and head off to the auto parts store next.

Thanks for all the great suggestions.

[RedGalant2k1]

Did you just physically inspect the connections? Or did you both physically and electrically test them? Also, its possible there could be multiple issues. I was thinking about the ABS...you should inspect the ABS rings on the axles, they could be damaged and cause an intermittent ABS light.

[FooseGalant]

So here is the update.
Day One.
I took apart all the connections at the left side of the dash near the driver's door hinge. Inspected them all and reseated them. Problem solved. Dash lights come on and off in the correct sequence and the car starts and drives fine.

Day Two.
Reassemble in progress. Put back all the dash parts on the passenger side and tested the starting pattern again. All checks out fine. The horn works too:)

Day Three.
Driver's side door panel reinstalled. Gauge bezel and steering column covers installed. Time to retest the starting....all works accept the horn. There seems to be an intermittent issue with the horn wiring in the column. I am close but nothing appears to be wrong with the wiring or the routing. Pulling hair out now.

[FooseGalant]

Checked the rings on both front hubs and examined the sensors. They are in great shape, clean and torqued to spec. That problem seems to have gone away. Thanks for the input.

[FooseGalant]

I am checking the circuits from the horn switch to the C66 connector. Can anybody tell me how that connector comes apart. Thanks.

[FooseGalant]

Problem appears to be fixed. The connection issue seemed to be in the C66 connector. Never got it totally apart. Cycling it open and closed seems to have solver the connection problem.
Thanks for all the input. It was much appreciated. New cat back and 3M body skin are the next project.

[coconut]

Im glad you found and fixed the issue.

[oakrdrs187]

C66?

[FooseGalant]

C66?

It is 1 of 2 connectors under the driver's side dash panel under the steering wheel. It is behind and slightly above the interior fuse box. C66 & C67 have a clamping latch mechanism that secures about 60 wires.

[RedGalant2k1]

Glad you sorted it out. Wiring issues can be an absolute nightmare.