4G64 SDS Finally Dyno'd w/Less-than-satisfying numbers...

Before I roll in to it, I'll pre-empt this all by saying I am not wholey satified with the numbers my setup put down. In themselves the numbers are good, but not at the level the Ripp SDS Kit (1.0) was advertised to be.

With that said, this is my ride:
2001 Mitsubishi Galant
4G64 I4 (2.4L) SOHC
Auto Transmission
Stock Rated HP: 145 Crank HP (est. 107-109 WHP)
Stock Rated TQ: 155

And the mods I have (that matter here):
Ripp 4G64 1st Gen. SDS Kit consiting of:
* Walboro 255 Fuel Pump
* Malpassi FPR - set at 52-54 psi
* Vortech V5 G-Trim Centrifiugal Supercharger
* 5th Injector - mounted in intake, on at boost
* 2 Bar MAP Sensor
* Standard Crank Pulley (5-6 psi of boost)
* RIPP Black Box - piggy-back adaptive computer
Ripp Headers
Ripp mid-pipe w/high-flow cat
(note: stock piping from mid-pipe to muffler)
Brospeed straight-thru muffler

Without going into great detail on runs done, the final run of the car provided the best numbers at 170 WHP (est. 210-220 HP at the crank?) and 165 TQ. As I said, I had hoped for more - should have hit around 185 WHP, and definitely higher on TQ. All-in-all, I'm content - but not eccstatic - with a 63WHP/59% gain over stock - especially considering the excessive loss inherrent in the Mistsu auto transmission.

But still, either Ripps Dyno's were somehow inflated or I'm missing something on my setup. We had questions after initial numbers regarding setup parameters and such so I got Ripp ont he phone to verify a few things. I ended up having the shop boss talk directly with Ross to make sure we weren't missing anything. As it turns out, all was just as it should be, except we were not hitting the numbers Ripp has previosly given. The shop boss thought it was somewhat suspicious that Ross said the belt has a tendancy to slip and to apply some belt-dressing for better numbers. WTF??? I didn't know that was a "feature" of the kit.

Also in question were the A/F numbers. Up to around 4500 RPM we were at 12.5 but then the car gradually leaned out until we were at 13.8 at 6200 RPM. Arguably, this is a very lean condition - but according to Ross, the 4G64 "like" the mix that lean, produce better numbers at that mix, and are in no danger from running so lean. I'm still wary.

I'll continue to work with this setup for now and see if more power can be had - there's gotta be something holding back. But before too long, maybe by spring, I am going to look at upgrading tothe 1.5 or 2.0 SDS which adds 440cc injectors, a larger crank pulley for 10-11 psi of boost, a Water-Meth cooler, and an electronic boost controller. Numbers for this setup on an ES Auto 4G64 posted on Ripp's site show 268.7 WHP... but given my experience with the 1.0, maybe I'll see 240 WHP?

Anyone with the SDS - or turbo'd for that matter - that can think of where I might look to reclaim those extra 5-10-15 HP I should be seeing, let me know!

J

How long have you had the SDS installed? You had the same effect I did, the first dynos I did were not where I thought they should be. I think once the AFR learned the fuel curve, the HP numbers were very solid. But you are running the black box and I am not sure how that works, I am using the HKS AFR.

I get my galant back on monday after upgrading the pulley and putting in the meth injector into my new engine.

Wtf 185?? Im amazed you were able to keep yourself together to type the post! Ballistic would be my middle name right now.

did Ross or whomever at ripp mention anything about the black box, since I have never seen or used it Im clueless on what to make of it. Is it possible to get another one just to make sure its nothing electronic screwin up? Like Matt you may also want to get an AFR *HKS blah lol*

If ripp can not justify your dyno numbers would you really be willing to send them anymore money? When I think of your situation this comes to mind

"fooled me once, shame on you. Fooled me twice, shame on me. ."

Alot of people have recieved great #'s from the ripp setup so theres something going on with your package, they have to offer cross-shipping of parts its a must!

Yah, I've put probably 700-800 miles on the setup, so I don't think the learning time is still an issue. Could be. I just don't think it is.

By the time we finsihed with the runs it was after hours East coast time so I couldn't call Ripp right away. Which is probably good b/c I needed to count to 10 and think about things before giving them a holler. It's on my list for Monday, though.

You're right on most of your points, Mante. But as far as giving them more money... if I can't find the problem with Ripp's help and want to see higher numbers, I have to go through them - since I started down the road with their kit, I'm not likely to find a 3rd part that offers a crank pulley, software upgrade or other goodies that goes with the 1.0 kit. And I'm not prepared to scrap the Ripp SDS ( and time and money invested) to go antoher route.

Also - keep in mind this is the original kit that was rated by Ripp at "188.1WHP ES Galant Automatic at only 5psi". So while I appear to be off by 18 WHP, I still have some good gains over the stock 104 WHP.

J

VegasMatt - can you share some of your numbers? I'm most curious to see the difference between the 1st dyno you mention and any subsequent ones on the same setup. Thanks!

J

Ok - sorry for 3 posts in a row - but I wanted to add I just found Ripps original post about the 1st Galant dyno and they stated:

"When we were done we laid down 179.3whp and 178.7lbs or torque (224.1 crank HP). This makes for a very strong accelerating car. We had base lined this car before the SDS and found only 103.3WHP"

And another 4G64 eclipse owner (phase24?) posts:

"I went to the dyno and at 5 psi 176 whp and 172 lbs of torque"

J

to really get an accurate comparison, you need to have run your car on the same dyno, under the same conditions as the test car. stuff like temp, humidity, altitude all make a difference. and, you needed to get a base run BEFORE the installation. every car is different, and every tuner is different. i would even bet that the original cars dynoed had different tuning equipment(no "black box"), so possibly much finer tuning could be obtained, and, they may have made a lot more runs, dailing it in better. i would also think that for them to program the absolute cutting edge into this "black box" would be foolish, because people cant get the exact same ingredients, for example, i know people who are too cheap to run premium fuel in a vr4. octane numbers, and fuel quality differ, too. for instance, calif vr4 owners have to run 660 injectors where others are fine with 550's, because fuel quality/octane is not the same. if you are only running 5 lbs boost, the results are very good. i would be ecstatic if i increased boost 5 lbs and got more than 50 hp/tq. lastly, think about your transmission/drivetrain. another 10-15 hp and you might start breaking stuff. btw, i have nothing to to with ripp, i have a turbcharged car.

Blankman: I wouldnt recommend scrapin a major project like that, only say if you recieved 140whp and 150lb/torque lol now that would cause my blood pressure to sky rocket. I know how I am, if something doesnt work properly Im known to take it all out and start fresh...again and again and again!

After its all said in done its a major improvement over the 99-105 whp of a stock I4! Ask yourself...honestly does anything you pay for REALLY live up to what you expected?? Hell no!

edit:

Alot of people know my views of s/c but hey if something can show improvements it gets my respect!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mante

Blankman: I wouldnt recommend scrapin a major project like that, only say if you recieved 140whp and 150lb/torque...

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Um - I think you mis-read my first post. My setup is at 170 WHP and 165 TQ. I think that would put the crank around 215 HP. So, not as bad of as you might have thought. Still, I want that 188 WHP! https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/smile.gif

Ken - I'm with you dude. I was half tempted to disable the SC, slap on a short ram and cone filter and see what that would net. It still wouldn't have been stock with the Walboro 255 and FPR still on, but could have given me a comparison. At any rate, time ran late and I didn't get a chance to do that - but I plan on it next time.

Also, the thing is, you're really limited in tuning with the Black Box. There are no tweaks to do. It's all self contained. At the most, you could adjust fuel pressure if there is a flat spot across the band or adjust your idle. Everything else is monitored and run by the BB - fuel map, timing (advanced 6 deg. under boost), fuel delivery, everything.

I hear Ripp has a more agressive software running on the newer BB's. I think that's gonna be one of my first questions when I call tomorrow.

J

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlankMan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mante)</div><div class='quotemain'>Blankman: Â*I wouldnt recommend scrapin a major project like that, only say if you recieved 140whp and 150lb/torque...</div>

Um - I think you mis-read my first post. My setup is at 170 WHP and 165 TQ. I think that would put the crank around 215 HP. So, not as bad of as you might have thought. Still, I want that 188 WHP! https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/smile.gif

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no bro he was just sayin that IF u had only gained 40whp (140whp) and 50lb-ft/torque (250lb/ft) then he'd be pissed....but with yer numbers therr very respectable....good luck with the set up..im sure more power will be made...even a few hp may be gaineed in the cat back ( i kno everyone says our exhaust is already freeflowing but ya never kno...like ken said ..every car is diff)

OOps, my bad 8g, I misread that post.

J

well since you have stock piping from the header to the cat and from the cat to the muffler it restricts it alot if i were you i would run a full 3inch headerback exhuast and free up some air flow maybe thats where you can push out that extra horsepower and get your setup fine tunned if you already havent it will also give you more hp since you have a S/C just my 2 cents. :wink: good luck with your project.

My car dyno'd at 109WHP stock and that is a 5-speed. So, the auto has got to be making less power then that. Numbers are still a little low, but there are many other factors that can attribute to that. All in all, I think you ended up gaining a bit more HP then you believe if you change that original 109WHP number. On a side note, upgrade your pulleys and gain some more hp...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the boosted gs

My car dyno'd at 109WHP stock and that is a 5-speed. So, the auto has got to be making less power then that. Numbers are still a little low, but there are many other factors that can attribute to that. All in all, I think you ended up gaining a bit more HP then you believe if you change that original 109WHP number. On a side note, upgrade your pulleys and gain some more hp...

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My auto dynoed at 109 whp with headers. If eveything is hooked up right then I would almost say it's the black box and stock muffler that's holding up the hp. With a 75 shot I dynoed at 177 whp & 224 lbs of tq. I think your tq should be higher than what you posted.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by b-boy_sky

My auto dynoed at 109 whp with headers. If eveything is hooked up right then I would almost say it's the black box and stock muffler that's holding up the hp. With a 75 shot I dynoed at 177 whp & 224 lbs of tq. I think your tq should be higher than what you posted.....

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As posted above, I don't have a stock muffler - currently installed is the Bosal straight through. Though I do agree the TQ numbers should be higher - but I htink your 224 was off the scale! https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif Stock TQ is 155 at the crank so if the tranny causes the same loss as with HP (?), looking at 118TQ or so to the wheels so my gain was around 47 lbs. only...

The BB may not be at direct fault - but it does limit tuning that can be done to the car. This is good in a way b/c it defintely keeps things within safe parameters - but bad b/c you can't tweak the A/F, etc. at specific RPM levels...

J

I say dyno tune it with a safc...

I dont think I trust that BB too much

I've considered that. But unless I find someone willing to loan me one to prove better gains, I don't anticipate buying one outright.

You wanna loan me yours? https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/smile.gif

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlankMan

The BB may not be at direct fault - but it does limit tuning that can be done to the car. This is good in a way b/c it defintely keeps things within safe parameters

J

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I agree with you there. If you have an AFC you have a tendency to play with some of the settings and/or whoever tunes it needs to know what they're doing. I still wouldnt scrap this project because if you look at the reliability of the blower and if you drop the stage two upgrade :shock: .....I think anyone would be happy with those numbers....

well i got a few questions, 1) how did the overall band act, did you get instant numbers from 2000rpms or what? 2) What system is that piggy back computer doing and what specs is it set for. 3) Also did you change any internals of your block for the supercharger.

The thing with superchargers is that they don't offer lots of HP or TQ they just offer it then and now. Chargers are belt driven and therefore you get an instant response. Your powerband was probably lower by a few thousans rpms. You said you got 165TQ, but where on the band did you get it? If you got that around 2-3K rpms thats damn good. Also you HP you said was 178 or so and if you got that around 3-5K rpm thats great. Turbos offer more HP and potential for HP/TQ but take time to spool up. Also does that piggy system change alot of the limitations on the ECU like RPM max, governor, and ratios. You might want to find something that can change them and also invest in cams and some internals to further help it. Also make sure the engine is nice and cold. Either get a supercharger intercooler system or get the JDm grilles wih the huge openings to let cold air in. but your figures are pretty good if they get it a couple thousand rpms lower than stock.