Turbo post #2

[Dark Anghell]

Ok...I though that maybe we can start over with the post. It seems like in order to install a DOHC on our block, we need new ECU...maybe a new wiring harness, and all the needed components.

Sooo...I can't decide which way to go. Either go through the trouble of turbo'ing 4g64 with 130K miles on it, plus install the DOHC on that engine, and rewire the harness.
<OR>
Install a 4g63t, and once again, rewire the harness. Craig says that the swap could be done in just a couple of days (which is good https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif ). But on the galantspeed one of the guys installed a lancer motor in his galant, and he had to move a couple of the engine mounts.
<Craig did you have to do the same thing? Do you have the wiring diagram that youy can E-mail to me?

If I do go with a 4g63t, which year should I go with? Early 2nd gen elipses had problems with cams...so should I go with a late 1st gen?

[pinoyesv6]

if i were u, i'd find a low mileage 4g63T. i believe the 1g motors have a lil bit more power than the 2g's. you can still use the 4g64 u have now, that will be kool, i recommend building up the internals on that too just for a lil bit more power and since it is a high mileage motor. i'd total up the costs for both, figure out ease of installation and the power outputs that u can get with both setups

[Jesse]

Ahh Pavel, I figured out that you are the one I've been responding to on the yahoo group.

I say do the swap, nobody that has turbed the 4g64 still has the setup now. Either a tranny went, or some other misfortunate accident that wasn't really a result of using the 4g64, but there is more aftermarket support for the 4g63T, more people know more about it, and the only real work is re-wiring and fitting stuff together.

That's if you want a basic 4g63T. of course you're going to want to probably get a better turbo, bigger fuel pump, maybe larger injectors along with apexi s-afc, boost controler, some new gauges, and turbo timer to be safe.

[Jesse]

Also, that link that somebody put in the first Turbo topic, that is a Mitsubishi Turbo Craig, it has the diamond star logo stamped right on it.

[g96nt]

right.. but it's not a DSM turbo

trust me


now.. why would you guys not just use a DOHC head, and your galant distributor With a better coil?


I remember going over this once with you guys

i'll do it again:

97 spyder, and GSX use the same Cam angle Sensor

soo
the spyder CAS fits on the DOHC head

the spyder, and galant use the same head/Cam
and they CAS and distributor Are the same

soo
you can fit your damned distributor on a DOHC head

screw ECU upgrades...

just ignition upgrades.....and Whatever Else


oh yeah...... =0]

[Dark Anghell]

OK...now's the harder part. I was talking about this with my friend, and he said that the pistons are not the same. If I use stock pistons, the valves would be hitting them. He said that's what happened to a couple of guys who were using 4g64 block, and a 4g63 head. They had to fabricate new pistons, which came out to be about 600 bucks.

Plus even though a 4g64 has more potential due to bigger displacement...I don't think that the motor is ready for high boost without doing some internal work (new pistons, rods, etc.). My engine has 130K miles on it (I probably said that 1 million times :x )...and the car is my daily driver, so I don't want anything to happen to the motor due to a turbo install or something like that.

[Kain]

You'd be surprised how incredibly strong the bottom end of the '64 is. I'd not worry about it unless you plan on making over 500 hp. And as far as the DOHC being diffrent than the SOHC in the valve/piston clearance? No, they use the same valves. Besides, at TDC valves should be closed anyway.

[Dark Anghell]

I have no doubt that the bottom end and probably the block is strong. But a lot of people don't push a lot of boost in their 4g64's. My friend can easily boost 18lbs on his 4g63t, and daily he runs 12lbs... I believe. Now take Calvin (turboe'd spyder), Craig correct me if I'm wrong, but Calvin only boosts his car up to 8lbs...and just like someone said previosly on this board I think, that there are a lot more parts available for 4g63, while 4g64 doesn't get much attention. People have done turbo's on their cars, but at the same time they had to do a lot of unexpected repairs either due to install or just the condition of their engine.

My friend got a Mirage that has a custom built turbo on it, and he had it for at least 3 years. The car runs fine...but there was a lot of upgrades done, such as fuel, ignition, etc. Still with all of the mods he's done...the car runs only 8lbs. of boost.

I'm not saying that turboing a 4g64 is a dumb idea, because most of the people who did it are really happy with it. It's just that for my purpose I think that a 4g63t would be more reliable. Also in the long run I might get more power out of it, than I would have with a 4g64. A lot of DSM guys are installing our crancs on 4g63, that bumps up the displacement to 2.3L. :shock:

[Dark Anghell]

Hey I thought I'd share some websites with you.

If you've got 4K to spend on your engine...here's a website: http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/products.htm ('http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/products.htm')
They also have fully built trasmitions (or kits) for 900 bucks!!! :shock:

Here's a guy who did a 4g64 block with a 4g63 head and a turbo in one of the eagle talons: http://www.azgarage.com/dsmsw/4g64/ ('http://www.azgarage.com/dsmsw/4g64/')

[Spyder4G64t]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pavel)</div><div class='quotemain'>I have no doubt that the bottom end and probably the block is strong. But a lot of people don't push a lot of boost in their 4g64's. My friend can easily boost 18lbs on his 4g63t, and daily he runs 12lbs... I believe. Now take Calvin (turboe'd spyder), Craig correct me if I'm wrong, but Calvin only boosts his car up to 8lbs...

My friend got a Mirage that has a custom built turbo on it, and he had it for at least 3 years. The car runs fine...but there was a lot of upgrades done, such as fuel, ignition, etc. Still with all of the mods he's done...the car runs only 8lbs. of boost.
</div>
If you're thinking of the Calvin on the 4G64 group, he does not have a turbo on his car yet. I believe you're talking about me, and my car. If not, sorry. And, BTW, I run 10psi daily.

You seem to be simply placing your thoughts on how much boost you can run. If you want to run more boost, drop your compression down, and run more boost. You have to understand that the existing compression ratio of the car is the biggest factor when deciding on how much boost to run. If you stick with the stock 9.5:1 compression ratio, then you don't need as much boost to make just as much power. The 4G63t's have 8.5:1 CR. Boost is not the end all of power determination, although it definatly is part of the equation.

[sarcasm on]
If you are all worried about reliability, go crawl in a hole and live with your car the way it is right now. If you want more power, then you have to take risks. Once you add a turbo, if it is done *correctly*, then the risks are all about the same. Stop beating your head against the wall about it.
[/sarcasm off]

My only advice is your better understand EVERYTHING about the swap over before you start, or you'll end up with a fried engine. Have you read my turbo install directions for the Spyder? If not do it. When you understand *everything* you read, then you are beginning to be ready to install the turbo on your car.

[Spyder4G64t]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kain)</div><div class='quotemain'>You'd be surprised how incredibly strong the bottom end of the '64 is. I'd not worry about it unless you plan on making over 500 hp. And as far as the DOHC being diffrent than the SOHC in the valve/piston clearance? No, they use the same valves. Besides, at TDC valves should be closed anyway.</div>
Just because the valves are the same, it doesn't mean they are at the same angle with each head. Don't get me wrong. I'm in your camp. I really think they must be close enough. But until I hear somebody has done it without problems, I'm sitting on the "need new pistons" side.

[Dark Anghell]

I found a website, in which the guy was doing a 4g64 block in his Eagle Talon, and the 4g63 head with a turbo. He paid $600 for new custom pistons.

Also on my friend's 4g63 the valves are really close to begin with. When he was installing new cam gears, he turned them a 1/8 of a turn, and bent two of his valves. So I think that it would be really dangerous to do the install without the pistons.

I know that a couple of people have done the head swap without using the custom pistons, but then all the DSM club guys replace the pistons if the do the swap.

[Dark Anghell]

Hey another thing came to my mind. The fuel delivery...which fuel pumps can be used on the 4g63?

I know that nopi sells one, but is it OEM galant part or does it actually deliver more fuel? Or should i go with the eclipse gst pump?

[Da 9th wonder]

rewire stock fuel pump..or get a 3kgtvr4/supra fuel pump
b&m command flo
afc controller


but u will still be slower then me