SMOG and new Headers, ?'s for California

[Liszt]

Well,

I've been reading a lot because this is the first car I've had that required a smog check. I am wondering. My cali spec car is a low emission vehicle.

I am guessing that when I install my new headers, downpipe and high flow cat it won't be low emission anymore but still in the acceptable range.

Do you think this is right?

Do they compare your car with the acceptable average and as long as you are in the accepted range you're ok, or do they look at the specific expected results for your EXACT vehicle? If they did the exact vehicle check I'd be different than the expected normal. Do you know which one of these it is? Average over all vehicles or for my model/type? I'm just nervous about failing.

Last ?

During the visual part of the smog check do my headers and cat need to be C.A.R.B. stamped or have the EO (executive order) thing on there that allows their use in california? Would having a shiny chrome exhaust system tip them off and cause me to fail?

Again, logically I think that if I'm still in the accepted range I'm ok.

I'm getting my stuff installed after my smog check naturally but I'm looking 2 years down the road.

Thanks in advance,

L

[Fishboy55]

First off, you cannot use headers and a downpipe together. It's either one or the other. Secondly, adding headers will force you to remove your precat(s) from a Cali spec car. If your high flow cat does its job, you should still be within the acceptable emissions range. I can't speak for California, but I know from reading that their emissions standards are pretty high. I got an emissions check two weeks after my headers were installed and passed with no problem here in MD. As far as the visual inspection, which they don't have here, it's my understanding in CA that any aftermarket parts need to be CARB approved and have a visible exemption in order to pass. I can't recall seeing any headers that carry a CARB exemption, but several intakes (AEM, CPRacing, Injen) do.

[Liszt]

First off, you cannot use headers and a downpipe together. It's either one or the other. Secondly, adding headers will force you to remove your precat(s) from a Cali spec car. If your high flow cat does its job, you should still be within the acceptable emissions range. I can't speak for California, but I know from reading that their emissions standards are pretty high. I got an emissions check two weeks after my headers were installed and passed with no problem here in MD. As far as the visual inspection, which they don't have here, it's my understanding in CA that any aftermarket parts need to be CARB approved and have a visible exemption in order to pass. I can't recall seeing any headers that carry a CARB exemption, but several intakes (AEM, CPRacing, Injen) do.

Thanks for the info. The DMV maintains a sight on all the eo's that allow aftermarket stuff.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devi...ces/amquery.php ('http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery.php')

I kinda freaked out when I saw this on an install sight

http://www.group5motorsport.com/images/techtips06-01c.jpg

Do any of you cali guys know if I'll fail the visual b/c of this ?

Thanks,

L

[Reelax]

CA is the strictest state in the union when it comes to smog.... CARB EO stands for california air and resource board exemption order. 50 states legal means that the parts pass california standards. i can gaurantee you that you will not pass the sniffer w/ headers since they delete the pre cats unless you run the car hot right b4 it is tested (the precats are there to start the carbon breakdown b4 the main cat heats up). i have not heard of any visiual inspection in california for the headers but as long as you have a main cat you will pass an under car visual. typically they do not force a smog test untill 4 years after the car is purchased new so you could swap back right b4 testing.

[Auto-9]

Damn you guys are lucky...us Harris County folks in Texas are hit with a double whammy...cars 2 years and older must now be subject to Cali standards emissions testing. I've already said once before though that I passed the safety inspection but put my car through emissions just for kicks since it wasn't mandatory last year and I barely failed. You just might luck out.

[Liszt]

CA is the strictest state in the union when it comes to smog.... CARB EO stands for california air and resource board exemption order. 50 states legal means that the parts pass california standards. i can gaurantee you that you will not pass the sniffer w/ headers since they delete the pre cats unless you run the car hot right b4 it is tested (the precats are there to start the carbon breakdown b4 the main cat heats up). i have not heard of any visiual inspection in california for the headers but as long as you have a main cat you will pass an under car visual. typically they do not force a smog test untill 4 years after the car is purchased new so you could swap back right b4 testing.

There are three parts to the inspection, sniffer, visual, and then ignition timing, egr, etc.

I'm confused. You say I'll def. fail the sniffer, that makes me think that you are saying that compared to the expected average for my specific vehicle I'll be different and that will cause me to fail.

Fishboy said


If your high flow cat does its job, you should still be within the acceptable emissions range.

So which is it, vehicle specific or the "acceptable emission range"?

What I was trying to get at before is wether I'll fail the visual based upon not having that eo thing stamped upon my headers. If they see a bright shiny chrome exaust system will they be like "no soup for you" b/c you don't have that stamping eo thing? Will that cause me to fail the visual?

I still figure that if I pass the emission part I'll be ok. Is this right????

Does anyone understand what I am trying to say?

L

[tim888tim]

CA emissions are vehicle specific. If you are not running within the range specified by Mitsubishi, you will fail; even if you are running cleaner. I was lucky enough to buy my car in Utah so I got fed spec headers and exhaust. When I got smogged here, it took the guy a few minutes to realize that he had to use a different set of numbers for my car to pass.

[Liszt]

CA emissions are vehicle specific. If you are not running within the range specified by Mitsubishi, you will fail; even if you are running cleaner. I was lucky enough to buy my car in Utah so I got fed spec headers and exhaust. When I got smogged here, it took the guy a few minutes to realize that he had to use a different set of numbers for my car to pass.

Thanks for the info. That sux that even if you run cleaner you are sol. Think the gov is whack on that note. Cleaner = better in my opinion. Well, guess two years down the road I'll be doing some uninstall/re-install work. Sigh .....

L

[Liszt]

Has anyone in California ever passed the smog test with aftermarket work????

L

[Liszt]

Well,

If anyone cares I've come to the conclusion that 2 year is a long time and I might as well enjoy myslef. When the future smogs come up I'll deal with them then.

Here are some links for anyone who searches this topic in the future

CA SMOG INFO

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp?Body=/...eck/default.htm ('http://smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp?Body=/Smogcheck/default.htm')

Good smog info

http://www.smogtips.com/index.html ('http://www.smogtips.com/index.html')

L

[Liszt]

ok, I decided to reopen this post for a few q's? I've had my amss headers for about 2 years now and they are cool. Smogging this 07/01/2005. I have a ? about the headers and downpipe/cat.

There is a section on the smog check visual/functional test that says

1) Cat converter - pass (on demo report)
2) other emission related equipment pass (on demo report below)

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/failvir.cap.pdf ('http://smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/failvir.cap.pdf')

Do the guys at the smog shop KNOW our cars have 3 cats? Is there some universal computer system spec sheet they check our stuff to tell them there is 3 cats?

Basically what I'm getting at is if the visual is all ok and the car is below max levels we should be able to pass. My car still has a main cat, a carsound cat. So I'm guessing if the smog man sees that there is a main cat I'm ok, but what happens when he gets to the other emiss. equip area? Would this be a fail if the precats are removed? How the hell does he know any different if there is one or three cats? Does he have an encyclopedia of car knowledge?

Will I pass under the max ppm and stuff if the pre cats are removed? What do you guys think? I'm probably going to get the car smogged soon just to see if I can pass later in two months. If I can't I'll just scrap the car to an auto yard, save up, and buy a new car. Fucking CARB!!!!! shit.

[peanotation]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liszt)</div><div class='quotemain'> If I can't I'll just scrap the car to an auto yard, save up, and buy a new car. </div>

wow, thats a pretty lazy solution to the problem https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

[Liszt]

well, I've found some info

The CBar or California Bureau of Automotive REpair has a thing called

Consumer Assistance Program Application for Repair Assistance or Vehicle Retirement

where an exhaust tampering would limit you only to vehicle retirement

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfforms/cap_app.pdf ('http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfforms/cap_app.pdf')

the 500 credit is based on income and no exhaust tampering

section 6 of the 1000 buck reimbursement scrap thing has a section for exhaust system present. I don't know if this means has "a" exhaust system present or the "oem" system. Whatever.

I figure I own the car outright and I would rather have the thing just run legally than mess with removal of non carb parts, replacement, yada yada yada... I wish I would have bought a manual two seater with a supply of aftermarket carb approved parts. I know now. So, if anyone wants, assuming my car won't smog in 2 months, there'll be a AMSS header system for sale on the board. The nice thing about my system is that the main only carsound cat is custom, the amss stock o2 bungs point downward and I had the cat redone to point the o2 sensors up towards the chasis, so the system woud be the two headers, downpipe, egr plate, and the carsound cat.

This will be for sale assuming I can't get the car to smog and gotta drop dough to get the stock exhaust castings, the 3 stock cats and get it installed. If this stock setup (I didn't keep the original parts because when I just moved I could only take what would fit in my trunk) reinstallment and part purchase is over a grand forget it, I'll part this shit out or give to the gov for a g. Realistically I would be in the hole prob. about 1 grand to buy all the original exhaust parts new, have the old system ripped out, and the oem stuff reinstalled, setup, gasketed, the works, then I would smog pass I'm guessin, or I could just sell the car "won't smog" in an add, give it to the gov for a g, or give it to a wrecking yard for whatever they would give me. Then I could save up about 5-6 grand a buy a new car or a used one. I don't know what to do. I'm gonna go to mitsu tomorrow and see how much it'll cost to buy all the stock exhaust parts that would need replacement. I'll let you know what they quote me for removal, install, and such. I could find a smog dude to pass the shit but I don't know about Fresno, new home town, in regards to that kind of thing. I figure the asm-97 testing machine or whatever will fail me on the sniffer from what reelax said so there's really no way I assume that I would pass, but I'm not gonna shoot myself in the foot or knock myself down before the wave actually comes to me, just know how much it would cost to keep my car based on a smog fail. I'm turning 25 this august so I guess a new car insurance wize would be a little cheaper, but the popo up here hit me twice on the same road like within 500 feet of the first ticket. The roads up here in fresno are like, 35 here, 50 for 400 feet, then 40. none of the grid roads are consistent in their speed limit so I got nailed like only a day after I moved up here. the other tik was for not stopping at a stop sign completely, rolling stop. So if I wanted to go for a new car I would have to deal with about 1500/yr for ins, 350-400 mo for a car or lower if my cr is better and downpayment is ok. THat would be about 575/mo for a new celica which I was looking at, or used. Not that far yet. But 575 is totally rediculous and I would never pay that. The current low rate is 4.5 and high is 12.3 lets say.

there's a good calc here

http://www.autosite.com/content/buy/financ...tion/calculator ('http://www.autosite.com/content/buy/finance/index.cfm/action/calculator')

tax here is 7.875 so 18000 financed with 5000 down w/ a 4.5 rate for 60 months is 269 a month, 48 months is 329,

12.3 % would be 323/mo for 60, 382 for 48 months

8.4 % is the median between 12.3 and 4.5 so 60 is 296, 48 355.

THe mean payment for 60 is 296, and 48 is 355.33, and my ins would be at least for a new car I'm guessing 2000 a year so 166.67 a mo would put me a 462.67 60 and 522 for a 4 year agreement. man ..........

[Reelax]

dude it's not that hard to pass if u go to the right place and bring the right amount of money. i passed and i don't have any cats.

[BGR]

See that's just it. I hear about these "places" to go but no one really gives a address to go. I'm sure there are dozens if not hundreds of these places here in Cali to go to but if no one gives info as to where to go, then it all just mythos.

Just an FYI but I bought my Galant brand new in November, 1999 and I still have not received a notification to smog. I could have had the headers and other work done and been kicking it all this time but I'm not really into headers, downpipes, etc.

My other car, I was told that because the VIN starts with a Zero, the DMV's system gets screwed up. I receive a "Needs smog certification" every year. I have to bring my smog check paper work/receipt from the previous year with me every year I register and they exempt me for the year that I shouldn't have received a notice. I hate it but at least I don't have to smog every year.

[Reelax]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BGR)</div><div class='quotemain'>See that's just it. Â*I hear about these "places" to go but no one really gives a address to go. Â*I'm sure there are dozens if not hundreds of these places here in Cali to go to but if no one gives info as to where to go, then it all just mythos.</div>

well my registration is proof that they exist. the thing is the shop can get into HUGE trouble so it's by word of mouth only. my cuz knows of one in sac btw, if u need it, but i will never post specifics like shop names on the net.

[BGR]

No kidding but even when I asked a few people face to face I get a different story (not say you Rani, but I asked this one guy from Riverside and he said they're all over the place. I said where? He said I have to "look around". I was like BS) There is one exception but I have't went there... yet. My best friend has a truck that wouldn't pass smog at other places and then he brought it to, I'll drop a name, Smog USA, which is right around the corner from both of our parent's houses and he said the guy passed him. But he wasn't sure if I'd pass with the headers on my Sentra though. He thinks I should be okay as long as I put my stock airbox back together and get the O2 sensor fixed (the check engine light is on because the O2 sensor wire got melted on the header). I did my last registration/smog for the Sentra in '98, before I got the headers. It's been sitting since 2000.

As long as the 'check engine' light is on. You won't pass smog (visual) either.

[Reelax]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BGR)</div><div class='quotemain'>No kidding but even when I asked a few people face to face I get a different story (not say you Rani, but I asked this one guy from Riverside and he said they're all over the place. Â*I said where? Â*He said I have to "look around". Â*I was like BS) Â*There is one exception but I have't went there... yet. Â*My best friend has a truck that wouldn't pass smog at other places and then he brought it to, I'll drop a name, Smog USA, which is right around the corner from both of our parent's houses and he said the guy passed him. Â*But he wasn't sure if I'd pass with the headers on my Sentra though. Â*He thinks I should be okay as long as I put my stock airbox back together and get the O2 sensor fixed (the check engine light is on because the O2 sensor wire got melted on the header). Â*I did my last registration/smog for the Sentra in '98, before I got the headers. Â*It's been sitting since 2000.

As long as the 'check engine' light is on. Â*You won't pass smog (visual) either.</div>

o did i foreget mention it costs $200-$300 to pass at these shops? expensive, but it beats the $500-$1000 to go back to stock though.

[BGR]

No. You told me before.

[Liszt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reelax)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BGR)</div><div class='quotemain'>No kidding but even when I asked a few people face to face I get a different story (not say you Rani, but I asked this one guy from Riverside and he said they're all over the place. Â*I said where? Â*He said I have to "look around". Â*I was like BS) Â*There is one exception but I have't went there... yet. Â*My best friend has a truck that wouldn't pass smog at other places and then he brought it to, I'll drop a name, Smog USA, which is right around the corner from both of our parent's houses and he said the guy passed him. Â*But he wasn't sure if I'd pass with the headers on my Sentra though. Â*He thinks I should be okay as long as I put my stock airbox back together and get the O2 sensor fixed (the check engine light is on because the O2 sensor wire got melted on the header). Â*I did my last registration/smog for the Sentra in '98, before I got the headers. Â*It's been sitting since 2000.

As long as the 'check engine' light is on. Â*You won't pass smog (visual) either.</div>

o did i foreget mention it costs $200-$300 to pass at these shops? expensive, but it beats the $500-$1000 to go back to stock though.</div>

well, I went to mitsu this morning and had the guy print me out the exploded parts diagrams for the calispec v6, I was quoted $3,047.70 for just the piping (not including all the hardware). So here's how it breaks down

MR481813 (exhaust manifold) 201.24
MR481814 (exhaust manifold) 213.83
MR281020 (exhaust pipeandmain cat) 928.50
MR340066 (pre cat 1) 701.27
MR340065 (pre cat 2) 708.01

so, the pre cats are 700 bucks a pop, and the main cat plus piping is 930 bucks. Man, for 3000 dollars I would not pay to have this shit re done. So this leavs me in an interesting situation. I can either pay some dude at the smog shop a little buddy buddy, but then again like the man before said, "where's the black mitsubishi" (rap line). How do I find a place? It's like finding the white whale and then having him take you down. 3047.70. That's not even including all the hardware and bolts.

See, I would rather have this shit be legal and not have to pissant around trying to find a dude who's willing to take a risk just to have you pass so you can get your kicks while the rest of us choke to death. It really doesn't make any sense to me to spend any more money on this car. The gov will give me a g for disposal. I'm gonna go to some wrecking yards today to see if I can find the pre cats on a junker and maybe see what they'll pay me for the g ride just to part it out for them. If you really think about it the carb and smog regulations are part of ca for the benefit of all of us. I would rather live legally then live illegally, it's just gonna cost me to get on a legal path. Man my credit is messed up, and I'll need comprehensive insurance for a new ride. Maybe I can pay cash for an old MR2. Let me see. I'll hit you back later.

Doug

[BGR]

It may be cheaper at You Pull It or Pick and Pull. I wouldn't try recyclers, like M&S, they will rip you off and charge you close to brand new prices for their used products. I mean if it's only to pass smog, why buy brand new?

[Liszt]

well,

here's the deal.

I figure I'll get a old MR2 for like 2 grand, pay the dude his money, get the title in my name, register the thing, pay the sales tax and transfer fee and be done with it. I've always wanted an old mr2 so this'll prob. work out for the best assuming the thing doesn't break dead. I'm gonna get a carfax unlimited thing the check the vins and then also check the smog record. I'll probably take my g ride to pno status with the dmv, park that shit on the curb and part it out to the new ride.

Peace,

D

[BGR]

Let me know the vin # and I can run it for you and send you the results. My friend gave me access to his carfax.com account and it's unlimited until 05.28.05

[neel9]

when does the engine light come on? when u change headers or? .. is that the reason we do not pass the smog here in cali.

[pinoyesv6]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(neel9)</div><div class='quotemain'>when does the engine light come on? </div>

when the on board diagnostics system in the car senses something is wrong with the car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(neel9)</div><div class='quotemain'>when u change headers or? </div>

it can happen.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(neel9)</div><div class='quotemain'>is that the reason we do not pass the smog here in cali.</div>

there are many ways to fail smog in cali. from having the light, to removing emission control devices, to even installing non CARB approved parts on your car.

[Liszt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BGR)</div><div class='quotemain'>Let me know the vin # and I can run it for you and send you the results. Â*My friend gave me access to his carfax.com account and it's unlimited until 05.28.05</div>

thanks, I'll let you know.

My registration is good on the Galant until 09/08/2005 so I'll be looking for a car prob. around august, which is still 4 months away. Hopefully I'll have enough saved up then for something decent. And since the fed just rased the interest rates and it's expected that they will remain rising until some later time paying cash'll be good for me.

Thanks again,

Doug

[Liszt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BGR)</div><div class='quotemain'>Let me know the vin # and I can run it for you and send you the results. Â*My friend gave me access to his carfax.com account and it's unlimited until 05.28.05</div>

JT2AW15C8K0148839

see if you can check that for me, thx

d

[Liszt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liszt)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BGR)</div><div class='quotemain'>Let me know the vin # and I can run it for you and send you the results. Â*My friend gave me access to his carfax.com account and it's unlimited until 05.28.05</div>

JT2AW15C8K0148839

see if you can check that for me, thx

d</div>

I just ran this vin on

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/vehtests/pubtstqry.aspx ('http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/vehtests/pubtstqry.aspx')

and it shows all p's

[Liszt]

well, I've done some more research,

ca has a thing called the BAR, bureau of auto. repair.

I guess you can retire your vehicle if you have a "qualifying smog check failure" and you meet the requirements on section 6 of that thing. It seems the only wavy things are the qualifying smog check failure, what does that mean and would I qualify, and also the fact about the "exhaust system is present" does that mean oem or just a system?????????

Considering the line of work I'm going to be getting into, maybe accounting, business, it's really unethical of me to get the car smogged at a place that will just do it and look the other way. Really, if I did that I would be bypassing our democratic system and making a decision about air quality for all of us without letting your voice be heard. It's more responsible of me to want to get to carb approval on aftermarket parts for a car that acutally has carb aftermarket parts available in the aftermarket marketplace. So what I'm saying is that the 4000 or 3000 I need to fix this junk is too much to get to carb levels, so the dmv says that they send out registration renewals 60 days before the current one expires and I need that renewal to get into the retirement program. That puts me at July 10th for retirement proceedings to begin. So what am I gonna do in the mean time. Well, I'll get my mvr, scope out new insurance and a new ride, pay for ins, pay for car, pay transfer fee, pay use tax, and that's it.

D

[Reelax]

well, I've done some more research,

ca has a thing called the BAR, bureau of auto. repair.

I guess you can retire your vehicle if you have a "qualifying smog check failure" and you meet the requirements on section 6 of that thing. It seems the only wavy things are the qualifying smog check failure, what does that mean and would I qualify, and also the fact about the "exhaust system is present" does that mean oem or just a system?????????

Considering the line of work I'm going to be getting into, maybe accounting, business, it's really unethical of me to get the car smogged at a place that will just do it and look the other way. Really, if I did that I would be bypassing our democratic system and making a decision about air quality for all of us without letting your voice be heard. It's more responsible of me to want to get to carb approval on aftermarket parts for a car that acutally has carb aftermarket parts available in the aftermarket marketplace. So what I'm saying is that the 4000 or 3000 I need to fix this junk is too much to get to carb levels, so the dmv says that they send out registration renewals 60 days before the current one expires and I need that renewal to get into the retirement program. That puts me at July 10th for retirement proceedings to begin. So what am I gonna do in the mean time. Well, I'll get my mvr, scope out new insurance and a new ride, pay for ins, pay for car, pay transfer fee, pay use tax, and that's it.

D

do what you want, but that seems rather extreme.

btw, since you are just getting into business and accounting, you will soon learn that nothing is black and white; there is ALOT of grey out there. don't take this as an insult but you sound like you are going to be a good IRS auditor. i own my own business... and business, real business, is as far from black and white as day is from nite. good luck w/ your ethics and sense of responsibilty; you will make a good employee since it's rare that anyone sticks to their ideals when everyone else is successful.