3.8L MIVEC Swap - Not for the faint of heart!

I've got this posted on multiple forums so it's going to be hard to keep everything up to date. I'm also cut and pasting from previous posts so don't mind if it's disjointed.

Something got delivered today.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0643.JPG

:)

I'm going to discuss some of my findings and why this swap would be a major pain in the ass.

First, some pics of the engine. I'm really happy w/ how this engine was pulled. Harnesses are intact and I got most of the accessories, even the cats! Motor is CLEAN.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0638.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0639.JPG

Notice the motor mount bracket doesn't have provisions for our type of alternator.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0640.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0641.JPG

Note the clutch is a push style, not a pull style like the 3G.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0644.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0647.JPG

New type of flywheel bolt.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0648.JPG

Flywheel is like nothing I've ever seen. The flywheel itself acts like a sprung hub. The friction surface can actually rotate from the part that bolts to the crank.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0651.JPG

What do you see there? The 4G uses a returnless fuel system.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/injector.JPG

305cc injectors.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0659.JPG

Nice rear harness.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0660.JPG

Stock 3G heads.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0661.JPG

4G heads.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0662.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0664.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0665.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0666.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0667.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0668.JPG

Head differences.

Lower intake manifolds are not swappable due to port differences. Hell the 75 lower intake manifold DWARFS the 74 and it dwarfs the 72. It's a good inch longer in width from runner 1 to 6. This also means you can't swap on any 72 or 74 intake manifold.

The MIVEC version of the 75 is an entirely new beast. The block is not the same casting and neither are the heads. All hardware has been upgraded in every sense, even down to the bolts and washers used.

Problems? They are many. First and foremost is the fact that anyone running a stock computer CANNOT drive the ignition system. Even if you jerry rigged wiring to the cam, the computer wouldn't recognize the trigger pattern of the cam sensor as it's radically different in output signal. Crank sensor is identical.

Next up is the fact that there is no provision for the through bolt of the alternator. You would have to use a 4G alternator as well or come up w/ an ingenious solution as I already have to use the 3G alternator instead. Hint, it's all about the right parts combination from 3 different engines. ;)

Now lets tackle the drive by wire system. There is ZERO provision for a throttle cable on this manifold. The TB is dbw afterall. Swapping over to a different throttle body is possible but you must fabricate a way to use your throttle cable and from the looks of it, it's going to be one tight ass fit.

I have a feeling a 3G flywheel might not fit. The crank is definitely machined differently than a 3G crank. Will test later.

Fuel system is returnless. You would think that you could swap on a different fuel rail. Nope, they took that away too. The angle of the arms that the rail is bolted to is about 40 degrees off. The stock rail for the 75 is a non returnless system. So your options are to modify the rail to make it a return system or convert your fuel system to a returnless system. Or, there's a 3rd way I came up with. It involves machining but will allow me to retain my current fuel setup on my car.

Next, you need an exhaust system. I'm going to build a set of headers for myself. Most people can't do that. Maybe RPW's might fit. I actually think they might.

Your biggest problem is still a computer. I don't have that. I have a stand alone. I can even drive MIVEC. I'm ditching the DBW even if I have to seriously modify the intake manifold so that I can use a throttle cable PROPERLY w/ the setup. Oh yeah, wiring would be a bitch too. You have to run new wires from the ECU to connectors on the engine. Good thing I'm pretty good at that. ;)

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0754.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0755.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0756.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0757.JPG

Completed downpipe. I like. It's sexay.

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0758.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0759.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0760.JPG

http://ucsperformance.com/album/6G75/IMG_0761.JPG

The hell I'm dealing w/ now. I've got it mostly figured out but I'm not going to have a tach signal to my cluster. Good thing the AEM has a nice dashboard display I'll be running on a netbook in the center console!

Wow! You've got work cutout for you. GL, hope you're able to complete it. That'll be one hell of a sleeper! LOL!

Damn, thats all I can say. Nice work and good luck to you.

Well done so far! :)

you'll love that motor...the 6g75 MIVEC has some balls with a sweet powerband. Even the non MIVEC 6g75 is just as sweet!

Looks like a "fun" swap

Im vary impressed with the work you have done....alot of work man, and can be tricky, I wish you luck and hope things work out for you.

Its good to see somebody else going bigger and better....especially given the circumstances surrounding such an engine build. I have been waiting to see something like this that is actually "worthy" of an engine swap.

wasted on a chrysler.

Keep us posted! Looks like a cool project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DOHCstunr

wasted on a chrysler.

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Are you dense? It might have a Dodge emblem but it's Mitsu 100%!

Honestly, it's the prettiest car out of anything put out by Mitsu in that era so F off... :lol:

If anything, putting this in a 4 door grocery getter like the galant would be a waste! haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pharmecis

are you dense? It might have a dodge emblem but it's mitsu 100%!

Honestly, it's the prettiest car out of anything put out by mitsu in that era so f off... :lol:

If anything, putting this in a 4 door grocery getter like the galant would be a waste! Haha

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pwnd

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PharmEcis

Are you dense? It might have a Dodge emblem but it's Mitsu 100%!

Honestly, it's the prettiest car out of anything put out by Mitsu in that era so F off... :lol:

If anything, putting this in a 4 door grocery getter like the galant would be a waste! haha

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Comments like that wont get you respect, especially talking to a MOD like that. Thats an easy way to get Banned. And your dissing a Commnuity FULL of "4 door grocery getters"? Not too bright. And I beg to differ on the "prettiest car out of anything put out by Mitsu in that era", but to each his own.

If you're gonna post here have some respect, and keep it cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PharmEcis

Honestly, it's the prettiest car out of anything put out by Mitsu in that era so F off... :lol:

If anything, putting this in a 4 door grocery getter like the galant would be a waste! haha

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Yea, Mitsu really hasn't done anything "new" for vehicles with some style. The 2g eclipse was nice style, but they totally killed it with the new body style. They certainly could have done somethign for the 3000GT platform if they wanted to.

2dr vehicles have always had the "sporty" look and performance to them, most people on the road expect that now days...but when you pull up to a 4dr with the performance people are just like ":shocked2:" ...thats priceless.


Either way definitely keep us all in the loop of the swap and all the wiring stuff!

Just giving you a hard time PharmEcis. Glad you are providing all these pics. I've been wanting somone to attempt this swap for a looooooong time.


Back on topic.

You guys need to relax. I give just as much as I get. I don't take offense, I hope you don't either. Verbal sparring is all in good fun.

I agree w/ spd_frk... That's why I love my car so much. It retained the lines of the 2G DSM. A nice sweeping rounded hood, curvy sexy lines without the ugliness that the 3G was compared to the 2G. When I bought my Strat there was a short list of cars I was interested in. The 3G turned me off because of it's new body style. Little did I know when I bought my Dodge, I was actually buying a 3G! :lol:

The best part is that DCM changed the name from Avenger to Stratus Coupe. Now everyone thinks that because it's a Stratus it's slow. I love fixing that misconception!

If its all in good fun, then Im all for it; no offense taken.

Back on topic, What tranny are you mating to this motor?

It's already mated. F5M51, the stock 5 spd trans out of a 3G.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PharmEcis

It's already mated. F5M51, the stock 5 spd trans out of a 3G.

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hehehehe....this just gets better and better. Doing this kind of swap doesn't bother me so much with all the wiring. I have done 3-4 L67 (S/C 3.8 Pontiac motors) into the pre 1996 Grand Prix, and swapped it into my 1996 which was easy since it was already OBDII.

This is gooooooooooooooooooooood!

This swap will not be possible for a stock computer car. Stand alone only at this point. The stock computer just can't drive the ignition system or MIVEC. In order to use this in a stock computer car, I'd have to build an interface module. I have already have a few ideas about how to tackle that issue. Did I mention I build logic boards too? :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PharmEcis

This swap will not be possible for a stock computer car. Stand alone only at this point. The stock computer just can't drive the ignition system or MIVEC. In order to use this in a stock computer car, I'd have to build an interface module. I have already have a few ideas about how to tackle that issue. Did I mention I build logic boards too? :lol:

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I know from the L67 Swap stuff we took the entire harness and ECU when doing the swap. Now, whether we wanted to do a stand alone or not, are you able to take the harness and ECU from the MIVEC donor car to use?

You would need a lot. The 4G is CAN based. Ours is obviosly OBD-II. Could you do it? Sure but then you lose tunability as the you would need a piggyback to tune the stock 4G computer.