RIPP and the TGC Misconception with regards to power 4G64

[RIPPMODS]

Hey guys, I have spent the better part of the morning reading the turbo thread on what one should do to build power on the 4cyl…. I very impressed wit the information being shared, but unimpressed with the facts being stated about our system.

While I respect all the packages and the combinations of parts being assembled, there is a huge misconception with regards to what we sought out to do. Our main objective was to create a clean and easy install with regards to a FI kit… that will make good usable power in a reliable package, with room to grow when needed. We had no idea of the lengths you will search to get a system to work in your cars, with regards to the combination you are assembling.

Some of you stated that “For the price you spend on the SC kit you can build a 4G engine, turbo charge it, and run it for a year�. Such is not the case, your leaving out a great deal of detail with regards to our product (no one to blame but us for letting the info slip here).

Our system comes with every thing you need to make it work…. No exceptions:
RIPP SDS Brushed aluminum (Supercharger Drive System)
RIPP/Vortech V5-G-TRIM Polished
RIPP Black Box electronics (Timing and fuel controller)
RIPP Injector for fuel enrichment
RIPP Blow off valvw
All hard piping Brushed aluminum
Fuel pressure regulator
Fuel pressure gauge
Walboro 255 fuel pump
Air filter
Couplers
Clamps
Oil return/feed lines
RIPP NO weld oil pan return fitting
ALL hardware
Belt and tensioner
Fully illustrated instruction
Tech line
1 year warrantee SDS
2 year on the Supercharger through RIPP

Link to SDS-4G64:
http://www.rippmods.com/products/products_...rs&productId=81 ('http://www.rippmods.com/products/products_list_details.asp?menuid=3&vehcName=Mitsubishi+Eclipse+I4+%2D+2000%2B&vehcCat=Engines&vehcDesc=Supercharger%20Drive%20Sytem%20For%204G64 %20Powered%20cars&productId=81')

With 33 sold over at the 3G boards, we have not had one engine failure to date, same with the transmission.

We have been working with stage two and its doing very well, contrary to previous posts and assumptions from others, Stage 2 dose not cost $4000…in addition to the SDS-4G74. We are now up to 252whp at 8psi on stock internals, these ratings are on a 5spd, but none the less the WHP is there.

Stage 2 includes; (TBA)
SDS-4G74 Stage 1 $3500
RIPP Over drive crank pulley (TBA)
270cc injectors (TBA)
Front mount intercooler (pending introduction TBA)

Now, there seems to be a on going debate about the turbo… vs. supercharger, I will not start any discussion on the too, as that has been beaten to death…. I do however want to point out the fact that the system is completely plug and play, and that all the thinking and guess work has been done, and the cars run as stock with no issues at all. The main reason is we have developed our own electronics that monitor timing and fuel parameters while boosting and under normal driving conditions.

There is also a misconception that our system has “peaky� boost… Were exactly are you getting this from? As a matter of fact, our system will make boost very early in the RPM range and maintain it throughout the mid range RPM band, remember, we are performance tuners, so we made it the way it should be…. There is no reason to play with boost levels with a working system… only upgrades as needed. We would like to provide a working concept, not a hypothetical situation that brings concern….

There is a level of safety second to none on the market. All this on jus the 4cyl auto cars, there no buying internals or searching for parts on EBay, or junk yards…. I understand the kit cost more than you would like to spend, but given the level of education being posted on these boards, we would be willing to strip our kit down to make it more appealing to some of you...

Link to header program:
http://www.rippmods.com/products/products_...rs&productId=83 ('http://www.rippmods.com/products/products_list_details.asp?menuid=3&vehcName=Mitsubishi+Eclipse+I4+%2D+2000%2B&vehcCat=Engines&vehcDesc=Full%20Stainless%20Steel%20Race%20header% 20for%204G64%20Powered%20Cars&productId=83')

If you want us to further elaborate on this we will, if not let us know what we can do to root ourselves with this community as we did with the 3G V6 guys and I4 guys.

Your thoughts,
Ross Esposito
Rippmods
718-442-4723
www.rippmods.com

[8ggalant]

good info bro...now that u put it that way...i think id luv to own the stage two kit with fmic...still cant afford it tho... and im one of the guys who said tha whole thing about bein able to put a kit together for less etc etc....but thats only cuz i already have the parts and a good mechanic to back me up...i do prefer turbo...but for bang for buck withall the r&d u guys offer...sc is a good way to go....congrats on all yer success...keep it up :thumbsup:

[Dukeplaya31]

I haven't really kept up to date with your products so I apologize if this question is redundant, but does your sds system apply to the 7g galant 64 motor as well??

I am becoming more and more interested in the addition of an sds system on my soon to be fully built motor.
If not, any plans to do so?
What would be the estimate price for me to be a tester?

Please pm me or respond back in the thread.

[RIPPMODS]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dukeplaya31)</div><div class='quotemain'>I haven't really kept up to date with your products so I apologize if this question is redundant, but does your sds system apply to the 7g galant 64 motor as well??

I am becoming more and more interested in the addition of an sds system on my soon to be fully built motor.
If not, any plans to do so?
What would be the estimate price for me to be a tester?

Please pm me or respond back in the thread.</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(evil-G-nious )</div><div class='quotemain'>(aka Kimya) wrote: Â*
I would love to donate my car for the test fitting for the automatic 4cyl on a 7g. One problem, I live in LA now. The other thing is I am broke right now so...but if you can think of some way around the distance, I will be more than happy to let you guys use my car .</div>


We have no 7th gen planned, the Galant community has not shown the level of support, we would need to continue proto typing for it, we need to know that you are willing to invest into our projects before we can commit to n=more product.

Regards,
Rippmods

[Fast99ES]

Yo Ross...I was already convinced on this kit... I'm currently saving up for the stage 2 kit...What convinced me even more is I seen a kit in person...not a 4cyl kit but a v-6 kit on a Dodge Stratus R/T...Holy shit...That thing is fuckin insane...Man...He is gettin crazy power out of that thing and plans on adding your headers as well...But jus seeing the piece of work in person was more than enough to convince me on your product...as I said I am saving for the kit and with news of the stage 2 I will buy that when it does come out...Keep up the good work Ripp...BTW...and tranny upgrades u guys reccomend?

[bam462]

way to put it ross, no bullshit, just facts. im down but i gotta save first, i plan on gettin those headers also so keep makin um. like feild of dreams "if you build it, they will come"

[BigMike]

Since my 6a13TT swap is up in the air right now, i would like to know how much one of these superchargers would run me... I saw 3500, but is that for the whole thing??? sorry if i had not read the whole post...i'm unknowledgeable when it comes to the engine....i'm looking into it...someone hit me back

[Jeff]

Ross, you are awesome! If I had the loot, I'd already have this kit ordered along with the header. Your info is always appreciated on here, as well as the "new projects." Personally, I don't think the price is too high. People here drop 150-225 for a CAI that only yields what, 8 hp tops. I'm a strong believer of "you get what you pay for" and for the numbers you're puttin' down, its definitely worth it. Expect a call from me in the future...probably closer to after stage 2 has been released and tested on the 4cyl. platform. Damn bills and school loans. Thanks Ross.

[Gir]

"Now, there seems to be a on going debate about the turbo… vs. supercharger, I will not start any discussion on the too, as that has been beaten to death…. I do however want to point out the fact that the system is completely plug and play, and that all the thinking and guess work has been done, and the cars run as stock with no issues at all. The main reason is we have developed our own electronics that monitor timing and fuel parameters while boosting and under normal driving conditions.

There is also a misconception that our system has “peaky� boost… Were exactly are you getting this from? As a matter of fact, our system will make boost very early in the RPM range and maintain it throughout the mid range RPM band, remember, we are performance tuners, so we made it the way it should be…. There is no reason to play with boost levels with a working system… only upgrades as needed. We would like to provide a working concept, not a hypothetical situation that brings concern….




I believe this article should kinda give the most truth that can be offered as to how turbos and superchargers could best be viewed. The part in particular I found to be the most informative was this.

http://www.t04r.com/techturbovssuper.html ('http://www.t04r.com/techturbovssuper.html')

Because of the direct drive nature of a supercharger, flow and pressure generated by the supercharger increases in direct proportion to crank and hence engine revolutions. If an engine redlines at X rpm, the maximum boost (Z) that the engine will tolerate will also be set to coincide with X rpm, so that you are neither losing performance or damaging the engine. This means that at half X rpm, boost pressure from the supercharger will also be half Z of the total available. This is a disadvantage compared to a turbocharger as a modern turbo correctly sized to an engine can reach Z boost pressure by half X at the very latest. What this means is that if an engine redlines at 6000rpm and is supercharged at 6psi (a common figure), the engine is receiving 6psi boost only at 6000rpm. At 3000rpm the engine will receive induction air at only 3psi, and at 3500rpm would have 3.5psi boost. On an engine with a 6000rpm redline, a modern correctly sized turbo on the other hand will be at full 6psi boost by 3500rpm, which translates to greater torque from the increased boost and hence greater power at 3500rpm than the supercharged engine would have at 3500rpm from only 3.5psi, or just above half boost.

I'm defintily not out to be a cock here or say that superchargers suck!!! or be dumb like that. I'm just trying to say that turbos aren't a bad idea either if you've got the pockets for them. Defintly mad props to RIPP for developing the SDS system. If you want to make the car as fast as possible, I believe that a turbo setup would be better to go from though. Again, just opinon.

[Jeff]

you're right...turbo will produce more power, but the sds that RIPP developed was made to add power to a stock platform. you can't add a turbo kit to a stock engine and expect to put down alot of psi without something going wrong. but yeah, if you want a ton of power, have the time and the funds, turbo all the way. but the sds is more of an option for us that are using our G's as daily drivers. minimal downtime and still a very nice increase in performance without upgrading engine internals. Now if I'm wrong, please correct me. I've researched this since the original post, but I could've misunderstood something.

[Fast99ES]

Hey Ross...any news on the stage 2 kit?????

[leadfoot]

i dont know about all that ripp has comeout with a 15 psi pulley and the new stage 2 has bigger injectors, that high psi pulley and a front mount intercooler i think maybe if the motor is built right the SDS will be able to outrun a turbocharged 8g i would love a race between a stock 8g galant turbo and a SDS . ps the SDS also makes more torgue than a turbo. i dont know if im right on this but i THINK dj galant has turboed galant and is puting down 180whp or so and about 140 torque vs the SDS making 179whp and 178wtq (both numbers are at the wheels). i personaly am going with the SDS.

[Gir]

i dont know about all that ripp has comeout with a 15 psi pulley and the new stage 2 has bigger injectors, that high psi pulley and a front mount intercooler i think maybe if the motor is built right the SDS will be able to outrun a turbocharged 8g i would love a race between a stock 8g galant turbo and a SDS . ps the SDS also makes more torgue than a turbo. i dont know if im right on this but i THINK dj galant has turboed galant and is puting down 180whp or so and about 140 torque vs the SDS making 179whp and 178wtq (both numbers are at the wheels). i personaly am going with the SDS.


Boost is boost....regardless of what is producing it. Superchargers by their nature are parasitic on the engine system, you have to use crank power to drive the charger. Given that both platforms would produce x boost, and also given that the x boost would be created at a sooner time, on a properly suited turbo, lasting for a longer duration. I believe DJ galant has different pistons, SDS kits are running on stock pistons. That changes how power is made, especially by loosing a few points of compression. By adding/subtracting even half a point of compression, your motor can come to life, die, or be very sluggish. I could be wrong about DJ's setup, but then again, I think he had to replace his pistons at least once...so that would mean he probably had some JE's or something new put in. Point is, the boost is boost, no matter where you have it. Just knowing where teh boost hits in a turbo system car, versus the supercharger is what'll make your decision. Yes, the SC will "feel" stronger with no percieved off boost, or "turbo lag" if you would. The throtle response can be termed as more linear wiht a supercharger, but the turbo will give you a more sudden jerk when the inital spool is finished.

[J apmetal]

I also seem to remember DJ mentioning new pistons to adjust his compression to suit the turbo setup

I alos thnk that part of the fun of all that power is the experience of driving, and I much prefer the sound of a supercharger spooling up to the noise of a turbo, so I personally will be going for the RIPP SDS kit as soon as my car [and my funds !] is ready for it.

It's not as if most people here will ever reach the extreme limits of what our engines can do, so I doubt the "Loss" of power to parasitic drag would matter to the average mortal.

[Green Machine]

:shock: :shock: I have found my meaning in life. And it is supercharged. :shock: :shock:

[BXNYMitsu01]

I also seem to remember DJ mentioning new pistons to adjust his compression to suit the turbo setup

I alos thnk that part of the fun of all that power is the experience of driving, and I much prefer the sound of a supercharger spooling up to the noise of a turbo, so I personally will be going for the RIPP SDS kit as soon as my car [and my funds !] is ready for it.

It's not as if most people here will ever reach the extreme limits of what our engines can do, so I doubt the "Loss" of power to parasitic drag would matter to the average mortal.


Ah yes; Spoken like a true gentilmen! :wink:

[RIPPMODS]

i dont know about all that ripp has comeout with a 15 psi pulley and the new stage 2 has bigger injectors, that high psi pulley and a front mount intercooler i think maybe if the motor is built right the SDS will be able to outrun a turbocharged 8g i would love a race between a stock 8g galant turbo and a SDS . ps the SDS also makes more torgue than a turbo. i dont know if im right on this but i THINK dj galant has turboed galant and is puting down 180whp or so and about 140 torque vs the SDS making 179whp and 178wtq (both numbers are at the wheels). i personaly am going with the SDS.


Boost is boost....regardless of what is producing it. Superchargers by their nature are parasitic on the engine system, you have to use crank power to drive the charger. Given that both platforms would produce x boost, and also given that the x boost would be created at a sooner time, on a properly suited turbo, lasting for a longer duration. I believe DJ galant has different pistons, SDS kits are running on stock pistons. That changes how power is made, especially by loosing a few points of compression. By adding/subtracting even half a point of compression, your motor can come to life, die, or be very sluggish. I could be wrong about DJ's setup, but then again, I think he had to replace his pistons at least once...so that would mean he probably had some JE's or something new put in. Point is, the boost is boost, no matter where you have it. Just knowing where teh boost hits in a turbo system car, versus the supercharger is what'll make your decision. Yes, the SC will "feel" stronger with no percieved off boost, or "turbo lag" if you would. The throtle response can be termed as more linear wiht a supercharger, but the turbo will give you a more sudden jerk when the inital spool is finished.

Hmm.. I’ve missed this post for a while... and I refuse to get into a turbo this and SC that discussion... but May I add while your right, we have never said that the RIPP SDS makes more power or will make more power than a turbo... In fact we barley mention the word turbo in any of our posts.....

If you want to talk facts... it's no problem... I will be glad to fill in your blanks... the TC is 16-19% more powerful over a broad spectrum.. it will always be... but be quick to point out also that the SC is 85-90% more reliable in every shape way and form.... Also your talking TC in general on all applications, we are talking SC on THIS APPLICATION... we have TC this engine in this car.. and it failed miserably, for several reasons....

Now, getting back to facts... RIPP is responsible for the most powerful and fastest 3G or rather 6G72 powered cars in the country (all 130 of them), we have done extensive research on the subject and found that our SC at 11psi only robs 7-11hp... Hmmm 7-11hp but get 135hp, run correctly and be backed by a company and customer service second to none... followed by a 2 year warrantee....

Hey! you want more power... more power to you.... but don't go off topic, or hide behind the message your trying politely to interject... There is way more pros to cons on the SDS than I even need to list....The TC almost undoubtedly needs piston to run, as the piston have very high ring landings with porous metal, which does not like the heat generated by the turbo…

Your point is… the TC will just surge boost on at a later RPM… and if I may, and with all due respect… how do you plan on controlling this boost surge, in relation to the timing and fuel?

Your points towards the “Linear feel� or Dynamic boost curve� is exactly the reason you should go with a SC over a TC… the TC has no consistence… you seem very up to speed with the info about why the TC is better, you neglect to inform the rest of the board, that the ECU’s in these cars are ADAPTIVE, so please, inform us as to how the adaptive technology of the ECU will deal with a variable boost and fuel curve…

The SC consistence is what makes it reliable… the boost curve will always be the same, over and over… once the ECU learns it, it starts to maximize it’s own power curve, this combined with the injectors and supplied fuel upgrades makes it a complete and reliable package….

Fact is your investing into a SYSTEM that was designed to work properly in every aspect of the experience.... Power, drivability, install, and support... you don't find this in your group (6G72) unless you own a Supra or Honda, and they are Japanese companies with High Ticket prices...

While the majority of the posters seem to agree with the consistent fact we have brought up time and time again, we don't ever want to loss sight of the fact that right now.. we have the most comprehensive packages on the market...

Ohh and we have been done with Stg 2 for some time now.... but have not announced it....in due time....

After all... who wants a more powerful broken car?

[paco]

Keep up the good work Ripp...BTW...and tranny upgrades u guys reccomend?

same question here

[RIPPMODS]

Nice... good question:

In 130 kits not ONE blown trans 5spd or Auto... the 5spd guys have upgraded to the KAAZ LSD.

This is simple, the SC is very smooth, it brings boost on very consistent so the ECU can learn it up, so the trans learns it as well. It doesn’t shift faster, but the trans deals with the power beautifully.

Both GT27, and VegasMatt had the same question, my response was simple, put 3 row trans cooler in and a trans temp gauge, keep the temps under 210 and you'll always be OK....

Rippmods

[Jeff]

Ohh and we have been done with Stg 2 for some time now.... but have not announced it....in due time....

That makes you "God for the Day!" :twisted: :twisted: C'mon budget. Don't fail me now.

[bam462]

good update ross im half way to havin enought money for you scs and headers. so keep up the good work. just seems like sum peeps just gotta be devils advocate for a day or life time. but im sold

[Gir]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Hmm.. I’ve missed this post for a while... and I refuse to get into a turbo this and SC that discussion... but May I add while your right, Â*we have never said that the RIPP SDS makes more power or will make more power than a turbo... In fact we barley mention the word turbo in any of our posts..... Â*

If you want to talk facts... it's no problem... I will be glad to fill in your blanks... the TC is 16-19% more powerful over a broad spectrum.. it will always be... but be quick to point out also that the SC is 85-90% more reliable in every shape way and form.... Also your talking TC in general on all applications, we are talking SC on THIS APPLICATION... we have TC this engine in this car.. and it failed miserably, for several reasons....</div>

How is a supercharger any more reliable? If you put synthetic oil into a turbo car ever 2.5k-3k miles, pay attention for oil leaks, look at your gagues and know what they mean, properly cool and warm up the motor before you turn off and drive your car then you can easily and safely run a turbo. 1 and 2g cars run just fine on a 14b/T25 till around 100k miles then the turbo needs a rebuild usually. I don't see how that is much of a problem. 100k miles on a forced induction car isn't a bad deal.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Now, getting back to facts... RIPP is responsible for the most powerful and fastest 3G or rather 6G72 powered cars in the country (all 130 of them), we have done extensive research on the subject and found that our SC at 11psi only robs 7-11hp... Hmmm 7-11hp but get 135hp, run correctly and be backed by a company and customer service second to none... followed by a 2 year warrantee....</div>

Facts? I've been saying facts this whole time. I'm talking strictly 4g64/4g63 cars. I personally don't know anything at all about 6a motors, that is definitly a different ball of wax. If I were to do a TT 6a motor, I'd go with the stock turbos from a 3si, thus potential for 300 hp with stock turbos and less weight than a 3si.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Hey! you want more power... more power to you.... but don't go off topic, or hide behind the message your trying politely to interject... There is way more pros to cons on the SDS than I even need to list....The TC almost undoubtedly needs piston to run, as the piston have very high ring landings with porous metal, which does not like the heat generated by the turbo…</div>

I'm not hiding, I was telling people that a turbo is the way to go. I never once said anything at all about hiding. Far as i know people can speak their minds and interject if they like. Pistons on a 4g64 will run just fine with a T25/14b. If you go higher, yes you will need pistons. 4g64 motors have the same pistons as a 2g, which like I've said before, and like dsmtalk.com has also proven, run just fine to about 300 hp, 400 for 1g big rods.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Your point is… the TC will just surge boost on at a later RPM… and if I may, and with all due respect… how do you plan on controlling this boost surge, in relation to the timing and fuel? </div>

Fuel - pocketlogger with a short term fuel trim +5%.
Timing? Why is this a problem? If i wanted to get nuts with this I suppose I could go 63/64 hybrid and put dsmlink and adjust the timing right there...? Does that answer your question?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Your points towards the “Linear feel� or Dynamic boost curve� is exactly the reason you should go with a SC over a TC… the TC has no consistence… you seem very up to speed with the info about why the TC is better, you neglect to inform the rest of the board, that the ECU’s in these cars are ADAPTIVE, so please, inform us as to how the adaptive technology of the ECU will deal with a variable boost and fuel curve…</div>

I like liberal sprinkling of buzz words in there. "adaptive, technology," It's just an ECU, and it's just going to learn yes. You simply stick an AFC in front of it. The ECU will see the see the same voltages as it was in the first place and will simply cope with the new AFC's interpertation of how things should be. New injectors are a must 450s at least with a small turbo. I'm still trying to understand how you aren't hitting fuel cut on the stock injectors with any boosted system. Max duty should have been hit a long time ago on the stock 4g motor cars. Boost is not unpredictable. If you have a given turbo and you are spooling it at point x, the boost usually will be the same if you run WOT. That's an easy way to tell if you have a problem in the system actually. If you are having odd quantities of boost popping up for some unexplicable reason.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The SC consistence is what makes it reliable… the boost curve will always be the same, over and over… once the ECU learns it, it starts to maximize it’s own power curve, this combined with the injectors and supplied fuel upgrades makes it a complete and reliable package….</div>

Yes, the stock ECU will indeed benefit from using a supercharger. Any aftermarket ECU/hacked MAS/GM MAS combo will provide a better setup for a turbo. Yes, you will get consistence out of a supercharger. Just like you will out of a properly tuned turbo. Like you said earlier if you want to talk facts, keep it at that. If you spend the time on the dyno an get the tuning right, you can get a turbo to pull consistent runs without the headaches and wallet aches. If you slap a turbo on and never dyno it and never look at what you need to fix, and stay with a narrowband O2 sensor, you will have a car on blocks. If you put a wideband, and pay the time on the dyno, then you will get the results you are after.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Fact is your investing into a SYSTEM that was designed to work properly in every aspect of the experience.... Power, drivability, install, and support... you don't find this in your group (6G72) unless you own a Supra or Honda, and they are Japanese companies with High Ticket prices...</div>

Not just supras and hondas go fast when turboed. Forgetting anything involving an SR/RB motor there aren't you? What about the 1.8T motors for VW's? EJ20? What about non-2jz toyotas? What about 3sGTE setups? 4AGE? I think you neglected a great deal of really potent motors there. That was kind of off topic there, but the point is that no there isn't much 6a motor support. This is fact. You have created a good kit, I am not disputing that. It's cool, but it is wayyy too deep of a pocket for my taste. Turbo setups can be basically grafted from a 1/2g, and will work just fine for less cash and have equal or more potential. Another point I suppose, is that if i wanted to, I could go buy a Greddy 2g kit and simply use that with a hybrid setup and still probably come out cheaper than your kit, with the same level of reliability.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>While the majority of the posters seem to agree with the consistent fact we have brought up time and time again, we don't ever want to loss sight of the fact that right now.. we have the most comprehensive packages on the market... </div>

Yes, I never once questioned the build quality of your materials or the amount of time and effort expended into making the project a reality. Your kit is defintily for the plug-and-play type of person who cannot do without a huge user's manual to show him/her where to plug things in, and where to bolt things to. That is fine for the vast majority of people.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Ohh and we have been done with Stg 2 for some time now.... but have not announced it....in due time....

After all... who wants a more powerful broken car?</div>

All DSM's break...in due time. It is fate.

[Strahan]

Gir, I edited your post and added quote delineation cuz trying to follow who said what in your post was giving me a headache https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[akiraflux]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Strahan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Gir, I edited your post and added quote delineation cuz trying to follow who said what in your post was giving me a headache https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif</div>

well holy shit. not i'm not NEARLY as confused. i was like "gir is...reposting...whats already been said? but it's got SOME different parts in it???"

https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[Gir]

Gir, I edited your post and added quote delineation cuz trying to follow who said what in your post was giving me a headache :)


Thanks...i'm a tard when it comes to that kidna stuff.

[stryker204]

im turbo all the way....yes base platform SC vs. base platform TC.....the SC system will be a lot cheeper way to go......but also as GIR has pointed out...ur using crank power to turn the SC.....meaning loss in low end hp and touqure....but turbo is running off of exhaust gasses making it a much better in top end ....also lets not forget the advantage of being able to change the amount of boost from in car rather changing out pullys.....both are good at what they do....but toe to toe....TC will most of the time win....im not dissing SC's because i have lots of friends with SC's on mustangs that are throwing down 500 at the ground.....but....there is a limit to how fast a SC can spin....and as do turbos.....but an SC can only spin as fast as ur crank is spinning.....but turbos have the ability of spinning 130,000 rpm, maby even more......but as GIR has also stated that boost is boost....no matter if it comes from a SC,TC, or a Fart