First thing I think of is boost leak or fuel pressure regulator. What is your base fuel pressure?
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First thing I think of is boost leak or fuel pressure regulator. What is your base fuel pressure?
I'll do that as well, boost leak test.
Base fuel pressure is 40psi with vac line disco'd. Regulator is good, manually checked it by porting 30psi into it, it gives me 70psi of fuel pressure at 30lbs of boost
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im pretty sure evos run on 43.5psi of fuel pressure and the IAT as a part of speed density, determines the AFRs.
Is your ROM set for a 5 bar sensor? IDK how the evo ecu determines that, because in DSM ecu I can choose from 3,4 and 5 bar sensors. Each one of them will have different voltage output
yeah I meant to say 43.5 psi lol, and yes the rom is setup to use the 5 bar, he tried it on another dudes car, and it works great. I'm going lean up top with load, and I have a massive fuel system..... wtf...
From what I've read, boost leaks don't have a big effect on speed density cars. Have you checked the fuel pumps or circuitry under load lately?
Pumps are hardwired in. I'm beginning to think my full blown unit sucks dick. Just because I have pressure on the fuel system doesn't mean that I have volume that I need. Hmmm
In most cases if there's consistent pressure there will be volume too. Any way you can monitor fuel pressure while you drive? If it drops out then you have to look into the fuel system - kinked lines, wiring, faulty pumps ....
You said the pumps are hardwired, hardwired how and to what?
What size do you use for the feed and return lines?
Relay is triggered and the pumps get volts from battery. 10 an feed 8 an return 2000cc injectors 2 dw 320lph pumps...
Lines are not kinked
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Sometimes those dw pumps just fail hard. You sure both of them are getting enough voltage under high load. If not they won't switch to high flow mode and lean out up top will happen. Typically 4k rpm and up.
They are directly 4 feet away from the battery, with the DW rewire kit. fuses aren't popping or nothing. I can't really drive the car under load and check the volts being drawn lol.
I just need an idea on what to check next really Its either the pumps of the full blown thing is choking it... I'm thinking a pump but idk. They should be under warranty correct?
Yeah I had to check voltage on an evo once like that haha. Yeah and it should definitely be under warranty still
No mechanical problem will stem your issues if I'm understanding your setup correct. A bad hobbs switch killing your pumps when they're supposed kick could but you say both of your are hardwired to run constantly. But nothing else could cause a brick wall at 0 vac. Also most hobbs switches are set to kick at 10psi or so anyway, again I'm assuming you hardwired both to go full on all the time. Although I will add, the full blown double pumpers are literally the lowest quality senders you could run, you will have to replace it something in the next year if you're going to keep dual pumps. I've seen it happen to pretty much everyone who runs them. They're held together with JB weld! And JB weld + E85....
The ECU isn't seeing something, you're probably lucky you're getting the knock sensor and IAT codes, the other problems are not going to be so obvious. Sounds to me like the MAP sensor isn't reading correctly; when it starts to read more than atmospheric something is going wrong electrically and borking the ECU. I would log the basics while you instigate the problem. If something is shorting bad it'll show up in some way shape or form in the spread sheet.
Edit: Namely, log your injector pulse width. That will tell you exactly if it's the ECU leaning it out of the lack of pump.
Yes, both are wired to be on all the time. I logged the map sensor when I did a boost leak test up to 33 psi. It was about 2 psi higher then the boost gauge, and everything seemed g2g. I think I still have that log.
I was going to get a squash performance dp but they don't make one for the gsx...
So are you saying that I might have just a bad ecu? I followed the conversion chart to the evo 8 harness to the t, granted I got rid of alot of wires, but everything for signal is still there. I metered the entire harness 5 +times.
So what exactly should I log then? Also what should my pulse width be at?
I was going to go into 0 vac tonight and go pro my fuel pressure gauge, while logging some important items, but I don't think I'm going to fix what I found tonight on the car for about a week.....
Also the last MAP that Tom gave me for fuel is rated for a 1100 whp fuel map set up, and it I have issues with that, IDK what to do..
Where they should be depends entirely on the setup, but if it's getting leaner the higher your rev or more into boost you get then IF it were an account of the injector duty cycle the cycle would either stay the same or barely be increasing with the load. Given that this crossover is at the boosting point, I believe it's engine management related because as I said before even with bum fuel parts there won't be a clean but line necessarily that the problems begin to show face.
For what it's worth maybe you do have a bad ECU, while I'm not expert on your thread I know you're had more than your fair share of electrical gremlins and one of them may very well have damaged the ECU. If you want a budget fix grab an 01-05 Eclipse GS ECU and flash your ROM on it and see what happens. It's the same as the Evo ECU.
I still suspect its the wiring though. Unfortunately having the wiring right at the ECU doesn't necessarily mean the car is wired correctly. I've seen (I hate always saying that but it's the only way I can start a sentence) a lot of really weird electrical shenanigans with these things, a lot of them stemming from off kilter grounds or sharing circuit feed sources. It's also very possible the ECU is kicking into a limp mode when it starts to see boost as a reaction to not having a knock sensor or an IAT. The IAT is a major component in SD tuning, it's not like running a MAF where it accounts for a +/- 3-5% in fueling, it can be a 20% difference in speed density. The ECU just might not know what to do without it. Limp mode shows up in different strains when you get into built stuff like this, what for you is a major lean condition could be the ECU dumping a preset amount of fuel as it saw fit in stock form but with the bigger injectors it doesn't really open them because it doesn't call on the ECUFlash set latencies and what not in limp mode. The same way that unplugging the MAF in the V6 cars with a 3.8 swap blows through a quarter tank of gas in 10 miles (no joke) but if you do it to a stock V6 it runs almost stock. It's not logical anymore, crazy things happen.
I didn't see it mentioned, did this problem just start of was it there from first startup?
Alright Justin, thanks for taking the time to explain. It would be nice if it was the ecu. I just downloaded the evo circuit diagram and I'm going to go over it. As far as it showing up, to me it just happened, but I haven't been WOT yet until last week to see it. I had to see why I was getting knock at 2,500 rom, my damn subframe is loose! no balance shafts in a solid mounted motor is no joke! Gotta figure out a way to keep the nuts from backing off, might try lock washers and lock tight. safety wire might be the only option lol.
it would be hard to safety wire a stud but you could try to double nut. Those subframe studs seem pretty long so many you could fit back to back nuts.
Good progrese. SD. 2000cc injectors are a pain, pain to tune. Ones you go above 1200cc injector gets very unstable specially with hot cams. Ecu cant re-adjust like silvertune says. SD means static u have to tell the ecu what to do. Is a table to tune ratio on the fuel side.
To test, just adjust your high low fuel map. Let say 120load + 2500k rpm. Adjust like 10 AFR all that row and column. Do a pull and check wide band afr match your AFR. If u see lean it means more injector tune. There are more tables that adjust fuel that are not define. Is the scaling right. I mean is a 2.5 motor right? Evom there is a whole thread about injector tune and tables above 1200cc.
Oh yeah 2.4 no balance shafts, solid mounts. The subframe bolts are going to be one of many that come lose again and again. I'd red loctite anything you don't intend to pull off regularly.
The latest map I have no room to add anymore fuel. Its giving it all its got lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Isaurio
not really, just drill through the nut, and bam. But I think I'm going to go double or triple nut with lock tight. only time the front frame will come out is when I repaint it.5Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_01
I know...Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertune
you could try stover/c nuts and loctite for the subframe
stover nuts are to big to fit in the subframe bolt holes. no way of tightening them. So i'm going to fasten all tomorrow to get some oem style nuts. BTW the oem subframe nuts are stover nuts lol. So did a log with duty cycle and the other one(forgot, tired). I have no idea what I'm reading, but I only glanced at it while I was doing a pull, and its bad, car breaks up because no fuel at like 3 psi now lol wtf. tomorrow i'm going to check the injectors again, and get in tank for the first time see if I can find anything. I did fix my knock issue though. And I did look at the wiring diagram for the evo and this is interesting. TPS, fuel tank pressure, crank, cam, water temp, all share same ground and power. So I'll dig around some more i the diagrams and see if I can come up with anything, but as far as I can tell as long as the sensor is getting power and is sending the signal to the right port in the ecu, the ecu is happy, because none of these signals are digital, they are all analog (fluctuating voltage based on physical elements, I.E. tps moving(rheostat) ect) Still trying to find an evo 8 ecu though le sigh
What do you need the evo ECU for?
I do have an 00 eclipse GS wiring harness if you ever find yourself wanting to start over. It's mostly complete, idiot cut the injectors, a coil pack and the ac pigtail off before I got to it but I picked up the pigtails at least. Nothing that wouldn't be peanuts compared to your current situation.
If the duty cycle doesn't ramp up significantly as it starts to boost than you have either a bad ECU or more likely something feeding the ECU is bad. I would log the MAP sensor, get the IAT working at log that also. If the ROM function has been confirmed than those are your final variables.
Sucks. Specially to a engine that is not broken in and have injectors problems with super lean conditions. SD is a pain with new setup. I would have start with a MAF setup until you break in piston ring. Them you could move over SD for more gains. Hope you find the problem.
MAP Sensor works, I have been trying to find how to log my iat forever, and cannot locate anything info on that for evo scan. I have an evo harness that I stole pigtails from so I should be good with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertune
The motor is broken in, and thats why I discovered this. The car runs great inside of vac, but the moment it it goes into boost it leans up, not bad until about 10 psi, but still. I don't have room with a maf setup. And if everything is good to go, SD is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaurio
If it hasn't seen boost it isn't broken in. You haven't parked a semi tractor on your bearings yet or prompted the rings to introduce themselves to the cylinder walls with 1500 PSI and 1500 degree EGT's. Engines need to see significant load in 100 miles or so or the rings start to file down, it takes a lot of heat and pressure to seat them especially in high end performance motors with extremely hard rings and big gaps and bearing tolerances. If it doesn't happen quickly enough you lose compression, engine life and will always burn just a smidge of oil.
Yeah I supposed thats true, and totally makes sense.
OK so I went through my wiring, and everything is there. I fixed my IAT issue and it functions on evoscan. The sensors that need 5VDC get five volts, all of them are grounded, and the signal wire is good. I wish they would publish the circuits of the ecu that determine load. I mean besides the map sensor and tps what is used to determine load in the ecu, ie what signals. I'm beginning to wonder if I do indeed have a bad ecu, because I know for a fact my tps works, and my map sensor works up to 35 psi because I watched it on evoscan during my boost leak test. Wait a minute, I wonder if the ecu has two different circuits to control fuel, in vac and under load. That would make sense since I work fine in vac, but the moment I have ANY NON VAC haha ie 0 and above, it leans out because it doesn't know what is where. And I even checked my injectors, and they are spotless. I have no reason to be leaning out unless the ecu is at a loss for fuel delivery.
BTW i'm thinking out loud. If anybody has any input, please input!
Cliff notes: The stock ecu to evo ecu conversion chart is pretty much right, but there are a couple things that need to be changed, I'll make a new one when I have time.
EDIT: The evo ecu determines load by airflow per revolution
Try to flash another SD compatible ROM. Maybe is a bad calculation on the code. If you check tps while engine is off. key ON. Check tps values on evo scann. Standard value is 12.2-13.33%. Floor the tps and make it WOT slow. See if the value reach 100%. I seem if tps location signal wire is wrong. U will see increase of value them at mid way it will go negative, this will explain the load to tps confusion.
The ROM works perfectly on another car that he has tuned. He even sent the same map of mine to a guy and it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaurio
TPS is fine. above 90% on WOT a look at it all the time in evoscan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaurio
I have an ecu coming tuesday, and something else coming in a couple weeks I think haha
I see. Does the other car with the same rom/ maps has the same setup as u. I mean like a replica? The ecu wont react the same with different setup. There is way to much error variable for the ecu could keep a stable fuel mix or timing. But for sure try another ecu. Or even go with a stand alone.
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Yep exact same setup. Fuel and map sensor with 2.4LR Lol no standalone, I'm not no...
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Incase anybody is keeping track, I found the issue. changed ecus, didn't fix anything. The dang FPR. I adjusted my base fuel pressure to 50 psi WITH IDLE, and the car hits 15psi on boost no issues. I ordered a new fpr, and hopefully this being a smaller one it will function.
Nice. So vacuum off is at 50? Or thats with vacuum
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Whatever you do don't set it below 43.5psi with the vac line off.
Why is that silvertune. Mine is set at 38 with vac off and goes up to 40 with vacumm. Not sure if mine is even right. Lol
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With the vac off its more likely closer to 60psi. Dude you fuel pressure should DECREASE when you have max vac. Example. 32 psi for me with vac on pulling 18 inches of merc. Less vac = more pressure UNTIL you get to your base fuel pressure, ie 43.5 psi with the line off. Then it should be 1:1 ratio for fuel pressure to boost pressure.
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Wait. U right. I set mine at 43.5 and now is around 40-41psi. I was getting confuse. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Galantman03
What is your vacuum readings at idle with your cams?
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16 lol
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Mine is at -12 272 cam
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I have 282s i believe, gsc s3
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Well got some good news and bad news...
Good news is the g got waxed and buffed to a shine and I was learning how to launch it tonight, it was raining so its easier on the drivetrain and me lol and it went well...
until I hear a noise on the way home. :( wastegate flange weld broke on the manifold... grrrr