Selling my turbo stuff, getting a cyclone

[fstrthnu]

Ok, after much thinking and debating...I've decided to sell my turbo kit for the galant and get a low milage jdm cyclone complete engine instead. I've already located one for a decent price and gave the guy a deposit, picking it up this weekend. So if everything looks good and the compression checks out it's mine.

The question I have is this: The guy told me a 1g eclipse or 2g harness will work fine. But what about the ecu? 1g or 2g? And will either harness plug into either ecu? Can I use my MAS?

I will be posting in the for sale section all of my turbo stuff. Basically it's everything you need to put a turbo on a galant except for boost gauge, egt gauge, air/fuel gauge, fmic, downpipe, s-afc and ic piping b/c that stuff is already on my car. I just wanted to give you guys first dibs before I put it on ebay or dsmtrader.

here's a list of parts:
16g turbo- no shaft play, ported
2g exhaust manifold- ported
2g O2 sensor housing - ported with dump tube mod
450cc blue top injectors
2g oil pan
resistor pack for injectors
2g smic
oil/water lines
extra turbo exhaust housing-unported
extra O2 sensor housing-unported
complete 4g64 engine with high miles :wink:

Not a complete list but will post everything in the for sale section tonight with prices. Thanks for your time. -John

[fstrthnu]

sorry for double posting...this cpu is gay. :x

[8ggalant]

that shyt is gonna be sick bro......keep the turbo n put it on the cyclone cuz sumtymes they come with 14b's instead of 16g's...if not...i want it.... :twisted:...hit me up bro

[J apmetal]

How much for the 4G64 ?

[sabzi5858]

sorry, i posted this in the wrong post i guess. "if you want things to go smoother, use the 2g stuff, craig did and told me he had practically no problems. i, on the other hand used the 1g ecu and harness and have had to redo a whole lot of the wiring, so, your call." this is referring to the ecu and engine wiring harness.

also, one benefit i've noticed with the 1g ecu, is when datalogging, i can view knock which is great for tuning, but on the other hand, i still don't have my speedometer working, although that could be due to laziness. if you do use the 1g wiring harness, you'll also have to use parts of the 2g wiring harness, or make your own additions. if you decide to go this route, let me know and i'll give you any help i can. my aim is sabzi5858

[fstrthnu]

Thanks for the help. So what your pretty much telling me is that the 1g wiring harness is a pain to put in and not really worth the effort? So the 2g harness and ecu fit perfectly? The engine is a 1g 6 bolt jdm 4g63. If that helps any.

[sabzi5858]

yeah, the 1g harness is a pain to put in, but as to wether it's worth it or not, that depends on you. i personally like being able to tune by knock, and it's probably the best way to tune outside of a dyno. measuring a/f ratio and egt's is just to estimate knock. i'd rather measure it directly. you can use either wiring harness/ecu, just match your wiring harness to your ecu. since you're using a 1g engine, if you use a 2g ecu, you might have to use the magnus method, but i'm not 100% sure on that, so ask craig or someone else who's done it. you can read up on the magnus method on http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/ ('http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/') click on tech articles, and then 1G in a 2G.

if you use the 1g ecu and you want to mount in the stock location, you'll have to open it up and move the internals to the stock ecu case. (about 8 screws, easy, just beware of static) i don't know about the 2g. also, with a 1g ecu, you'll need a 1g ecu relay, again i don't know about the 2g ecu. you'll have to route a 12v power into the relay, and it will take care of the output. you'll also need to get power to some of the old circuits that used the old ecu relay, such as headlights/wipers. your stock fuel gauge will work, although nothing else on the dash will without some sort of modification. i still have to see if i can get the speedo working, and i'm 90% sure that you won't be able to get the tach working using conventional methods. i use my s-afc for tach, which is nice because it has peak hold also. i had to wire in my fuel pump to the relay also, and the ignition power if i remember correctly. i highly suggest getting the dsm manual (or cd) regardless of which ecu you decide to use, it has a lot of info you can use. oh yeah, since you're using a 1g jdm, which i'll assume to be from a gvr-4 for now, you'll have to remove the motor mount in the front of the engine, and install yours on the side, which may also need to be trimmed down to fit, mines did. also, i couldn't fit the timing cover on after this, nor the 2g timing cover i bought to try to get it covered, so only the lower half of my timing belt is covered now. if you find a solution to this, please tell me. that's all i can think of for now, if you have any more questions, ask away.

[fstrthnu]

Wow...thanks for all the info, very very helpful. https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif . I didn't think you had to change the front motor mount, I thought you only had to do that on early evo motors. Oh well, I'm sure it's not that difficult... :? . Where are you located? Maybe you can make a road trip or something and share your knowledge since you've been in my shoes already! If Craig is reading this could you clear up if the 2g harness and ecu will go in a little more easy and if the speedo works on his... https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif . I don't mind having to cut and paste a couple of things and I do like the idea of being able to see the knock. What prevents you from doing this on a 2g? Thanks again for a your help.

[sabzi5858]

sorry, when i said front motor mount, i meant the one that connects to the drivier's side of the engine bay. on my engine, it was connected to the front of the engine, and bent towards the driver's side. if you look at our stock mount on the driver's side, it comes out of the timing belt area, and goes straight to the side, this is what i'm referring to.

i'm located in ypsilanti, michigan, well, i usually am, but right now i'm visiting my in-laws, near New orleans, louisiana, and will be here until the 28th. in a few weeks, i'll be driving out to falls church, virginia, in the d.c. area, but i'm usually in michigan. i'd make a road trip, but i already have a lot of driving i have to do this summer, and i'm getting kinda sick of it (i still haven't put the carpeting back in my G, talk about road noise).

to my understanding, the reason you can't see knock on a 2g with a conventional logger, is that the obd II diagnostic port does not broadcast this information, and so you can't read what isn't there. now if you were to get something unconventional, like dsmlink (read about it at dsmink.com ) then you could read knock, and much more. taken from their site: "Datalogging: Capture everything you could imagine, including knock! Sample rates of almost 300 bytes per second, which translates to roughly 20 frames of 11 values per second. " however, "DSMLink base price: $595 + shipping" you will also need an EPROM ecu to use it, which as far as i've seen, are more rare, and/or expensive. personally, i would have gone that route if i could have at the time, however, AEM has now released the EMS for dsms, for around $1400 or so, which i would much prefer over either of those, if only i had the money. to use dsmlink, or the EMS, you'd also need a laptop. pocketlogger costs $155 plus the cost of a pda for a 1g, and $175 for a 2g (read about at pocketlogger.com ).

when i had to replace the mount, it involved removing the timing belt, test fitting the stock 7g mount, taking it to a shop to have it trimmed down, then reinstalling everything. i would highly suggest changing your water pump, timing belt, and the mount while the engine is outside of the engine bay. i had to change my water pump after the engine was in, (the shaft broke) and it wasn't much fun at all.

[fstrthnu]

Michigan!!! Dang...I'm on the coast of NC. It's close to VA though... https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

I'm still waiting to talk to criag before I go ahead and buy the harness and ecu...just to see how happy he is with the 2g wiring. I know you've explained alot of what needs to be done in great detail but I just don't want to run into any surprises once I start the swap next week. Thanks for the water pump hint. hehe. I have 2 galant 5 speed trannies, one good and one with a 1st to 2nd synchro going bad. Should i put one in the car and start rebuilding the other one or can I sell the spare? If you catch my drift, :wink: .

So I use the whole wiring harness out of an 1g, totally swapping it in for the stock one? You also said that I need some 2g connectors? Which ones or am I pretty much going to need a whole 2g harness?

[sabzi5858]

yeah, i'm quite a bit aways, and unfortunately, falls church, VA is about 7 hours away from jacksonville, NC, so i don't think that's too likely either.

yeah, it's a good idea to talk to craig about the swap also. he was of great help to me when i was first considering the swap, and although i took a bit of a different approach, a lot of what he said was essential in making decisions.

craig and i are both using 7g trannies to the best of my knowledge, but i'm not sure if he's had any problems. he suggested to get a 2g tranny, and the only reason i didn't is because i put too much money into the engine and turbo/supporting mods. if i could afford it, i would get a built 2g tranny from www.teamrip.com they're conveniently (for me) located in lansing, MI, and i've heard they do excellent work. however, i plan on converting to awd sometime, so the next tranny i get will have to be awd. althought i personally haven't had any problems with my tranny so far, i don't trust it too much. i ran a 14.4@106mph, but that was shifting slow and the boost was coming on very slowly, so my engine may be putting out a lot of power, but it doesn't hit the tranny hard. once i get a new exhaust manifold gasket and lean out my low rpms, then i'll see how it affects the tranny. craig has had his for a lot longer than i have, so you should find out from him exactly how his is holding up. but remember, even uys with 2g trannies break them when they try to lay down a lot of power, and for some reason i doubt the 7g tranny is built much better.

if you're going to use a 1g harness, you only need the first segment that connects to the ecu. you want to use the stock fuse box, and don't mess with any of the wiring that comes into the engine bay from the driver's side. i had to solder a few wires, but it wasn't that much of a big deal once i looked at the wiring diagrams for the 1g. if you have the wiring diagrams for the 7g, it will make things a whole lot easier, unfortunately, i didn't have those and had to do a lot of logical work to figure out which wire was for what. you won't need anything from the 2g if you use the 1g stuff, you'll need some of the stock 7g stuff. speedometer connector, windshield wipers, and fuse box is one of those things. the control for the headlights comes from the drivers side of the engine bay, so you won't need to mess with that, but you will need to find a way to give power to the circuit which powers both the headlights, and the windshield wipers. the stock clock is also on the same circuit. this circuit is supposed to be connected when the ecu powers up, but since you'll be taking out the 7g ecu, and its relay, you'll need to give it power from a different source. if you want it to work like stock (only having power when the key is in the on position) then you should wire it into your new ecu relay (called a mfi relay iirc). oh yeah, for some reason they've included the connecter for a diagnostic port which is the same as the 1g diagnostic port, but it isn't wired up except for a speedo output. you'll have to wire it up if you want to use it (only 2 wires). if you want to install a turbo timer (get one for a 2g regardless of which ecu u have), you'll have to re-wire it (which is easy to do if you have a wiring diagram for the 2g eclipse, because the plug on the car is labeled, how nice of mitsu (must be to make it even easier for people to hotwire the car). another thing i just remembered, i hat to hard-wire the radiator-fan relay to a coolant temp switch (works good). i don't have the wire connected to the power steering pump, and at this point, i don't have an oil pressure gauge, which will also have to be hard-wired, due to the lack of a stock oil pressure gauge. maybe this is just in the 's' trim though?

so yeah, if you want to use the 1g ecu, get the 1g engine wiring harness, make sure you get the injector resistor pack (an aluminum looking sheetmetal box). and you'll need the mfi control relay, or whatever it's called, it's in the wiring diagrams, which i don't have because they're in michigan. and do not destroy the 7g wiring harness until you know exactly what you need. there may be more, but i can't think right now because of the stress my in-laws have been dealng me, and i have no wiring diagrams, nor my car in front of me. sorry for the ranting

[sabzi5858]

if you want, you can check out the "4g63t swap help" in the 7g performance forum, i mentioned some things there that i forgot to here.

[fstrthnu]

As of last night my motor is now sitting in my garage waiting to be put in. :twisted: . Since it is a JDM engine it has the cyclone intake manifold on it...Does anyone know how to wire this up to work on a 1g harness or am I better off ditching it for a 1g manifold and throttle body?

BTW sabzi, I decided to go the 1g ecu/ harness route. How did you go about moving that engine mount. I know you had ot trim it a little but did you actually have to cut the mount off and relocate it? Thanks for the help and anything else you can through at me.

I've decided to keep the ported 16g/2g manifold,02 housing w/ dump and put it on the new motor to replace the 14b. I'm looking for 300hp right off the bat....

[ken inn]

the cyclone intake was designed to improve low end power. it does this very nicely, additionally, my fuel economy greatly improved, especially freeway cruise. i used 2 solenoids, controlled by a hobbs pressure switch. the vr4/t/e/l turbos comes with several solenoids, lots of people just disable the egr and fuel purge system, and take off the solenoids. if you know any owners of these cars, they probably have these solenoids in a little box somewhere. to make the system work, you MUST have the blue/white plastic cannister, it is found in a bracket in the surge tank bracket under the intake manifold. this cannister is a vacuum resevoir/one way valve, and the system will not work without it. i used the fuel purge solenoid(normally open=no) and the boost control solenoid(normally closed=nc). the hobbs switch controls both solenoids, vacuum is routed to the butterfly actuator thru the no solenoid, when the hobbs switch closes, power goes to both solenoids, the no closes, the nc opens, sending now boost to the actuator, which opens the butterflies. i have the hobbs switch set to about 6-8 lbs boost. on the vr4, you must modify the mounting of the coil, which goes on the side on the cyclone, instead of inside the intake, like on the stocker. on the vr4, the coil will hit the a/c line. also, quite a bit of the surge tank bracket must be ground off, or it will hit the back of the a/c compressor, and cut the line to the clutch. dont even THINK about taking off the cyclone and installing it later. you CANNOT get at the lower bolts holding the manifold to the head unless you take apart the cyclone. if you take apart the cyclone, you need new gaskets, they are not available, you will have to make them.

[fstrthnu]

Where can I find the hobbs switch and do you honestly think that the cyclone is worth the trouble?

[hyer717]

Why are you using the first gen harness? I thought you said the second gen. would be easier? Is there any way to just use your stock harness? Later.

[ken inn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fstrthnu)</div><div class='quotemain'>Where can I find the hobbs switch and do you honestly think that the cyclone is worth the trouble?</div>

napa has the switches. and, yup. i think the cyclone is worth the hassle, but, i dont race the car. what i notice is quicker spoolup, better fuel economy, better low end.

[sabzi5858]

i figured out the way i'm going to try to hookup the cyclone, works in theory, but i'm not shure if that little white canister can take the torture from extra boost. but theoretically, a mbc should be able to replace it as it is a 1 way valve, and would hold vacuum if it weren't for a little hole drilled in it to allow the wastegate to reclose. i ordered a pressure switch meant for nitrous made by nos that i'll be using, i just need to find a valve that can be activated electronically, i'm sure nos makes one though. actually, one of the solenoids would probably work fine. after i try it out, i'll tell you if it works, but first i need a new exhaust manifold gasket so that my car is actually capable of reaching full boost. if you want the diagram, i'll send it to you.

the stock 1g intake manifold flows a little better than the cyclone for top-end. personally, with the turbo i have, i could use less spool-up time. or not, we'll see, cause i'm not sure if this fwd needs any more low-end power than it has. on an awd, i'd want all the low-end i could get though https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif .

if your engine mount looks like the one in your car(driver's side) then you don't have to do anything. if it is a different one, it unbolts from the head, you may have to unbolt the power steering bracket, and some other things, i don't remember exactly what i had to unbolt, but it's a pretty straight-forward process. if you don't have it already, but the dsm manual http://www.ecanfix.com/~manualcd/ ('http://www.ecanfix.com/~manualcd/') and a torque wrench so you can torque everything back down to spec. it may not be necessary, but i suggest it, and on certain things such as the oil feed line coming out of the head, if you over-torque it, you can strip the thread, and that wouldn't be too much fun. to put your mount on, you'll have to take it off your 4g64, take off the timing belt cover, timing belt, and auto-tensioner on the 4g63, and test fit the mount (you'll notice it interferes with the water pump) mark how much you want trimmed off, and take care of that, then bolt everything back up (install a new water pump/timing belt while you're at it). from magnus motor sports, you need "2G Engine mount (modified) use 2g engine mount trimmed, with 1g tensioner arm " look at their 1g in a 2g article, the phsyical parts will apply to you, but not the ecu/wiring modifications. it's not much trimming, just one of the bolt holes is used by the 1g water pump so you have to trim the part that interferes. look at this article to see where the mount is trimmed http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6bolt...otorinstall.htm ('http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6boltmotorinstall.htm') but don't worry about the other stuff, it'll probably just confuse you, and is no longer necessary.

[fstrthnu]

Thanks for the help sabzi and ken inn... https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

I do have the little blue and white canister under the intake. Is there anyway you could give me a flow chart for the vacuum lines and solonoids/hobbs switch? Pleaaaassssssseee! https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif That would help alot. Sorry for all the questions guys but I just want to make sure I have everything straight.

Maybe when I'm done with the swap I'll make a how to or something...

[ken inn]

you should go to www.galantvr4.org, and www.dsmtalk.com, and do a search. you will find a whole lot of diagrams. watch out for the idiots who have never had a cyclone, or who have one but dont have it hooked up correctly, or who dont like it because it doesnt out flow a stock intake(the stock intake, at wot, will outflow the cyclone by 2 cfm. yippee. an extrude honed stock intake ouflows the cyclone by 6 cfm. hooorah).

[fstrthnu]

Ken inn, I did a search on those forums and everywhere else and had no luck finding a diagram or anything for putting on a cyclone intake. I don't know, maybe I'm retarted or something. :x . Could you please send me something or give me your number so I can give you call? b/c I'm lost right now and I need to figure this out before this weekend when the engine is going in. Thanks for your help. -John

[sabzi5858]

i have a diagram set up which would work based on physics, but the only thing i don't know is if the white canister can handle as much boost as i want to throw at it the opposite way as it should be going. i'll post it, but it won't be tested until i get home, which won't be till the 28th

[HiperSilver]

cyclone comes with a soleniod that is mounted on the firewall I THINK**
Most times it does not come with the engine and its a pretty stupid setup. cuz all the dsm guys i know that buy these engines switch to a 1g manifold.

[ken inn]

i run 18 lbs boost on my car, the cannister has held up so far. most guys are just looking for top end power, that is why they dont use the cyclone. also, it takes a bit more work to install it and get it operating properly, and then all it does is increase low end power, driveability, and fuel economy. i got 18 lbs boost on a ported big 16g, evo 560's, hks cams, yada, yada, i got more top end that i will even need. i like the added benefits of the cyclone, and i dont race the car. heck, i am even thinking about removing the hks cams.

[sabzi5858]

hmm, i'm planning on running around 22-25psi on the street, it was running 19psi with no knock, and the fuel pressure turned way down, so i should be okay. except now i have to worry about the stock headgasket. if all the canister does is act as a one-way valve and a vacuum reservoir, a manual boost controller is the same thing except it has a bleeder hole. so if you eliminate the bleeder hole, it should act the same. the reason i want to use this is because 1. i can't reach that damn white canister now that my engine is mounted, and 2. i have an extra mbc sitting around collecting dust. did you notice a difference in spool-up? that's the primary reason i want to hook it up. gas mileage doesn't hurt either though, although i'm still a bit boost-happy https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[fstrthnu]

Sabzi, do I just need the harness that plugs into the ecu or the WHOLE engine harness? B/c I just found a rebuilt 1g ecu for 125 and the harness that plugs into it for 45.

Also, does anybody know what the difference between 1990 and 1991 ecu's? B/c the part numbers are different. Maybe different sensors or something? Which should I get? Which one does sabzi have?

[fstrthnu]

Oh, and thank you ken inn for the diagram. It answered all of my questions. https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[sabzi5858]

you need the part of the harness that plugs into the ecu, the old fuse box etc stays. you can get either ecu, just get the same year harness, or you'll have to switch pins 6 & 14. i have a '90 awd ecu and harness. also, make sure the harness is not cut, you'll need most of the connectors.

[sabzi5858]

there are a lot of dirrerent ecu part numbers, see http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ECUs.html ('http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ECUs.html') from vfaq.com, if you have your part numbers, you can see what exactly they're from. oh, i also have a federal ecu, the ca ecu might have emissions requirements, but i'm not shure. i didn't want to deal with it and got a fed spec to begin with. 3/89-6/90 - MD145903 is what i have.

[ken inn]

the reason the mbc will not work is because it will not collect vacuum. the blue/white cannister holds vacuum, and also dampens out the pulses. if you attach a vacuum gauge to the cannister, you will see vacuum change very smoothly, and not a lot. if you read vacuum off of the intake, it is jumping all over the place, and this will make the butterflies flap like real butterfly wings.

[sabzi5858]

an mbc should hold vacuum if it doesn't have a bleeder hole drilled into the wastegate side nipple, that's what the hole is for, so that the wastegate can close again after it's been opened. an in-line filter should be able to dampen the change from boost to vacuum.. well, i'll see, i'm going to try to test it for the guys who don't have the white canister.. besides, i don't even wanna try to reach that stupid canister while it's under the intake manifold and in the engine bay.

[sabzi5858]

my diagram is here http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289...220745351&idx=1 ('http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289579813&p=4220745351&idx=1') do you think it would work if you switch the mbc with the white canister? i mean, can you think of any problems presented by this?