damn! that engine looks good. How much boost are you planning on pushing?
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damn! that engine looks good. How much boost are you planning on pushing?
always nice to see a wrecked 4g63 put to good use cali; i've read good things so far, so i can't wait to see what you do with it. for everyone else, thanks for all the info, i really do appreciate it. although the trans is not what i'm worried about, just rear end/subframe components, which i would imagine now that either auto or manual 2g would work and i just need to match the final drive ratio to the front with new diff. internals when its all done. the car's gonna be 6a13tt/5m/awd imported, so i'll have a custom driveshaft made for connective purposes. thanks again everyone!
wow seems like everyone is gunning for a awd 8g, myself included.
I cant wait to see your car awd!!
Im buying a rear end tomorrow...Do i need the rear hubs for these axles to go in??Also can i use my shocks and rear knuckle for this swap?
I know you can use the 8g shocks and im not sure about the knuckles though, you definetly need the hubs because the stock 8g rear hubs arent hollow & splined for an axle.
^Gotcha...Imma try and get this rear on in a week or so..Got the whole thing for $220.00 with gas tank and all
so i read through the tut on club3g last night, and i know if we fit the evo tranny in our car, we have to knotch out the subframe to get it to fit. now i know eclipse and galants are mostly the same, but he didn't mention anything about knotch the front subframe for the evo tranny to fit in the eclipse, is the eclipse front subframe different? as in it doesn't require you to knotch it out? also does it bolt right up to the galant and everything lines up? just curious thats all
Im not sure who's tutorial you read, but the only people really sharing knowledge over there on this topic were Slava who hasnt been around in a while, Balla, Ithinkyou and BostonHatcher. Boston and Balla both have pics up of how they cut the subframe, reinforced it and then spaced the steering rack down lower. I know for a fact that you have to trim the subframe to fit the back of the bell housing (remember I have an EVO trans in my car now) and the reall cutting is to fit the transfer case. You need to cut/reinforce alot of the center area of the front subframe and also cut into the firewall on the bottom to give the transfer case vertical clearance. Boston has alot of good pics in his original thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
It was bostons build thread, i guess i didn't really pay attention to the subframe, i thought he just cut it out to fit the tcase and, i didn't see that he mentioned about knotching it for the evo tranny too lol. speaking of which, whats the word on the custom front subframe?
edit: so i went back and looked at the thread, i guess he never took any pics of the front, just of the aft of the front subframe, since that was mainly the focus cuz of the tcase... bummer lol
I just checked the thread, looks like that pic I was talking about disappeared from his thread....BUT WAIT........... I however, did not lose it, I kept it after he first sent it to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r/DSC00882.jpg
so thats the only knotching to fit the evo tranny? interesting it almost looks like its knotched right where the two housings blot to one another
I sure hope more was done with that subframe. Driving a car with that in it would scare the piss out of me. If that lets go your front wheels are going anywhere they please and so is the rest of the car.
That said, without seeing the rest of it and what was done after this picture was taken I would not duplicate it. The original fabricator may very well have added extra bracing that can't be seen in the photos.
take a closer look. Look at the driver side of the subframe (right side in the pic) see where the top of the rack comes out, now look down, there is a "window" cut there to clear the bell housing, just below the window the subframe is notched out on the bottomQuote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
Also.... take a closer look. Look to the bottom of the subframe, see that giant steel I-beam down there, doesnt come from the factory like that. There is an I-Beam on the front and back of the subframe welded in, trust me, that thing isnt going anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsh
2x thats the most solid piece on the car..Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewi
ah ok a little more than what i saw first, but still less than what i actually thought. I think i might just go a custom tubular one for many reason though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewi
Your gonna spend 1000+ to have that done with little performance gain, other than maybe a 10lb weight savings. I priced out having a local place do it here, they fab that type of stuff all the time and I was quoted 1500-2000.Quote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
You guys keep this thread alive although Cali hasnt posted since July. just wondering
just wondering what?
Damn Cali...I just checked this thread....you indeed are a mad man! LOL. Its gonna be the shit when its done. Hopefully I can make MOD '11 so I can run some ideas I have for mine by you! I'll hire you for a job! LOL
well all of it pertains to the awd swap, i hope cali doesn't mind, if he does well we can start another thread, but why do that, when pretty much all this info in here is for the swap anyhow.Quote:
Originally Posted by mko
what about the drive shaft hangers? i didn't see them or here anything about them in bostons thread. what is the purpose of them, when i see 4wd trucks and rwd cars with out them.
i MIGHT have it done by then but doubtful. definitely try to come by, we'll talk!Quote:
Originally Posted by evil-G-nius
there's a couple options from what i've seen, you can use the evo hangers or the rear one from a gsx. (or mix/match; driveshafts too or custom) i still haven't decided which route to take but i have both sets already.Quote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
i have all the parts pretty much including a 4g63 and transmission/tc. already working on the wiring too. more than anything i just need to finish the starion first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali
The 2g rear hanger is the easiest due to its shape and using the rear section of the 2g driveshaft works, then the front section from the hanger to the transfer case will be custom. Drive Shaft Shop made boston hatcher an aluminum front shaft and an adaptor connect it to the rear shaft for around $800. Any reputable shop that makes driveshafts could do the same and make it from steel substantially less.
If you go steel you need to go with a 3" or larger diameter front section on a 2-piece drive shaft. Go on, ask me how I know ;) Given the larger diameters needed I determined I was better off using a 3 piece.
so how many hangers are needed? can you use all 2g hangers? or do you have to use like a combination of evo hangers for the forward part of the vehicle and 2g for the aft part of the vehicle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewi
Im not sure why a 3" shaft would be a problem, the shaft Bostonhatcher is using is 3" maybe even 3.5" and its a total of two pieces, the aluminum shaft is the front section and the stock 2g shaft is the rear section.Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsh
Quote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
You really only need one hanger and like I said the 2g ones are preferable because are easier to weld into out tunnel since they fit into the 2g similar where as the EVO hangers are staggered off the the sides, they attach a little differently. If your plan is to run a two piece drive shaft you need one hanger, 3 piece drive shaft requires 2 hangers, not sure why anyone would want to run a 3 piece shaft though, in the end its just more work.
I went with a 3 piece because the 2.5" diameter 2 piece I had failed at 85 mph, destroyed my transfer case and beat the shit out of my exhaust and underbody. I do not know how much space there is under an 8g but on the 7g the tunnel is too narrow for a 3" shaft and a 3" exhaust. Just running the 2.5" shaft I had serious issues with fitment. I'd have to see the 8g belly to say for sure if the same issues will apply.
do you really need the driveshaft hanger? i guess i don't understand exactly what it does lol or why its needed... i look at my dads 4wd... no driveshaft hangers and all... i just need this cleared up for me lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Stewi
Yes. Its all about driveshaft angle, vibration and weight. First off, from where the EVO t-case is aligned versus the rear differential alignment, its not a perfectly straight line, thats the first reason you cant use a one piece shaft. The hanger holds the section of shaft in place, typically just before or after a joint. So since you need to use a two piece shaft, you need a hanger. Also, having the hanger bearing helps to reduce vibration as the shaft spins, it causes reduced wear in the U-joints and less lateral "side loading" if you will, on the differential.Quote:
Originally Posted by galantman03
I guess I figured the u joints in the driveshaft would u-joint? the right way, so you wouldn't need the hangers.. guess not lol. thanks for clearing it up
galantman03, Stewi covered some basics but there is a lot more to it. The drive system in AWD Mitsu cars is very different from a 4wd truck. In a truck the shafts are typically extending from the center of the wheel base, where the transfer case is, out to the axles. That means they are fairly short. They are also bolted in place at both ends.
The Mitsu cars have one long shaft running from almost the front wheels to the rear. Mitsu engineered it to be a three piece unit with four joints. Only the rear u-joint actually has a section bolted into place. The front uses a slip joint where it slides freely in and out of the transfer case. They made it that way because the transverse motor layout rocks forward and backward a lot and the transaxle and transfer case rock with it. That means it slides forward and backward along the length of the drive shaft so the joints have to be able to handle that.
Since the drive shaft is only attached rigidly at one end and uses four joints, it can't stay up without carrier bearings to keep it there. You can see the bearings in my photo below. They're the big hoops the shaft runs through (two of them).
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/010-1.jpg
Without these the front yoke going into the transfer case would just slip out.
After my drive shaft snapped I did a lot of research. Turns our there were actually several reasons for the three piece shaft. Due to the gear ratios and wheel sizes on the AWD Mitsu cars the drive shaft spins very fast. At 70 mph it is spinning around 3400 RPMs. At 130 it is spinning at around 6300. That isn't unusual if the thing spinning is small but when you start dealing with a shaft that is five or six feet long it causes problems. Drive shafts do some pretty crazy stuff under load including flexing like a sine wave (s-curve). Over a short distance it doesn't amount to much but over longer distances that sine wave leads to things breaking (like it did with mine). To combat that designers will use wider diameter pipes (it is actually the ratio of diameter to length that really matters). Delivery trucks and the like will use 4-5" diameter drive shafts that are very long. They also use very large tires so the shaft isn't spinning as fast. For Mitsu's a 2.5" diameter two piece shaft is too small. Even if the walls are made thicker it simply cannot handle the RPM's and the torque a modified car will put out. A 3" diameter pipe barely makes it. For mine I would really have needed a 3.5" diameter to play it safe. Pipe that diameter is more expensive, heavier, and puts that weight further out from the center of rotation which saps power. Carbon fiber helps a lot but it is pricey and would almost certainly have to be custom made for an AWD swapped Galant which makes it even worse.
There are drive shaft calculator spread sheets available on the web which include gear ratios, tire diameters, shaft widths, lengths and wall thicknesses and they'll tell you if your shaft stands a snow ball's chance in hell of staying in one piece. That was something I didn't do the first time and I paid the price for it.
To be fair, I did also have an issue with rubbing which weakened the pipe. Looking at the calculations though it would only have been a matter of time before it happened regardless. Without a large diameter for the two piece shaft it simply isn't rigid enough to handle any real power or speed.
Nice work. I really wasnt gonna get that far into it, but im glad you did.
How hard was it to bolt in the rear end? Voodoo is doing the swap in his 3gay and has a evo 8 shell just wondering how hard it is cause he was going to go with a 2g rear end setup but i thought the evo rear would bolt it.
The EVO rear subframe itself is totally different and doesnt fit. The EVO rear diff will physically bolt into place on a 2g subframe by just swapping over the rear diff cover from a 2g onto the EVO diff housing, since the 2g cover has the 2 bolt holes for mounting it and the EVO one does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galant306m
Hmmmm well if he uses the 2g rear subfram I may attempt to make the evo one fit in the 7g..... yes some work will need to be done but no it won't be impossible. Anything can ft in any car with enough work I may put my hands on it and see what I can come up with
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
If your doing all that just go custom tubular with a fuel cell, alot less trouble and saves weight.
at any point it would just be way easier to just but a 2g subframe and not worry about the evo one.
Finally finished the entire swap. See first post for new pics/video.
awesome!
Dang it lol you beat me! NICE WORK!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali
so my question is, did you order the drive shaft from dss, and then take their slip yoke off, and install the starions? also, you wouldnt happen to have the part number for the starions slip yoke would you?
That evo flange is the one that comes with the evo rear diff correct?