Warning long post! Brakes help please!!!

Ok here we go. I recently replaced my rotors and brake pads,,,as well as painting my calipers, put on new brake line copper washers(as I disconnected them so I could paint the calipers off the car) and completely flushing/bleeding the entire system at all 4 wheels TWICE! to remove ALL air bubbles. I took my good old time doing everything from start to finish,,,putting everything back exactly the way it came off and referring to the Haynes repair manual for bleeding the brakes and the torque requirements for every bolt that was removed. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I know without a shadow of a doubt that every component was installed properly(this was not my first brake job).
So after the job was finished I took the car out for a test drive and noticed that I heard the brake pads contacting the rotor(when the brakes were NOT depressed). I figured they just had to break in a little bit, because the brake pedal felt firm,,,and the fluid was at the correct level,,,so I left it go at that.
Moving on to today,,,,,First let me say that I live in a very hilly region,,,lots of STEEP hills,,,,,anyways I was out running errands for about an hour,,and afterwards I drove back home (down in the valley)and I felt the brakes give a little and make a weird sound. After that I stopped at the car wash. As soon as the water hit my front wheels steam began pouring off of them! I was like WTF! I reached down and touched my steelie rim and it was really hot,,,so I touched the caliper,,which was even hotter. Then I made the mistake of touching the rotor(I know I'm an idiot),,,it was so hot that it burned the shit out of my finger,,,even after it was soaked with water! My whole setup was HOT AS SHIT! Now, let me explain that while I was prepping the calipers for paint I completely examined them and all the rubber boots and piston seals,,,they all looked just fine. I wire brushed the shit outta them and cleaned them thoroughly before paint. I'm saying all this because I don't think that the piston could be seized or stuck in the caliper bore,,,and not be letting off the pads when the brakes are not in use. The piston compressed easily back into the bore when I was installing the brake pads. If it's not the piston getting stuck what the hell could it be? The only other thing I could think of is to take the shims off of the brake pads and put everything back together without them. Someone please help me cool down my brakes!!!!!!!!! END OF BOOK:shock:

Brakes getting hot as hell isn't uncommon, they retain heat, when I had my steelies I had the same hot steelie syndrome, so I don't find it wierd at all, anytime I wash my car right after I park it my brakes send up a ton of steam, and it's not like my brake fluid is boiling, the brakes are just retaining heat. Also, could you clarify what you meant by gave a little? Did the pedal get spongy, requiring excess pressure to stop, or what? Did you repeatedly stop from high speeds from a short period of time? You could have just had some brake fade from the fact that you had to brake a lot in the hilly regions that you drive in. I'm assuming you installed everything correctly, also, did you ever have this problem before you did your brake replacement? I had a similar problem when I installed my brembos with the pads touching the rotor, but then I redid it and realized my pads weren't sitting as far back in the caliper as they should be, that's the only thing mechanically that would cause excessive heat, continuous friction between the pads and rotors.

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Originally Posted by greddy

Brakes getting hot as hell isn't uncommon, they retain heat, when I had my steelies I had the same hot steelie syndrome, so I don't find it wierd at all, anytime I wash my car right after I park it my brakes send up a ton of steam, and it's not like my brake fluid is boiling, the brakes are just retaining heat. Also, could you clarify what you meant by gave a little? Did the pedal get spongy, requiring excess pressure to stop, or what? Did you repeatedly stop from high speeds from a short period of time? You could have just had some brake fade from the fact that you had to brake a lot in the hilly regions that you drive in. I'm assuming you installed everything correctly, also, did you ever have this problem before you did your brake replacement? I had a similar problem when I installed my brembos with the pads touching the rotor, but then I redid it and realized my pads weren't sitting as far back in the caliper as they should be, that's the only thing mechanically that would cause excessive heat, continuous friction between the pads and rotors.

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By "gave a little" I mean that when I came to my last stop before the car wash, it felt like I had to push the pedal a little harder than the normal "stop on a dime" feel that I had before. It kinda felt a little like when ABS first kicks in...even though I don't have ABS. I agree with you that the only thing that would cause excessive heat would be continuous friction between the pads and rotors. Although it is possible the caliper piston is not letting off the pads when the brakes aren't being depressed,,,,,,I just highly doubt it for the reasons stated before. The new brake pads came with shims, but they were completely different than the OE ones,,,,,so I put the old "OE" shims on the new pads and installed them. I think I'm going to start by taking off the brake pad shims and putting things back together without them. I never had this problem before I changed my rotors and pads.

are the caliper pins properly greased? too little grease and the caliper won't slide. too much grease and caliper can't slide.

i'm sure it was bleed the right way right from farthest to closest to the brake master cylinder, sounds like you could use some brake cooling ducts, was the new rotors and Pads bed it? i usually bed the rotors and pads in when i swap them out on both rx7 and 3g, never gave me an issue yet, just some thought

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Originally Posted by pinoyesv6

are the caliper pins properly greased? too little grease and the caliper won't slide. too much grease and caliper can't slide.

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Yes, I wiped off all the old grease from the pins, and re-greased them thoroughly with lithium grease.

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Originally Posted by DaveMitsubishi

i'm sure it was bleed the right way right from farthest to closest to the brake master cylinder, sounds like you could use some brake cooling ducts, was the new rotors and Pads bed it? i usually bed the rotors and pads in when i swap them out on both rx7 and 3g, never gave me an issue yet, just some thought

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I bled them in accordance with the Haynes repair manual, Rear passenger, Front driver, Rear driver, Front passenger. And Yes I bed in the pads when I took it for the first test drive.

I'm going to check things out right now,and see what happens when I get rid of the shims.:mad:

try bleeding it from Rear Passenger, Rear Driver, Front passenger then Last Front driver

Well, I took off the shims to no avail. I double cheched everything(guide and lock pins,grease,caliper piston,torque values,everything),,the pads aren't wearing unevenly but the rotors look like they've been scorched a little from the heat. Took it for a short test drive and it is still getting hot as hell. I noticed coming down hills,,,I got a little vibration in the brake pedal,,,and it made a noise....kind of like a "VWOOOOOMMMP,,,,,,,like if you were sliding a large table over a wooden floor. WTF! I can't even touch the lugnuts more than 2 or 3 seconds before I have to pull my finger away. And, obviously,,,the calipers and rotors are way hotter,,,,Still! I guess I'll try bleeding the entire system again tomorrow,in the sequence of furthest wheel to closest wheel to the master cylinder. I don't understand how the brake fluid would be causing my problem though. If I don't figure it out, I'm going to just run them as is for a week or two and see if they might "break in" a little and stop all this bullshit. Any other suggestions?

brake issues i'm not sure, what kinda pads are you using? metalic? ceramic?, if the brake pedal vibrates while braking rotors could be slghtly warped, since thats where vibration comes from on the pedel if your braking only,

I'm running Wearever semi-metallics (I can't afford better pads right now)
as for the rotors being warped...they are brand new R1's....although I'm sure the car wash didn't help the other day(hot ass rotor meets cold ass water:shock:,,,but I didn't know they were that hot until I sprayed them and a bunch of steam started pouring out))

i had the same problem bro till i changed my pads.your pistons arent sticking ot anything just wak pads. try to do somthing to just get better ones whether u have to borrow money or whatever but its definately the pads

yeah try different pads, but try my order of bleeding and see if that gets rid of your brake pedal feel since the rears are connected in that order with the brake proportioning valve for the rear that split them so doing the rears first would be best then the method you did them in and then the 2nd longest line would be the passenger side and the shortest hardline would be the drivers right next to the brake master cylinder, i had brembos on my 3G and i bleed them that way and also all other cars i own and never had any issues

I'm gonna re-bleed them all tomorrow and see what happens. If it's still garbage I'll get different pads. Thanks for the help guys.

i had mine flushed man didnt help u can still do it if u want but youll be wasting energy.rebleeding will just make your pedal stiffer if u didnt do it right last time

I have a quick question. Check out this picture....the small clips in the upper right hand corner,,,where do they go/what are they for? They were not anywhere on my old/stock brake setup. I got these little clips with the brake pads I have on now,,,but like I said,,,,,the old setup didn't have them,,,so I didn't use them. I thought they just gave me the wrong hardware with my brake pads. If they are important,,,,could someone post a pic on how they're installed? I'd shit myself if that was the problem all along.
http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/p...ochieboy/6.jpg

i had the same problem with those same pad take them back to autozone and and get the ceramics

those small pieces are for your brake pads, its to let you know when your brake pads are wearing out, it'll make them squeek, they are installed along the top or bottom of the pad around the Tab piece that holes your brake pads in place, but since Jimmy_02 chimed in and says he had the same problem then u might as well try better pads

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Originally Posted by jimmy_o2

i had the same problem with those same pad take them back to autozone and and get the ceramics

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You're talking about the wearever semi-metallics right?

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Originally Posted by DaveMitsubishi

those small pieces are for your brake pads, its to let you know when your brake pads are wearing out, it'll make them squeek, they are installed along the top or bottom of the pad around the Tab piece that holes your brake pads in place, but since Jimmy_02 chimed in and says he had the same problem then u might as well try better pads

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I still have the old ceramic (Original Equipment I guess) pads that I took off. I just figured I'd replace the brake pads when I did the rotors and painted the calipers...just for the hell of it. My question is,,,since the old pads aren't worn,,,could I put them back on? They're not worn uneven or anything,,,I just didn't know if I could (or should)put them back on with new rotors. They still have PLENTY of pad left on them. If that's the case it'd save me on having to buy brand new ceramic pads. :confused: Also,,do you have any pics of how that little tab thingy gets installed?

if your las set of rotors were warped then the old pads will warp the new set quick those wear tabs should already be on the pads and once again it has nothin to do with your problem why are you making this so difficult????get different pads or deal with the heat

heres a pic of the tabs and they Should already be on the pads machine riveted on, this is just a general brake pad i got on-line but thats how its on the pad

http://www.atozmotorspares.co.uk/sup...mintexpads.jpg

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Originally Posted by boochieboy

You're talking about the wearever semi-metallics right?

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Yep if i remeber correctly there where 10 or 20 dollars at autozone with lifetime warranty take them back you should still be able to get ur money back if u just bought them u can still use ur old pads if they still have life just for the mean time till u get better pads

I have the Axxis And R1 combo the braking power is alot better

axxis pads yeap those are one of the better pads and worth the money i alternate pads depending on what i feel like but i usually get Porterfields or some EBC, but EBC greens have a certain i dunno how you say it but if you run someone and decide to brake really hard after the run u can smell the pads, smells like babypowder sort of haha, just my 2 cents on pads i normally use on the 3g and Rx7

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Originally Posted by g-ridda

if your las set of rotors were warped then the old pads will warp the new set quick those wear tabs should already be on the pads and once again it has nothin to do with your problem why are you making this so difficult????get different pads or deal with the heat

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I'm not making things difficult,,,,first of all,,,,the wear tabs are NOT on the pads,,,they came completely separate from the pads,,,and if I don't know about something then I'm going to ask(isn't that what these forums are for?). I also just asked about re-using the old pads because it's kind of hard to afford shit when you just got laid off and have no money.

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Originally Posted by DaveMitsubishi

heres a pic of the tabs and they Should already be on the pads machine riveted on, this is just a general brake pad i got on-line but thats how its on the pad
http://www.atozmotorspares.co.uk/sup...mintexpads.jpg

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Ok, thanks for the pic,,,now I know:)

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Originally Posted by jimmy_o2

Yep if i remeber correctly there where 10 or 20 dollars at autozone with lifetime warranty take them back you should still be able to get ur money back if u just bought them u can still use ur old pads if they still have life just for the mean time till u get better pads

I have the Axxis And R1 combo the braking power is alot better

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Yeah, I got them at Advance,,,I think they were like 21 dollars. I'm going to try and return them.

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Originally Posted by DaveMitsubishi

axxis pads yeap those are one of the better pads and worth the money i alternate pads depending on what i feel like but i usually get Porterfields or some EBC, but EBC greens have a certain i dunno how you say it but if you run someone and decide to brake really hard after the run u can smell the pads, smells like babypowder sort of haha, just my 2 cents on pads i normally use on the 3g and Rx7

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Thanks for the suggestions and info on those pads. Right now I'm probably going to try and get a set of Duralast Gold Ceramics from AutoZone,,,,just because I can get them right away and don't have to order them online.

no dont get those stay away from autozone pads

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Originally Posted by jimmy_o2

no dont get those stay away from autozone pads

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What would you suggest then? I need brake pads NOW!

If you need something now I havent had any issues with Monroe, but I would really just order some axxis and call it a day

ill tell u this anything is better then autozone pads

the store u whent 2 should have dif brands if not then go to a dif store pepboys sell some cheap pads and there not that bad

napa

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Originally Posted by 03-Galant-ES

If you need something now I havent had any issues with Monroe, but I would really just order some axxis and call it a day

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Thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by jimmy_o2

ill tell u this anything is better then autozone pads

the store u whent 2 should have dif brands if not then go to a dif store pepboys sell some cheap pads and there not that bad

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Advance only has Wearever and I think wagner. What's so bad about Duralast's?

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Originally Posted by g-ridda

napa

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Sucks for me,,,there's no NAPA stores anywhere around here,,,all we got is Advance, AutoZone,Firestone,,,we don't even have a Pepboys!

then go to firestone