mitsu's achilles heel

[BlueESV6]

It occurs to me that I've read various posts by people who have dynoed their old/new exhaust, headers, intake, etc... . It seems none of these changes to the engine's systems have posted much HP gains (2-4 hp).

Others who have done major mods like nitrious/ supercharger or turbo have gained signifcantly more power... (obviously)

My question is this... if the "small" mods did not make big HP gains on our cars then what CAN make a big difference? Other manufacturers do have larger gains with things like aftermarket intakes, etc.... (Injen/AEM on acura etc..)

I think one possible reason for the lack of gains from mods is that mitsu's R&D has already gotten the most that the system can deliver. An example is the intake... the tube is about the same diameter as an aftermarket, it just is not as nice looking. But the functionality is already there (as posted by the lack of HP gain).

So what smaller mods will give a decent gain? Where is the mitsu's achilles heel (in the car's engineering) :?:

[Mante]

Good, no damn good question. The only avenue I can think of is trying an custom intake manifold then again thats wishing on stars. Im clueless on what to try next.

[2000GTZ]

has anyone ever port polished their galant?

[DarkLateNight]

got me

[00GTZ00]

The problem with the cars are the cams. That is what is limiting the cars if you replace them you will see much better gains with the CAI and the full exaust. But beause they put in such a crappy cam our cars are limited as to what they can do N/A....

you can also replace drive train componenets to improve efficiency of the tranny. try to get the drive train loss down to around 13-15% (and you will gain some free hp)

[cdaw2001ES]

My take on this is, all the smaller mods that yeild little to no gain to a stock platform, exponetially help get a larger gain from a $$$ boost type mod. Otherwise - Our cars are pretty much like every other mid level ($15-$21K) 4 door in that respect. Your not going to get major gains, unless you do major mods. And even then you still hit a wall - that requires MAJOR $$$ to overcome. Like all the parts a family sedan has that a race car dosnt and viceversa.

Fastses Mitsu I know of is using a (FULLY Built) 4g63 mated to a chevy transmission- Ford rear, on a custom tube frame chassis, with a replica talon body. high 7 1/4's last I heard.

[HeadAche]

I have the same concensous, not really sure what else to do. I did everything possible for the first motor, and i didnt really see any real power until i but the bottle on it. I think mitsu's engineering is just fine, but i think they actually squeezed all the power out of the motor that they could, so basic bolt on-s dont make a huge difference. hence you look at the honda motor and they bolt on a intake and they got 10whp to play with. I dont really think its the cam set-up myself. I think the cam timing is pretty good if not better than what most cars come out stock with. I think Mante bought an aftermarket set and actually got +6whp from them, which is pretty good. I wish the USDM version of our cars had some kinda valve timing like MIVEC, that would kick ass..

[2000GTZ]

i agree. if we had something to combat toyota's VVT-i or hondas VTEC or i-VTEC on our galants, itd be great effect. i wish we were DOHC too.

then again, you can engine swap for a 3kGT VR-4 6G72TT...

it all comes down to $$$

[Jet Black]

Oh I could see it now:

MIVEC+DOHC+stock internals that are as good as the supras+6 spd sequential gearbox+AWD-1000lbs

...Im drooling all over the keyboard.

[TWISTED II]

i dunno, bolt ons like intake and exhaust are not meant to give huge HP gains. nothing you do to your motor unless its forced induction is going to make it have real high HP gains. i have done: bored out the block, rods, pistons, cams, valve springs, cam gears, CAI, headers, exhaust....and i'm prolly gonna be as slow as stock if not slower. those things are to make the motor strong, not to make it fast. cams could give you some gain, but any gain i got from that was lost by the drop in compression. (so any of you I4's wanna race a fully built V6 and win do it now before the TT's, haha) anyway, but yeah, the real power is in the forced induction. and about the port and polish.....i've considered doing it, but the ports on the 6G72 are actually pretty well done. i didn't think it would be needed at the moment.

[00GTZ00]

HeadAche - I am leary about the hondas getting 10 wheel hp from just an intake, you are talking about the 4cyl right? every 4 cyl car that I have seen add an intake has not yealded more that 5 whp on the dyno. Do you have a link to a dyno sheet of this?


I think that our cars could do 300+ flywheel hp reliably all N/A if it is built from the block up as follows:
__________________________________________
Deck the block
balance the crank
forged pistons
bluprinted bearing throughout the block
High compression cams
mill the deck of the heads down to gain more comp.
mulit-angle valve job
swirl polish and back cut valves
valve springs
cams with a bigger lift and more duration
mill the lower intake to realign with the milled heads
gasket match the lower intake (extrude and hone)
gasket match the upperintake to the lower (port and polish)
bigger throttle body
gasket match the upperintake to the bigger TB
CAI
full length headers
high flow cat
true cat back
Fuel presser reg.
________________________________________

If people are serious about getting HP they will open up the engine and start replacing parts.

But ya NO CAI, headers, catback or small mods will change your car into a speed demon!

as far as the small mods that you can do for relitivly cheap
________________________________________
CAI
Headers
Cat-back
Alt pully
fuel pressure reg.
cam gears ( do they even yeald hp? or are they just lighter weight?)
bigger TB
??????
_________________________________________

[yofadahead]

what engine wouldn't?

[Auto-9]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(00GTZ00)</div><div class='quotemain'>HeadAche - I am leary about the hondas getting 10 wheel hp from just an intake, you are talking about the 4cyl right? every 4 cyl car that I have seen add an intake has not yealded more that 5 whp on the dyno. Do you have a link to a dyno sheet of this? Â*
</div>

I used to have one. I saw an AEM review by an independent party done on a RSX-S that yielded 7whp average with a best run of 11 whp. I think you're right...our cams suck, and I believe Rippmods touched on the engine block itself though I forget the post.

[00GTZ00]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yofadahead)</div><div class='quotemain'>what engine wouldn't?</div>

a 4 cyl

those mods on a 4 cyl would get you to about 240-250 crank hp

on a v6 300-320 crank hp

on a v8 400+

all est based on "newer" engines.

But this is just my opnion based on my personal experiance. take it as you will...

[Stewi]

Our Motor isnt the best setup but more importantly, our tranny is weak. Think about it our auto tranny loses like 35hp between the crank and the wheels. Im sure if any of you guys ask shane, he has the 5 speed in his car and its a huge difference. I am going to attempt the swap myself in the next few months, along with my DOHC head swap. If your looking to get big gains from intake, exhaust,etc. You gotta setup the motor right. You gotta pick either forced induction or normally aspirated. If your going N/A get some high compression pistons, a cam, underdrivce pulleys, cam gear, and some electronics to advance the ignition timing. You need to make the parts work together to get their full potential. You can have all the mods in the world and still be running the stock ECU timing and your motor will run terrible. There are alot of factors that effect your cars HP and speed. For example, if oyur taking your G out to race somebody, why dont you spend an extra 20 mins and take that HUGE subwoofer box out of your trunk first, should save you a couple hundred pounds. In my opinion the best way to get power from our cars is forced induction, but I can definetly see a N/A galant getting up about 260whp. It's definetly do-able if you do it right.

[HeadAche]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(00GTZ00)</div><div class='quotemain'>HeadAche - I am leary about the hondas getting 10 wheel hp from just an intake, you are talking about the 4cyl right? every 4 cyl car that I have seen add an intake has not yealded more that 5 whp on the dyno. Do you have a link to a dyno sheet of this? Â*


I think that our cars could do 300+ flywheel hp reliably all N/A if it is built from the block up as follows:
__________________________________________
Deck the block
balance the crank
forged pistons
bluprinted bearing throughout the block
High compression cams
mill the deck of the heads down to gain more comp.
mulit-angle valve job
swirl polish and back cut valves
valve springs
cams with a bigger lift and more duration
mill the lower intake to realign with the milled heads
gasket match the lower intake (extrude and hone)
gasket match the upperintake to the lower (port and polish)
bigger throttle body
gasket match the upperintake to the bigger TB
CAI
full length headers
high flow cat
true cat back
Fuel presser reg.
________________________________________

If people are serious about getting HP they will open up the engine and start replacing parts. Â*

But ya NO CAI, headers, catback or small mods will change your car into a speed demon!

as far as the small mods that you can do for relitivly cheap
________________________________________
CAI
Headers
Cat-back
Alt pully
fuel pressure reg.
cam gears ( do they even yeald hp? or are they just lighter weight?)
bigger TB
??????
_________________________________________</div>

I saw it in an old issue of Super Street, it was done on a S2000 and then in Honda Tunning on a RSX-s.. If i can find the old issue i will post it..

[00GTZ00]

I guess that the Honda/Acura guys really do have crappy intakes..go figure...

[Strahan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ThaTwistedGTZ)</div><div class='quotemain'>i dunno, bolt ons like intake and exhaust are not meant to give huge HP gains. Â*nothing you do to your motor unless its forced induction is going to make it have real high HP gains.</div>

I hope you mean just in relation to our engines, cuz I know many people with old musclecars that have tons of power and are N/A https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[00GTZ00]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Strahan)</div><div class='quotemain'>I hope you mean just in relation to our engines, cuz I know many people with old musclecars that have tons of power and are N/A https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif</div>

ya but what size engine do they have? 6.0L 5.7L 6.5? all v8's are moving 2X as much air as our cars that is why they see ~2X better results with bolt ons than we do....

[TWISTED II]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Strahan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ThaTwistedGTZ)</div><div class='quotemain'>i dunno, bolt ons like intake and exhaust are not meant to give huge HP gains. Â*nothing you do to your motor unless its forced induction is going to make it have real high HP gains.</div>

I hope you mean just in relation to our engines, cuz I know many people with old musclecars that have tons of power and are N/A https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif</div>

umm..."TheGalantCenter" giving information out on galants.....

stewi: how do you come to the conclusion our motor isn't the best setup? just curious.

[Mante]

headache/kemist: I only had (AEM) Cam Gears after it was dyno tuned it did yeild a gain of 6whp and almost 15-20 torque. thats in addition to all the other addons (alot)

As for the post about PnP the intake/head etc There was a plan for a GB maybe 2 months ago here in Maryland one of the Stratus guys took lead on that project. Turns out it turned it gained only 2whp for 350 not much of a increase for the dollar.

As twisted and headache stated nothing bolt on will be seriously significant sorry just not going to happen. The best bet for both platforms i.e i4 and v6 is to do the bolt ons then try to free up as much hp that the motor already makes...pulleys, crank pulley (rumored dangerous), Cams ( stage 2 or 3), CAm gears (dyno tyned ONLY) aS FoR thE exhaust and intake dont bother just makes your car sound faster lol

00GTZ00: Headache didnt mean they literally got 10 whp by adding a intake

Side note Im so damn glad to see nobody mentioned headers as a great modification I would have went nuttz

Anyone want to do something that will add top end setup a RAmAir setup, you will thank me!

[Elwenil]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mante)</div><div class='quotemain'>As for the post about PnP the intake/head etc Â*There was a plan for a GB maybe 2 months ago here in Maryland one of the Stratus guys took lead on that project. Â*Turns out it turned it gained only Â*2whp for 350 not much of a increase for the dollar.</div>

Here's a thought. How much time did they put into the port and polish? If they did just a general gasket matching and cleaning up to unshroud the valves then they may not have gotten all the gains possible. I know that for someone to port a head and see real improvement they need to have intimate knowledge about that particular head. Without a lot of time, a lot of junk heads, and a flow bench you may not see much out of it. I know if I take a set of my 906 big block Mopar heads to a machinist that only does mostly Chevy engines that I won't get much for my money, because he will do what works on a GM head, to my Mopar head. Also, someone who is really good with my 906's might not be worth crap when it comes to my small block Mopar Magnum heads. Time and a flow bench are the only way to get noticeable gains, and even then it may simply come down to the fact that Mitsubishi has gotten most of the power available out of the head without incurring major machine time that slows down production and drives up the cost. Think of a flow benching your head the same as dyno tuning your whole engine.
I haven't touched my engine yet, but I thought I'd do the usual mods (CAI, header, wires, etc.) just for show, rather than the HP gains. Being at a show and looking at a stock engine just isn't that interesting. Later on I'm really concidering this swap to the turbo and head off a 2g Eclipse, because they seem to get a lot of power out of that set up. But I need to learn a lot more about my ECU and the turbo deal before I touch it. Maybe by the time my warranty is out. :wink: In my opinion, just out of the box, the 5 speed swap seems to be the best for getting any "seat of the pants" feel. I think the 5 speed would make better use of the power our engines make, and not lose so much to friction and the torque converter. Which brings me to another point, does anyone make performance torque converters for our trannys? I know a shift kit would be a bit much, but wouldn't it be kewl to bark second with an auto in your g? https://www.thegalantcenter.org/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Just a few thoughts...
Later...