how i can block th erg and the vaccum lines what i do with that?
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how i can block th erg and the vaccum lines what i do with that?
why would you want to?
youre going to actually CAUSE drivability issues doing something like that.
besides, anytime you go to WOT, the EGR is shut off automatically.
This is something I did myself. Your EGR valve is there for emissions purposes only. It takes left over oxides from your exhaust and recirculates them through your intake manifold during mild throttle conditions. By blocking this, you lower intake manifold temps. But if you have a performance exhaust system, blocking your EGR system is pointless because all of the exhaust is expelled anyway. If you still want to block it (I have left it blocked) you can get a machined EGR block plate from many places (Ebay) that you replace your EGR valve with (I found one on a '92 Talon in a junk yard), or you can cut sheet metal to put in between your EGR valve and intake manifold. Those vacuum lines simply "tell" the EGR valve when to open and when not to, and if the valve is blocked, you don't have to worry about those lines any more.
you actually increase combustion temperature by eliminating EGR. its main purpose is to decrease oxides of nitrogen, which are formed from excessive combustion temperature.Quote:
Originally Posted by theguy526
the inert exhaust gas entering the cylinder has multiple effects on combustion, but the most important outcome is a decrease in combustion temp.
no, its not.Quote:
But if you have a performance exhaust system, blocking your EGR system is pointless because all of the exhaust is expelled anyway.
youre missing one important thing.. under WOT conditions, the EGR is shut off anyway.Quote:
If you still want to block it (I have left it blocked) you can get a machined EGR block plate from many places (Ebay) that you replace your EGR valve with (I found one on a '92 Talon in a junk yard), or you can cut sheet metal to put in between your EGR valve and intake manifold. Those vacuum lines simply "tell" the EGR valve when to open and when not to, and if the valve is blocked, you don't have to worry about those lines any more.
disabling it will do NOTHING on a factory tuned car but increase emissions, decrease milage, and possibly cause ping under normal cruising conditions.
If temps are increased, as you say (which they aren't), then it would cause detonation in the cylinder, not pinging. Pinging is cause when cylinder temps are too low due to low octane fuel, or ignition timing that is retarded to far. When I blocked mine, mileage didn't go down, it went up actually, but maybe I just now how to tune an engine.
just wondering if you knew that Manybrews is a mitsubishi service specialist and if he says it will cause problems then it most likely will....
Quote:
Originally Posted by theguy526
WHAT??
are you daft? that is EXACTLY the opposite of how pinging occurs. Detonation will occur whenever there is too much heat, a random heat source causing it, or excessively ADVANCED timing. Lower octane fuel is easier to ignite at a lower temp, hence its uselessness in high compression situations.
also, pinging and detonation are primarily the same. However, depending on your definition, pinging is usually from excessive combustion temp / low quality gas / lean conditions, whereas detonation is usually caused by an object in the cylinder, such as a plug that is concentrating the heat on a specific source.
trust me, EGR LOWERS combustion temperature with the SPECIFIC job of eliminating oxides of nitrogen. EGR does NOT raise combustion temperature.
since there is nothing at all to tune on these engines except timing, I kinda doubt that.Quote:
When I blocked mine, mileage didn't go down, it went up actually, but maybe I just now how to tune an engine.
When you eliminated EGR, the formerly unused space in the combustion chamber (lets just use 20 percent inert for this equation) is now totally used as a catalyst. meaning you will now need 20 percent more fuel to fire it all off.
That is why your milage will DECREASE upon regular driving. theoretically, youre actually decreasing the used displacement of the engine by using an EGR valve.
trust me, I know about this. Ive probably forgotten more about the emission systems on todays cars than you know.
but.. dont believe me?
read the PDF right from DELPHI.
http://home.mn.rr.com/hartsstuff/egr.JPG
WAIT! heres another one from toyota.
http://home.mn.rr.com/hartsstuff/egr2.JPG
seriously, unless youre racing, disabling the EGR is plain old dumb these days. the cars are CALIBRATED to run with them, and removing them will gain you absolutly nothing.
hey manybrews, off topic here but did mitsu send you to school or what education did you go through to be a serv spec?Quote:
Originally Posted by Potr
i spent two years at "dunwoody college of technology".Quote:
Originally Posted by ConceptSleeper
and mitsu sends me to continous school about two to four times a year for training on their products specifically
Thank you manybrews for confirming what I typed. Maybe before you start arguing and completely forget that giving all valid info to a question is what this forum is here for, no saying "I think this is better", you could maybe actually read what I type, because that last post pretty much quoted every thing I said.
And if there is nothing to tune but timing, then how can you change oil pump flow to the cylinders? How about fuel injector hold time and peak out put for larger injectors? How about air/fuel ratio? Sorry if I do my home work and am not a service specialist, but I have taken many an engine apart and rebuilt it, and do lots of homwork before I open my mouth.
hmmm.. lets see here.Quote:
Originally Posted by theguy526
heres what you typed.
"By blocking this, you lower intake manifold temps."
so you said that ELIMINATING EGR lowers temps. I said it does exactly the opposite and gave proof. USING egr lowers combustion temperatures.
heres other things you said.
"If temps are increased, as you say (which they aren't), then it would cause detonation in the cylinder, not pinging.'
yep, i DID say ELIMINATING egr increases temps. and the removal of the egr DOES cause pinging, which i also said. youre implying that having egr causes pinging, which is does not.
you then said this.
"Pinging is cause when cylinder temps are too low due to low octane fuel, or ignition timing that is retarded to far."
this is, in fact, the exact OPPOSITE of what I have said, what I have posted, and what actually happens. pinging does NOT occur when temps drop, nor when ignition is retarded.
so what youve posted is totally the opposite of what happens when you ELIMINATE egr.
this is not "tuning". you cant change oil flow without machining, nor can you change pressure without a higher volumn oil pump.Quote:
Originally Posted by theguy526
Max pressure is adjustable via a different relief spring, but thats max pressure.. it has no effect nor bearing on normal operating pressures.
"tuning" is something that is easy to do and doesnt require any type of engine teardown.
obviously, our definitions must vary as far as "tuning" goes.
this cant be "tuned" without the proper equipment. for 99.9 percent of the people on the planet, the ONLY thing they could adjust on a stock 89 to 93 galant is ignition timing. this also falls out of what I would consider "tuning", but it IS closer to my definition.Quote:
How about fuel injector hold time and peak out put for larger injectors? How about air/fuel ratio?
perhaps. but Im afraid in this case, you are wrong. eliminating egr has adverse effects on todays cars, and is totally pointless. As ive said many times now, egr is NOT FUNCTIONING at WOT anyway, which is the only time youre going to need max combustion pressure unless youre racing.Quote:
Sorry if I do my home work and am not a service specialist, but I have taken many an engine apart and rebuilt it, and do lots of homwork before I open my mouth.
Also, eliminating or bypassing egr on any OBD2 car will also cause a "check engine" light to illuminate. obviously, these generation galants arent OBD2 compliant, so it isnt monitored (unless its a california car, as they were monitored).
What does WOT stand for ? I see it mentioned alot, but I cant for the life of me figure it out :?
W=wide
O=open
T=throttle
also,
W=wide
F=f*****g
O=open
balls to the wall, pedal to the metal, hauling ass, you get the picture.
Hmm Many... - That was a lection :wink:
I guess this is the last thing to put here, but being a service specialist, I kinda figured you would know the difference between the intake manifold, and the area of combustion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theguy526)</div><div class='quotemain'>I guess this is the last thing to put here, but being a service specialist, I kinda figured you would know the difference between the intake manifold, and the area of combustion.</div>
you actually think that the EGR heats the manifold to any degree past what the engine already does?
even if it did (which is doesnt, rest assured), it would be in such a completely small amount that it wouldnt even register.
regardless, even if the intake manifold DID get noticably heated, it wouldnt matter. the combustion temperature would STILL be off the scale from the elimination of the egr.
These are NOT positively pressurized engines. intake temp is not going to be much higher than ambient air temp no matter how hot the intake manifold is, period.
the intake manifold, being made of aluminum, will reach normal operating temps of about 200 degrees. the added temp from the egr passage is easily eliminated by the aluminum manifold, and will have no bearing on anything. besides, the air rushes through the manifold so fast, that it will not have time to absorb any of the heat energy.
99 percent of the heat energy that is concentrated on the intake manifold will be given up to the ambient air around the outside of it, not the air rushing through it.
seriously dude, leave the egr system alone.
the erg can be cleaned?