4g63t / AWD 7g Build

I pulled the block and transmission out today along with disassembling the front cover on the engine. The oil pump looks really good. I'll take it to the machine shop and see what he says about it. The timing belt looked like it was brand new as well. I cut it getting the head out but I wasn't going to reuse it anyway. I'm contacting the previous owner of the Talon to see when the timing belt was done and to find out if he used new pulleys/tensioner. If those are fairly new I'll go ahead and reuse those.

Unfortunately the driver's side motor mount is completely shot. The center rubber chunk pulled straight out of the housing. I'll have to check on an OEM replacement. I considered going with urethane mounts for about 10 seconds and decided I want this car to stay comfortable so the mounts are staying squishy. My Talon with urethane mounts vibrated like a motorcycle at stop lights. That was with balance shafts in the motor too. Speaking of which, I will be leaving the balance shafts in on this build.

2.4 with no balance shafts and poly mounts= toothless. My gf's 63t with no balance shafts was ok. We didnt have poly mounts in it though. And go for OEM mounts for sure. Aftermarket rubbers suck ass. I blew rear roll mounts in 1 year.

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Originally Posted by eclipsh

Thanks, I'll hit you up when I've got the funds. I'm already spending more than I should just building the engine.

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Originally Posted by Shadow19

How much can you get a hx35 for?

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I will have to see what I can get them for, hopefully I can get a decent price though and turn them around to you guys. We take them off the Dodge trucks all the time to upgrade to the Aurora 3000 Turbo we offer (basically same as the HX35s but more air flow).

Got another fun surprise while I was cleaning up the garage a bit today. On a whim I grabbed the input shaft of the transmission to wiggle it back and forth. It should barely wiggle in and out, 0-0.0020 in. of play is specified by the factory. I think I could almost play Foosball with the input shaft the way it is now. So it looks like I'll be pulling the transmission apart again and checking all the bearings and their preloads. I'm hoping I can just order some new shims and call it good. Last time I looked the synchros appeared to be in great shape. While I'm in there I'll double check everything though including the seals. These unexpected expenses suck but putting parts back in knowing they aren't good and I'll need to pull them again later sucks even more. I've rebuilt one of these transmissions before so I know I can do it but I'm not looking forward to this one bit.

I would love to learn how to rebuild a trans... I could probibly do it but im nervous...

Saturday I opened up the transaxle that was in the car and went through testing the preload on all the bearings. I think someone really messed with this tranny. Two of the bolt holes don't line up properly and the gaps for the shim areas are HUGE. Mitsu doesn't make a shim large enough to fix the endplay. I think someone was mixing and matching housings on this transmission and didn't quite get it right.

So I pulled my spare transaxle apart this morning. I got it as part of the trade for my 1g DSM. It turns out the spare was very recently rebuilt. The synchros look fantastic and by feel the preloads are way better than the other unit. Someone took the center differential apart and rebuilt it too. For some reason though they didn't replace the keys in the synchronizer sleeves. They are badly worn and will need to be replaced. The keys in the first tranny are in great shape so I may just cannibalize them. Oh, the seals on the spare were also replaced and are in great shape. With the good set of keys (and maybe sleeves) it should shift great. One odd thing was the spare was missing the steel ball which holds the rear output shaft in place. Without it the shaft just slides right out. The transfer case won't let it go anywhere but it can't be good having it loose in there. I'll pull the ball from the first tranny and put it in there. If all goes well I'll have one good transaxle back together soon.

I found out some more interesting info about my transaxle. I found some odd differences between the two and wanted to know what was up. Jack over at Jack's transmissions chimed in and offered me some help. Lots of pics of gear clusters in the link for all you pic-whores ;)

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/driv...t-gearset.html

It turns out I've got a hybrid 90, 93+ setup. That means stronger 3/4 gears but still double synchro second. I'll be pulling both gear sets apart and putting together one good one while keeping the other transaxle for spare parts.

Still no word from the machine shop. My regular mechanic said if the oil pump is within specs and the scratches on the case are minor there is no reason not to reuse it. Good thing since I'll be putting some unexpected cash towards the tranny.

I dont know much about trannies, but i read that the strongest tranny is off 92

Ive also read some shit about some of the awd transmissions being made by a company called getreg or some shit like that in germany. Supposedly those are bulletproof. However alot of the shit ive read on the internet has been dead wrong lately.........

3kgt vr4 trannies were Getrag.

^ Correct. If there were bulletproof gears for DSM's people would be all over them. If you start hitting the 400-500hp range on these gears start breaking. Fine by me though since I don't intend to go over 400 at any time since avoiding turbo lag is half the fun of putting my 2.4 build in the car.

mko, I'm not sure if the '92 is particularly strong. Jack says the 3/4 gears out of the '90 are the HD set and he sells these as an upgrade for other years. I think once I have one of these together I'll be in great shape. I've already got roller bearings for the shift linkage, tightened up the sifter to eliminate slop and pulled the rear rubber bushings on the shifter base and replace them with large washers. With good synchros and quality gear oil this thing should shift great and hold up to all the abuse I'll be throwing at it.

I went over to my dad's house yesterday and pressed apart all four gear clusters. Now I need to pick and choose which gears I want to use. More pictures are up over on Tuners.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/driv...t-gearset.html

I spoke with Jon at TRE this morning. We went over my photos and options for the tranny. He spent half an hour on the phone with me which I thought was awesome given how busy he must be and how little I was planning on spending. He's a great guy and really knows his stuff. Explained how Mitsu made the gears, how strong they were and how much stronger shot peening gears makes them. He also told me some stuff I'd never run across like earlier spider gears in the front diff being stronger than the newer ones due to how they were made. Oh, and his prices were better than the competition :)

At any rate, it looks like I'll be getting a new 1/2 synchro hub/slider set, new double syncrho set for 2nd gear, new 5/R hub/slider, a torington bearing for the center diff and everything shot peened for added strength. I'll also get fresh bearings and non-reusables. Unfortunately that means I'm dropping up to $700 or so on the tranny rebuild but better to do it now than later.

Hey guys and gals. I heard back from TRE on Tuesday. Crazy thing is that is the same day UPS said the package would be there. Same day service, how about that. At any rate. The gears looked great and I sent him my earlier model front differential in hopes it had the stronger spider gears. Turns out it did so that'll be nice. Everything was magnafluxed, shot peened and he's putting the clusters back together for me too. Turns out I sent him more gears than he thought I was going to so the price went to $845. That one hurt since I wasn't planning on buying ANYTHING for the transmission when I went into this. Still, I'll have a really nice "new" tranny going into the car that should shift great.

I also finished up another little side project for the car. I've always disliked the raised lettering on the valve cover as it is a place for dirt and grime to collect and is a PITA to get cleaned out.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/001-1.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/002-2.jpg

I picked up 500* engine primer and paint and did two coats of each for the final product. Yeah, it seems silly to do aluminum color paint on an aluminum valve cover but it made it a lot easier to deal with and I'll be using the same paint on the block when it comes back plus maybe the tranny if I have enough left over.

I also got in my new Gates 4G64 DOHC timing kit, hydraulic tensioner and head gasket from Rock Auto. They had the best prices I could find by far. I've already got my full gasket kit and new seals for the timing cover. I need to scrub down the rest of the engine components and I'll be porting the intake manifold for a 1g N/T throttle body I have lying around.

Got a package tonight.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/002-3.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/003-2.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/006-2.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/007-1.jpg

Everything was really well packaged. I think he threw in a new 1st gear synchro too. Hopefully I'll get it back together this weekend. I've got gear oil on order from RRE and should have everything else I need on hand minus some new hoses. I called to bug my machinist a couple days ago and I may be getting my engine back this next week.

coming along nicely. too bad TRE doesnt work with automatics

that diff looks wide open to me :D

When are you going to come out this way and let me drive it?

Thanks qnz :)

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Originally Posted by DOHCstunr

that diff looks wide open to me :D

When are you going to come out this way and let me drive it?

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Indeed it is. I looked at their front dif insert but decided against it after talking to them about it. It will eventually wear down parts and cause issues I don't want to deal with. I've been eyeballing Evo 3 LSD's but the nearly $900 I had to spend on my tranny rebuild was a completely unexpected expense. It basically doubled what I thought my cash outlay for this project would be.

You know those roads go both ways. Get your butt out here. There is less traffic and better roads to drive anyway ;)

I talked to my buddy Rick this morning. He was out at the machine shop yesterday and said they were finally starting on my engine. I'm hoping to have the car ready for a road trip to the L.A./Pasadena area we're planning for next month so hopefully things will come together.

I've been ordering other parts for the car too. I picked up a set of Tein pillow ball shock mounts for all four corners on eBay, new for $170 shipped. I was going to build the Dennis Grant setup but this was half the cost. Rick will be cutting down the spacers for me and I got the spring hats for $20/pair also off eBay. This should get my shock assemblies all set for the way I want them.

I also managed to tighten up the shifter a bit more by shimming it some more with sheet metal I have lying around. It had a little side-to-side wiggle in it where the vertical shaft bolts onto the rest of the assembly. That's gone now. I also managed to fix the air bag system I damaged when I was first building the car (damaged the clip on the computer) and I think I have the cruise control properly wired in now. I still don't know what's up with the A/C system and really want that working before I go to Cali. My wiring diagrams look like I got everything right but with swapping ECU's it is hard to tell.

My mother-in-law (who rocks) is coming over to watch my 4 mo. old daughter today so I can go crawl around under the car. I think I've got a small leak coming from the yoke going into the t-case. I'll be pulling that apart and filling the freeze plug up with high-temp silicone so it can't give me any issues.

I'm still waiting on parts for my tranny. I sent an email out to TRE this morning to find out where they are at. I didn't get all my non-reusables in the first package and I need the shims to set preloads on the gears. The case is all cleaned up though as are a whole mess of other parts I've been washing in the kitchen. Once this is done I really need to put a big sink out in the garage.

Lots going on now. I got the transaxle back together yesterday morning. Everything went together smoothly. While I was doing it the machine shop called to tell me everything was ready so I drove down and picked it all up yesterday afternoon. The head and block both look great. He also file fit the rings and installed the crank/pistons/rods for me. I also got a couple nice surprises. We were going with Topline bearings on his recommendation (1/3 the cost of Clevite and he's never had a problem with them in performance motors) but his distributor was out. The distributor mentioned having the Clevite ones in stock but my machinist said they were just too damn expensive. So the distributor says, "I'll cut you a deal, how's $96?" So now I'm rocking Clevite tri-metal bearings in my engine for $30 more than the Topline would have run. The other nice surprise was that he took a look at the oil pumps for me and said both were fine but one looked practically new so he cleaned it up to look brand new and reassembled the pump.

Now that everything is home all I've managed to do is get the block on the stand and clean up the balance shafts to go back in. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to copper spray the gaskets or just stick them in dry. I used copper spray when I put my 4Runner's 22RE back together and it sure made installation easy. Last night I went digging through the factory manual and printed out useful pages with torque specs and diagrams to make sure I get the right length bolts in the right holes and to generally avoid fucking things up. I'll be trying to take my time on this rather than working at my usual fast pace. I want this puppy to be perfect. I'll get some pictures going as everything comes together.

[QUOTE=eclipsh;595215]Got a package tonight.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/002-3.jpg

:066:

Very nicee

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The head studs are the wrong size.

Turns out that ARP's catalog is mixed up. The dealer sent me head studs for a 6 bolt motor. He'll send the correct ones out and send out a call slip to collect the ones I have. Just one more setback to deal with.

I did get a fair amount done on the short block including mounting the oil and water pumps, installing the balance shafts, rear main seal and painting the whole setup.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...clipsh/054.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...clipsh/053.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...clipsh/051.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...clipsh/052.jpg

The last picture there shows a size 10 JIC fitting welded to the '64 drain pan. I always fought leaks on the stock bolt on flange style fitting so I decided to ditch it for this setup.

Oh and yes, those bolts do have oil on them. Should have cleaned them, didn't.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...clipsh/020.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...clipsh/019.jpg

Still waiting on head studs. I used four old head bolts to hold things together until they arrive. I should be getting the tranny bolted up and putting everything back in the car within the week. Obviously can't start it up or fill it with fluids until the studs get here.

Crap i wish i would have seen this earlier. Was going to tell you to put a little rtv on the freeze plugs just to make sure they do not drop through when the engine heats up.

Not a bad idea but they should be fine as they'll heat up and expand right along with the block. I'm sure the expansion rates aren't the same but my machinist put these in and said he used a little larger plugs and really jammed them in there so they're tight.

Jeeez man. Want to trade?

LOL, I wish my car looked as clean as yours but no.

Very Nice.. why not paint over the thermo housing in silver and hit the manifold with a light coat of high heat black... Awesome work so far..

Looking very nice and clean man =)

Though, I wouldn't advise painting alloy heads or blocks, as they tend to make the engine overheat due to the heat not being dispersed out of the metal. However, it does take a while for this to happen :)

Ive been told since my ENTIRE engine is black.. I mean EVERYTHING that i would suffer from heat soak and whatnot. Been running like that for 2 years and no issue.. YET.. Anyways looking good man. I wouldnt have gone with silver for the block but it seems like a promising build ;-) Edit: Whats the deal with cylinders 2 and 3? Looks like they have some pretty nasty scratches on the upper part.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipsh/001-2.jpg

It runs :) Got it fired up and drove it around the subdivision a bit. I need to do some messing around with the exhaust. I can't get it to stop rubbing the drive shaft. I've got some wire around it tying it off to the driver's side frame rail to try and hold it to that side until I can get it on a lift and get it right. I'll be taking it to my mechanic's shop in the morning to check on the AC system. Hopefully I can get that working too.

Nice! Hope to see some action vids soon!

can we get some zero radias donut vids when the snow falls?

I'll try my best to get some action videos soon. The car sounds deeper and meaner now with the 2.4. I'm really loving it. Spool seems faster too but I really need to get it tuned to be sure. My mechanic and I got the A/C working and got the exhaust clearanced a bit more. I will see about doing some tuning on the car tomorrow.

The new transmission was a real PITA to shift at first. It wouldn't go into any gears until it had idled for a while and gotten the oil into everything. I couldn't get into reverse until after I made it into town and no 5th gear until I got home. It is loosening up though and shifting much smoother. By the time the engine is broken in it should be nice and smooth.

I took a coworker for a quick parking-lot spin and let him drive it tonight. He heard the BOV go off and went, "Holy shit, is this thing turbo?" This was after looking in the engine bay. I laughed, told him yes and then I drove him and pinned him to the seat with a quick 1-2 pull and then slammed him into the seat belt with braking as hard as I could. "Damn, dude...." Yeah. I love my car ;) Can't wait to tune it and crank the boost up to 20.

As far as not going into gears, you might also check your clutch pedal arm. I have issues with the nut working it's way up the shaft(no pun intended) so when you press on the pedal i'm not disengaging the clutch as much as i think i am. in turn making it harder to get in and out of gear. I've had to adjust mine several times over the years... in fact it needs to be adjusted now, i just don't feel like getting upside down under my dash to do it.

the easiest way to check is to look at your pedals, if they look like they are all on the same plane, equal distance from the floor, then you'll might need to adjust the clutch. it should be slightly raised compared to the brake and gas.

excellent news eclipsh on a side note I can't help but to laugh at this one blue ice.
"I have issues with the nut working it's way up the shaft"

Thanks for the advice Blue. I've had that happen in the past too and put some work into making sure everything under the dash was nice and tight this spring. I had the same shifting issues on the last rebuild AWD tranny I had. They're just stiff at first and need to be driven to loosen things up. It is shifting fine now. Clutch engagement is only a couple inches up off the floor but so far as I can tell that just seems to be the way these cars are. It would be nice if it was more in the middle.

Looking good bro, my clutch engages the same as yours, i've had mine for going for 6 months now and i'm still nearly stalling it on occasion

I've got my block, head and rocker cover all painted with high heat gloss black and i'm the same as "shadow19", havn't had any problems with overheating, in fact i'm struggling to even keep my car at temperature

very nice build though mate

Got the A/C fans wired to turn on with the A/C system now. I guess I didn't mention it but I've switched over to using a radiator out of a 90-91 Eclipse. It's all metal and has the sensor for tripping the fans right where I want it to be. I'm using the 95 radiator cap/feed off the thermostat housing. The 1GA DSM radiator is narrower by two inches and shorter by an inch but it is thicker by 3/8 so ends up being a larger volume radiator anyway. It meant some funky fabrication to get the Galant fans on though. I would have used the 1GA fans but they are too thick and the A/C fan hit the turbo.

To get the fans working I ended up jumping a pair of wires on the underside of the under hood relay/fuse box. I took the ECU trigger wires from the low speed relays of both fans and jumped them to pin 1 (I think) of the A/C relay. Now both fans kick on at low speed as soon as the A/C turns on. I'm not sure how the fans will like it when they need to kick to high speed and they're still getting a low speed signal too but I'll find out! Incidentally, for those who don't know, the ECU trips the fans by grounding the relays. The sensor in the bottom of the 1gA radiator does the same thing so that was very strait forward to wire into the high speed relays of both fans.

The cruise control still doesn't work. I'll need to dig through the wiring diagrams again to see what's going on with that.

I've also found an oil leak already! It's coming from the oil filter housing. I can't tell exactly where. I'll need to take the cooling sandwich out and replace the seal in there and see if that does the trick. I would have already but I don't have a socket or trustworthy wrench to do it with. The last thing I want to do is have a wrench slip off and scratch the seat for the oil filter.

7g, have you replaced your thermostat? My car warms up within a few miles of driving it and holds temperature really well.