Yah man, you have a welder, I was very surprised that you didnt weld the piping all together! And 110%, get rid of all those nasty 90* bends in the UIC!
Printable View
Yah man, you have a welder, I was very surprised that you didnt weld the piping all together! And 110%, get rid of all those nasty 90* bends in the UIC!
Well I decided to use the cheap-o 90* couplers in the UIC till I could afford to purchase more piping and wire to relocate the battery. 90% of the blow offs are coming from those two 90* couplers.Quote:
Originally Posted by seth98esT
wow.. I'm getting excited. I cant wait til' I'm DOHC'd up and tuboed. one question how often does your coupler fly off of your I/C pipes?
clean the ends of the pipes, and the inards fo the couplers with brake parts cleaner..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Black
then wipe them down.
proceed to coat them in some high strength hairspray.
then slide everythign together.
or
you coudl grind near the edges to create a valley for the rubber to mold to in turn creating etter hold after the rubber is clamped down...
or just get yoru welder out,
and put a couple of beads on there.
the easiest thing to do is just put spot sized beads on.
equidistant from each other around the circumference of the pipe.
that way you can put the clamp on the other side of the beads, and the couplers won't slide off.
<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%">
QUIT F***ING AROUND... AND DO A DAMN BOOST LEAK TEST ALREADY</span>
or you could keep guessing at why its doing this or where this is happening.
just do the damn boost leak test.
test it to 20 psi.
do it over and over until you have zero leaks.
if one thing is obviously leaking that you cannot fix w/o ordering new parts(like a bov or pcv) cap it off and continue with the test.
cause i'm sure that there are other leaks.
get rid of every last leak, and you will have the most accurate tune, and the best possible spoolup.
remember you are MAS
not only does a boost leak effect yoru spoolup... but it also kill syour tune.. causing you to run pig ass rich, and making you hit fuel cut sooner.
yeah thats right ,
i said it.
now get to work.
;-)
Ya thats precisely what I had planned to do. That and cleaning the ends should take care of the coupler problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCstunr
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%">
QUIT F***ING AROUND... AND DO A DAMN BOOST LEAK TEST ALREADY</span>
or you could keep guessing at why its doing this or where this is happening.
just do the damn boost leak test.
test it to 20 psi.
do it over and over until you have zero leaks.
if one thing is obviously leaking that you cannot fix w/o ordering new parts(like a bov or pcv) cap it off and continue with the test.
cause i'm sure that there are other leaks.
get rid of every last leak, and you will have the most accurate tune, and the best possible spoolup.
</div>
With what? The air compressor that I DON'T own? I tried using the bicycle pump and as Underrated pointed out, that doesn't seem to work. It won't even hold 1 psi without immediatley depressurising. I've tried multiple pipe/pump combinations, and none can even begin to pressurize. Either the pump itself has a leak, or more likely my leaks are so large that a simple bike pump can't keep up.
On the other hand, I found by spraying carb cleaner around the atleast one of the couplers that it was leaking. Though I can't do anything about that till I get the t-bolt clamps.
Three days left. Lets see if I can blow my motor before I leave.
1. Go to Home DepotQuote:
Originally Posted by Jet Black
2. buy an air compressor
3. build a DIY leak tester
4. do boost leak test
5. Return the compressor to Home Depot and get money back
I have $17 in the checking account.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryBear
Jet Black...here is what I would do before I did the boost leak test.
First try to eliminate as much coupler connections in your I/C piping. Weld beading should fairly easy for you...since you did you own welding. I weld beaded my pipes..and its pretty easy. Then get some good couplers and quality Tbolt clamps. I got my couplers from ATP turbo online and I also got my couplers and transitions from there too.
I strongly recommend not to get cheap Tbolt clamps. There have been several guys locally that have bought T bolt clamps from Napa and they were worse than worm clamps. The brand they sell on ATP turbo website is a great brand...if I can i'll post the brand name. I was lucky that I found a place locally that sold the same brand.
Once you eliminate some coupler connections and put in new silcone couplers and good ol' T bolt clamps then I would do a boost leak test. I personally don't see why you should do it now since you already know you have boost leaks and you already have a idea where and why you have leaks. Fix the leaks..then do the boost leak test. I am routing for you man...I would like to see your beast ruin some peoples days. :firedevil:
Here is the site I got majority of my couplers, T bolt clamps and transitions.
ATP turbo online
Yah, I have t-bolt clamps and I love them! On my UICP, they are all 45* bends so I have never blown off one, but my LICP, I have 3 90* bends, not very sharp bends, but still 90*. I have blown off a coupler there a handful times. But whenever they blew off, I just tightened down those t-bolt clamps and I havent blown off a pipe in months!
This is at 18psi, but just on a puny, low cfm 14b :P
Ya I'm going to get started on the beads today. My problem with beading is that I can't make nice clean welds as I don't have a gas unit. Since I'm using flux core, it looks like shit, and spatters all over the place. This may not matter to a farmer, but for my application its like a machete in place of a scalpel...absolutetly no finese.
The T-bolt clamps I'm getting are made by Breeze, which seems to be a popular company. Hopefuly this isn't the same one NAPA uses. BTW Whats up with the NAPA ones? Do they not use the lock nut? I noticed that t-bolts using normal nuts are as worthless as worm clamps. Either way the local Napa has less parts than my own garage.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-G-rim
Also as soon as I get the money I plan to purchase the NTK wideband sensor (I bought the controller + logger without realizing that it didn't include the sensor), and a million 2.5" mandrel bends to eliminate as many couplers as possible (that link has, by far, the CHEAPEST bends online).
Its funny, I only blow couplers when I let off the throttle too fast. The bov may not be functioning properly (I noticed no differance when I capped it off last night...so its not leaking). Considering it was designed to be recirculated, I'm assuming that it requires the vacuum on other other end of the bov to help it open up.Quote:
Originally Posted by seth98esT
if your using flux core wire to weld you can do this...
put either a couple layers of foil or vasaline around the area you are welding and that will cut down on the splattering...
or
after your done welding sand everything excess down or chisel it off
flux core can get pretty messy foil always works for me just make sure you use 2 or 3 layers
also are you sure you got good penatration through the welds? because sometimes there are holes from when you lift the tip out of the weld you just made...
so are you saying that your bov isn't gettign its boost reference from the nintake manifold?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Black
cause it won't work without vacuum.
if you are running a boost only signal to the bov, then it will never open.
cause there will always be as much boost pressure under it as there is over it.
the valve will be held shut by the pressure of the spring.
you need vacuum above the diaphram and boost under the diafram to overpower the spring pressure and cause the bov to pop open.
i really hope i just misunderstood your last post. :shock:
as far as boost leak testing goes,
if you want to do it for pennies.
just build your leak tester(with a pressure regulator on it),
then go to a gas station that has free air.
and do it there.(do it at night when its not busy)
when i did my leak test i bought a $39 1 gallon compressor from wallmart. kept it nice and clean, used it, then took it back.
i bought a bundle of stainless steel tbolt clamps off ebay. i've been running them for over a year and have never had a pipe blow off(even with my 50trim) and have installed and removed most of them several times, not one has rusted, or siezed or anythign undesirable.
think i spent 20 bucks for all of mine but i can't be sure.
there was a guy in the dsmtuners classifieds yesterday selling 10 or so tbolt clamps for 15 dolalrs shipped!!!
Thats a great idea about the foil. I was using some anti-spatter spray. Though it doesn't work very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by underated
Ya the penetration was generally a little too good. I would usually end up with a nice big hole. I got sick of trying to grind down the welds, and just went crazy with muffler mender. That has held up much better than I expected (I'm using it on the manifold as well). It effectively sealed all the welds 100%.
LOL about the bov. No I hooked it up properly (refferenced off of the plenum). I confirmed this last night, after getting everything nice and clamped together. Only thing is that its not recirculated since I have no room to do so (which I UTTERLY hate!). Since I'm an automatic, I should be able to hold boost fairly well between shifts. Though since I'm venting, its keeps reseting between shifts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCstunr
Ya I was totally wrong about the bike pump. The problem was that the leaks were so bad that I couldn't even begin to do a leak test. I clamped down the couplers with t-bolts clamps (some of them atleast), and discovered a few leaks at one of the welds. Some muffler mender, and a hair dryer solved that problem (muffler mender FTW!).
At this point I can hold 5 psi (hold ~ not creep! now it only creeps to 6 psi :shock:), AND let off the throttle as many times as I want. This sounds kinda wierd, but I blew off atleast 3 dozen times last night without a single problem. Not a single coupler popped off the whole night (at 5 psi - not 1 or 2 psi).
The turbo reacts just as I anticipated. Its like an on-off switch. It will fully spool by 5000 at WOT (I figure that will drop after fixing the other leaks). It won't do shit if I want to simply cruise. Which is PERFECT. The pull at an untuned 5 psi is mind-blowingingly-unfucking-believably-rediclously-stupid. At thats only after fixing the intake leaks. I still have to do the intake manifolds leaks.
BUT I am now out of time. Today I am leaving for university, and will be leaving my car at home. So this project will be entering a hiatus for a few months. Even though its not tuned, and its leaking oil like Johnny #5, I decided to leave the turbo in there while I'm gone. When I get back, this will keep me motivated.
Anyways, by no means is this the end to this project. In fact its actually the beggining. I still plan to build up the other block I have, and install the 5 spd. I'll get back to you guys when I'm in university.
Heres a short clip of last nights progress:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c218aa3...83b01033705.htm
Well Good luck Jet Black on the whole college life thing. Maybe this is a good thing to get a little break from the car...this should let your mind settle relax.
Once again..good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-G-rim
Thanks dude. Ya I'll need this time to rebuild my finances. Just to make a point that I'm not in fact done wit this, I just bought 16 NGK wideband sensors. :lol:
LOL where! Price? I need some spare 5 wire Bosch wideband sensors. Ive went through 3 in 1.5 years lol!
:lol: Same place I got my $20 5spd (10k miles) and my $300 engine (41k), Ebay. They are all used NGK sensors. 99% sure they wont work in place of the Bosch, since the Bosch won't work with my controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by seth98esT
BUT there is some good news: 8 Widebands + CONTROLLERS:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...A%3AIT&rd=1
They will probably relist it soon (they did it with this one ~ original reserve was $100). ;)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>* DO NOT make an open dump with ribbed tubing. </div>
I'd love to see someone substantiate the claims made in that thread. Sounds like COMPLETE BS to me. "The ribs are holding the boost." :roll:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ipcheck)</div><div class='quotemain'>Problem fixed. I used a ribbed pipe which was easy to bend for the dump,the ribs were holding the extra boost, and I guess that's why I was overboosting. I used another pipe (non ribbed) and now boost is corrected to 9psi.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveVR4
Pictures...
Old Pipe...
http://www.sunshinewindows.com/ac/dump1.jpg
Problem fixer...
http://www.sunshinewindows.com/ac/dump2.jpg</div>
http://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2...ing#post2257537
If you got any other stupid ass comments or questions, keep them to yourself.
i'll back that up full force. ribbed tubing, especially flexible exhaust pipe, HAS to create pressure further up the source. it's simple physics....
Hey ASSHOLE. Don't link me back to the thread, I read the whole thing. I said I'd love to see someone substantiate that he was seing 20psi of boost just because of a ribbed dump pipe. If someone can do so, no problem. I was saying his explanation sounds like BS. I didn't say YOU are full of shit, just that I'd love to see some proof. Maybe if the pics worked, we might see that he went from a 1" OD ribbed pipe to a larger solid pipe, etc. Who knows. So if you can pull your head out of your ass, feel free to apologize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Black
I'll try to explain this in the simplest terms possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveVR4
First off lets begin with a simple lesson in English by defining the word substantiate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>substantiate - sub‧stan‧ti‧ate -verb
1. to establish by proof or competent evidence: to substantiate a charge.
2. to give substantial existence to: to substantiate an idea through action.
3. to affirm as having substance; give body to; strengthen: to substantiate a friendship.
</div>
The competent evidence (or more accurately, empirical evidence) in question was the act itself of swapping out the dumptube. By switiching to a non-ribbed tube of similiar dimensions, the problem was fixed in it's entirety. Simple deduction is enough to prove his assesment. This conclusion is made all the easier when you consider that nothing else was changed (ceteris paribus), so therefore the only remaining suspect is the ribs or pockets. While he may not have explicity made the claim that the dimensions remained the same, I'm assuming that he's not a total dumbass, and therefore can make such a connection between using a different ID piping and fixing the boost problems (which he would have pointed out). Furthermore just exactly how is he supposed to fit on a larger dumptube with the existing wastegate? Do you even know what an external wastegate looks like? The ID of the outlet port cannot be changed. Therefore you cannot simply use a significantly larger dumptube coming from the flange. Of course it is possible that he went out and bought a reducer pipe for the dumptube. But I don't think he smokes crack, so I highly doubt he did that.
Coming back to the point, the ID of the tube can be assumed to be equal to whatever the ID of the wastegate flange was. The wastegate (and in turn, the flange) was choosen based on that paticular application. So if he was using the dump tube with the ID of the wastegate flange, he shouldn't have had any problems. And certainly not a boost spike to more than twice his set pressure level. But instead what he was using was a dumptube that had numerous pockets in it. Pockets can quite easily cause a substantial increase in pressure (much more so when they are located in such a critical point along the system where maximum pressure is achieved...in the bends). They cause a considerable disturbance in the flow characteristics of the gasses, and in turn slow them down (slow exit velocity is also synonymous with increased pressure). On a device whose sole responicibility is to control boost pressure through evacuation of the excess gasses, any back pressure within the evacuation device (...the dump tube) will translate directly into higher pressure. This problem becomes increasingly compounded with increased pressure. That is by far the simplest explanation available.
Oh, and there is the whole empirical evidence thing that I went over...
Understand?
shut down
i swear if you were a chick....
Thanks for defining substantiate. So interesting, considering I used it properly already.
Obviously I was referring to some proof outside of his post. Don't believe everything that you read on the intarweb. He could have inadvertantly done something to address the real problem in the process or replacing the dump tube. However, your explanation of it was what I was looking for. :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Black
I believe it all! :laughing: :laughing:
And still keeping an eye on this interesting thread. :-D
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveVR4
then what the hell is the point of reading anything on this site, or anything, anywhere for that matter
Take everything with a grain of salt. You believe every bit of info that is posted on message boards? :shock: I've got a bridge to sell you. ;) I'm saying, use common sense and don't be afraid to question what you read. You'll either find out that it was wrong, or you'll learn something. Win/win.
You'll notice that I didn't continue to argue for the sake of arguing, like a troll. I legitimately was questioning the claim, and if someone can back it up, then hopefully a few people including myself will benefit from the knowledge.
LIES!! Everything on the Intarw3b is TRUE!!11!one1! Father Al Gore said so!!
Point taken...I guess this is a good time to come out with the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryBear
I don't have a turbo kit. This whole thread is a total fabrication by me. In fact Matt doesn't even really exist either. He's just an alternate user account that I made.
Yep the truth sure feels good.
Oh and one last thing. The guy with the 350z and boost problems...ya he made all that up as well. He figured it would really funny to make some totally bs story about how he had massive boost problems and then blame it on the "ribbed tubing". How clever was that?!?! I bet he's still laughing about that.
Am I making this up? Who knows? :shock:
Matrix part 4: TGC
I knew it!! The red pill was just a placebo!
Seriously though, have you any updates, or are you in school still?
Haha! I do find it hard to believe that the ribs on the dump would cause an excessive boost creap. I do see how it would cause a small boost creap. I dont really see how it would prevent things from boosting. Maybe I need to click the linkerage :P
Still in school, minus the car. Though that hasn't stopped me from buying parts. 16 wideband oxygen sensors for $50? Sure why not! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by DryBear
From his description I'm assuming he went into limp mode. The ECU probably triggered this based off his airflow and AFR. Granted the ECU is supposed to ignore AFR during open loop, the 350z (and probably the whole VQ family) have intresting electronics. For one they come stock with wideband oxygen sensors. I would wager that it also has certain safe guards for similiar situations in which the airflow exceeds the available fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by seth98esT
More thoughts about the tubing...
The wastegate is a device that is actuated by converting pressure into mechanical work. Its built off the assumption that there won't be any significant restrictions past the outlet. Once the valve opens up the gasses are supposed to evacuated by way of "path of least resistance". Either the turbocharger or the dump tube. In this case the restriction caused by ribbed tubing was significant enough that it created a higher pressure within the tube itself, than that of the turbine inlet. Factor in a large turbine housing which doesn't create much backpressure and you got a path of least resistance through the housing instead of the tube.
Also since you guys can't see the pictures, imagine using your oil drain pipe for the downpipe (or the EGR pipe for the V6 guys). That was basicly what he was using.