Anyone out there know if either one of the 7g o2 sensors are wide band like a honda or subaru? I need the FOR SURE awnser so i know if i have to get the wideband with my a/f guage or not
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Anyone out there know if either one of the 7g o2 sensors are wide band like a honda or subaru? I need the FOR SURE awnser so i know if i have to get the wideband with my a/f guage or not
define "wide band".
because in all my years of working on cars, this is the first time ive heard that statement.
O2 sensors by design max their output at about 1 volt.
if u dont know the difference between a wide band o2 and one thats not then u arent who i need to be talking to..a wide band o2 has a greater range of measurability than a standard one..it can read air fuel ratios from the bottom of the scale to the top instead of just a few volts right in the middle
what kind of a/f guage?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>if u dont know the difference between a wide band o2 and one thats not then u arent who i need to be talking to..</div>
Actually he would probably know more about it than any of us, he is a Mitsubishi Tech. and has been for what Manybrews 11 years now?
then he should know what a wideband o2 is...i mean it is a pretty basic term.. probably im gonna use an autometer air fuel guage
I am pretty sure its not wideband. And Manybrews is the man when it come to Mitsu's considering he's been working for them for years.
then unless you have a broken 02 sensor you need to replace it doesnt matter
all you need to do is wire it up assuming you use the autometer guage
dude i KNOW what im talking about...it has nothing to do with the sensor being bad..any of u know someone with a ford that has an autometer air fuel guage? if u do go watch it sometime...it bounces around so much u can get any kind of reading off the guage..this is due to the fact that the ford o2 isnt wideband...thats why im trying to find out of mine is or not...im not gonna get the guage unless we have one
like i said all you need to do is wire it up.
i know because i have one in my car.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>if u dont know the difference between a wide band o2 and one thats not then u arent who i need to be talking to..a wide band o2 has a greater range of measurability than a standard one..it can read air fuel ratios from the bottom of the scale to the top instead of just a few volts right in the middle</div>
umm... ALL O2 sensors read from 0 volts to about 900 mv.
that it. there are no "wideband" sensors that read anything else on american cars.
and ALL O2 sensors "bounce around". the systems are, and always HAVE BEEN designed to crosscount about 5 to 10 times a second.
there are none that just sit in the middle.
There are Wideband o2 sensors 0-5v outputs not 0-1 so there not for stock ECM. They are more precise then stock o2 and normally for aftermarket controllers like Haltech, AEM.
I have read that for tuning purposes with stock ECM's you would weld a second bung on your downpipe and install the wideband o2 that just sits there only to be used by your dyno tuners equiptment to get acurate readings, or you can do the same and buy an aftermarket wideband o2 gauge, but you'll still need your stock o2 sensor for your ECM.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JiP)</div><div class='quotemain'>There are Wideband o2 sensors 0-5v outputs not 0-1 so there not for stock ECM. Â*They are more precise then stock o2 and normally for aftermarket controllers like Haltech, AEM. Â*
.</div>
hell, it wouldnt make any difference. Percentage wise, the numbers will corelate exactly. meaning .5 volts on a normal sensor would probably equate to 2.5 volts on one of these aftermarket "wide" sensors, thereby eliminating its usefullness as a device.
more than likely, these sensors are just normal O2 sensors with voltage amplifying circuits installed that increases output by x amount.
Your right. Its more like steps in analog to digital conversion for you electronics geeks) 128bit is much better then 8bit. You have more precision, but basically its all relative.
dont you guys hate it when somebody gets on the board and automatically has a bad attitude towards everyone? i hate that :doubleup:
o2 is SUPOSED to bounce around in closed loop mode. The ECM is constant adjusting a/f ratio based on its reading on its last reading of the o2, and lets say the ECM operates at a conservative 10mhz, that means along with its other duties its sampling probably 50,000 times a second and performing adjustments, you think your gonna see the o2 steady?
Its steady only at openloop mode wich for the most part is when your flooring it. A wideband o2 will fluctate also in closed loop mode because its closed loop ECM is adjusting not just blindly dumping fuel like it pretty much does in open loop.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X7eyeHATEyou7X)</div><div class='quotemain'>dont you guys hate it when somebody gets on the board and automatically has a bad attitude towards everyone? Â*i hate that Â*:doubleup:</div>
This from the man with the name "I hate you" LMAO everytime I see your name and that avatar I crack up laughing. Good job! :laughing: :laughing:
hehe true huh....
oh my god manybrews it has nothing to do with frequency...it reads from a certain air fuel ratio to another..some can only go in a narrow band some can go in a wide band...why do u think horiba air fuel meters are 1000 dollars huh? because they use WIDEBAND o2 sensors...i dont have a bad attitude i just hate misinformation
and as far as the meter being steady i know its steady at wide open throttle if u have an air fuel guage and bounces around at part throttle..just go watch one on a mustang or lightning then youll know what im talking about
and as far as the meter being steady i know its steady at wide open throttle if u have an air fuel guage and bounces around at part throttle..just go watch one on a mustang or lightning then youll know what im talking about
hey eye hate u i checke dout the pics of your car..i dig white ones...thats the good ole ebay trunk mod...got a list of exactly what u bought to do it? the instructions are too vauge
You dont need a wideband o2 its not going to do anything for you and just end it there. It isnt going to do anything for you except make you do is waste some cash and a lot more work to install a THIRD o2 sensor and seperate meter for what? Get a digital a/f guage not the boucy light one and use ur stock sensor readings they are more acurate then you may think.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>oh my god manybrews it has nothing to do with frequency...it reads from a certain air fuel ratio to another..some can only go in a narrow band some can go in a wide band...why do u think horiba air fuel meters are 1000 dollars huh? Â*because they use WIDEBAND o2 sensors...i dont have a bad attitude Â* i just hate misinformation</div>
you dont seem to know what im talking about, and i certainly have no idea what youre talking about, being as your posts are kind of incomplete..
regardless. There is no "misinformation" here. youre asking strange questions in which you give no definition of your terms, and expect people to know what youre talking about?
look, i not sure you really know how an O2 sensor works in relation to an automobile. There are NO manufacturers using any type of "wideband" O2 sensors on any car in america, as by physical makeup an O2 sensor as we know it is incapable of delivering more than about a volt. period.
adding voltage amplifiers to the circuitry would be pointless, as it would be no more accurate than a standard sensor. It would just have a higher output.
to end all this, you do NOT have a "wideband" oxygen sensor on your galant. Its maximum output is about 1 volt.
Both zirconia and titania oxygen sensors have been installed in USA vehicles for about 20 years. Their purpose is generally known by those who professionally deal with tune-ups and emissions.
Honda introduced the wide band oxygen sensor in the early 1990's. NTK (an NGK Spark Plugs Company) produced the Honda version, with agreements that availability would be limited to Honda dealerships.
There are wideband oxygen sensor versions available in the aftermarket.
I would be more than willing to offer information about any oxygen sensor (zirconia, titania, and wide band).
NGKAZ
NGKAZ
NGK SPARK PLUG (USA), INC.
should i keep going? i can send more if u want
Common AFR Meters
Common dash mounted AFR meters make use of one, three or four wire factory installed oxygen sensors which are incapable of providing a wideband output. These sensors, by design, will read a high voltage with an air/fuel mixture below stoichiometric (14.7:1) and a low voltage above this point. Outside this narrow operating range, the meter has no way of accurately and reliably differentiating between 12:1 and 13:1, or conversely, 15:1 and 18:1. These readings are also greatly affected by exhaust gas temperature and sensor location. A 2:1 ratio variation is not uncommon. It is important to remember that automobile manufacturers installed these sensors to maintain a stoichiometric (14.7:1) mixture under cruising conditions, as this is the point where optimum catalytic converter efficiency is achieved.
courtesy of fjo enterprises..check out some of the stuff on there
http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive/index.htm
i guess that didn't end it https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...ault/laugh.gif :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
here is an actual link to super street installing one on an Si civic
http://www.superstreetonline.com/techartic...1518/index.html
thats a lot of fancy "cutting and pasting", but you actually posted exactly what i said.
that no american car is using any "wide-band" O2 sensors. The Honda incident is for one of their special lean-burn cars, no longer sold in america.
there is no reason to currently install such a sensor in any american car due to our emission regulations and fuel control systems, hence the reason the manufacturers dont need to publish information about them.
and trust me, i know all about how an O2 sensor works without having to search the net.
i was just showing you proof of what a wide band is mister ive never heard of one...man u just dont know when to say when do ya? THATS exactly why i dont trust dealers with performace applications...stick to installing those little factory air filters and such and quit trying to denounce someone as if you're smarter..ya might learn a thing or two :shock:
I happen to own a plot of land on the moon interested in purchasing it from me?
I know how a wideband o2 works, and the difference between it and a normal o2. Are you planning on building a 500+hp DSM? Are you running 30lbs of boost and 850cc injectors? You dont need a wideband o2.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>i was just showing you proof of what a wide band is mister ive never heard of one...man u just dont know when to say when do ya? Â*THATS exactly why i dont trust dealers with performace applications...stick to installing those little factory air filters and such and quit trying to denounce someone as if you're smarter..ya might learn a thing or two :shock:</div>
you know what actually funny? that you or ANYONE would tune an engine using ANY O2 sensor, wideband or not.
have fun spending the cash on something as useless as an air/fuel meter, because those of us in the know would never use anything less than an actual gas analyzer to do that.
any speed shop mapping fuel trims with an O2 sensor isnt worth a dime.
oh and as far as american sold cars tell that to my buddy with a 2001 subaru 2.5RS with a 2003 wrx swap done..DEALER INSTALLED 165 hours of wiring labor and from the 18 year veteran subaru tech's mouth"i went ahead and hooked up your air fuel guage to your second oxygen sensor..they are wide band so your guage will be spot on
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>oh and as far as american sold cars tell that to my buddy with a 2001 subaru 2.5RS with a 2003 wrx swap done..DEALER INSTALLED 165 hours of wiring labor and from the 18 year veteran subaru tech's mouth"i went ahead and hooked up your air fuel guage to your second oxygen sensor..they are wide band so your guage will be spot on</div>
well, gosh! i thought dealers werent worth a shit when it comes to performance.
i guess i would call that "hypocritical" to say you wouldnt trust them, but then use that as an example.
with the combination of a wide band oxygen sensor and an EGT guage you CANT GET ANYMORE ACCURATE..W.T.F. do you think DYNOJET uses widebands on ALL of their dynos??? i guess now dyno jet doesnt know what they are talking about...or anyone who uses one? which lets see is just about everyone
notice i said MY BUDDY'S SUBARU
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>i was just showing you proof of what a wide band is mister ive never heard of one...man u just dont know when to say when do ya? Â*THATS exactly why i dont trust dealers with performace applications...stick to installing those little factory air filters and such and quit trying to denounce someone as if you're smarter..ya might learn a thing or two :shock:</div>
When it comes to Mitsubishi cars I could pretty much guarantee Many knows more then most of us. He may not know everysingle stupid performance item, and may not agree with half of my glue and tape methods of fixing things..but I still respect his input, I know he knwos what he is talking about because its his profession. It still remains that your just going to waste money on this if you buy it. Its not gona make u fast and furious. :roll: https://www.thegalantcenter.org/styl...lt/biggrin.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>with the combination of a wide band oxygen sensor and an EGT guage you CANT GET ANYMORE ACCURATE..W.T.F. do you think DYNOJET uses widebands on ALL of their dynos??? i guess now dyno jet doesnt know what they are talking about...or anyone who uses one? which lets see is just about everyone</div>
yes, you can. you use an actual 5 gas analyzer, like a real speed shop would.
see, the O2 level is not the only gas to watch. HC, N, CO, and CO2 are as important if not moreso.
but i forgot.. with the 1 car or so that youve worked on (compared to the 9000 or so i have), you probably know your stuff.
and they actually have a separate wing at the dealership for nothing but performance so its just not some oil changing grease monkey runnin around spoutin out shit on stuff he doesnt know about
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4g64terror)</div><div class='quotemain'>and they actually have a separate wing at the dealership for nothing but performance so its just not some oil changing grease monkey runnin around spoutin out shit on stuff he doesnt know about</div>
funny, we kinda got a few cars like that, too.
ever heard of any of them?
the starion
the cordia turbo
the mirage turbo
the eclipse turbo
the 3000 GT (twin turbo, of course)
the lancer EVO.
none of these are popular to hot rod, are they? Im sure ive never made 300 HP eclipses or starions..