Need some info form the 8g turbo owners.

I installed the turbo last week and tuned it right in. The Galant has been running absolutely outstanding! I Flashed the ECU and barely need my AFC NEO until around 4500 RPM. I have been running the cam at a 2 degree advance, with the ITC retarding the ignition timing 3 degrees anywhere past 4500 (until I get to a dyno). No knock, leaks, over-boost, MAF issues (from the BOV), idle problems, transmission slip (auto), leaning at WOT. The G is so fast I am a little shaky after I bring it home from playing. I really want to see the power I am putting down, I am hoping like 215-235. I am not using the AVC yet and want to make sure all is solid before I push the boost to 10 psi. I am running a STEADY 7.5 psi, where I thought I might run into problems because I plumbed the exhaust myself (from turbo to after cat). The automatic transmission is great at keeping the acceleration and boost while shifting, which is smooth. I do not even need to downshift into 3rd to clime hills or just general acceleration. Just lay the pedal to 20% throttle position and it takes off.

My only concern out of everything is my exhaust gas temperature. At idle the EGT is around 900-1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Low load and coasting, it is around 1200-1600F. At full boost it rises to around 1700F and gets no hotter. Is this normal? I found no posts on EGT for boosted Galants (mine a 2003 4G64 8G) and want to know what you guys are running. I am ordering a turbo timer some time this week and have been letting the car idle to 900-1000F until I turn the engine off. I am running a high flow catalytic converter and am passing the OBD II emissions test on my code reader. Could the cat make things hotter?

I am running the car at 10 AFR to keep things as cool as possible and am running through gas like mad (270 miles a tank). I set the AFC to enrich anywhere past 25%TP/4500 RPM because of the high heat weather we have been having here. I will wait for the advice of the dyno operator on this because of the high EGT.

Please get back to me on the EGT, or any questions you may have and thank you in advance.

First off where is the egt probe mounted???
I still say those temps are alittle high for idle....i'm around 300c...which is 580f...so something might not be right...I would look at getting it tuned casue it could be trouble if you keep running hot!!!

My egt guage read up to 1600F you must have a 1200c egt gauge. Anyway to answer you question it should be 1000f at idle and 1550f max at wot. At cruse it should be around 1350f at 3000 rpm. BTW your probe should be mounted on the # 1 cylinder runner on the exhaust manifold about 6-8 inches from the head.

Sleepervr-4 Thank you for the info!

I mounted the EGT probe in the middle of the collector before the turbo (and will get filled and re-tapped). The gauge goes up to 2400F, with a variance of like 3-400 degrees because of the large scale it sweeps (I was intending on the gauge to be installed on Dads F350).

The instructions are showing a turbo manifold and the sensor mounted right in the collector.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...4_221_full.jpg

I ran a Fluke industrial strap-on temperature sensor on the number one cylinder and am running closer to sleeperVR-4 numbers, although it is running at 1200F at cruse at 3000 RPM.

Instead of measuring a single fire cycle I am measuring all 4, no wonder!

How about the catalyst? How much do you think this would add to the temp?

I appreciate the advice leicoolya and intend on dino’ing it within the next week. But what’s with sounding like my father? The phrase “first off” would imply more than one question or some sort of an unbearable frustration in my “only” situation. If this is bothering you just skip it and don’t answer. This information is invaluable in turbo-charging a Galant and it is not really covered in any of the forums (where mounting is an issue). Coming off like that might make someone looking in to boosting their G change their mind or resent the TGC forum altogether. Sorry about the lecture, but that was not quite the response I wanted when I welcomed all follow-up questions.

Aww did I make you upset :roll: If you or anyone gets upset from what anyone posts on a forum you need to grow up. And if a post makes you not want to turbo your car you need to get the fuck out, who cares what anyone has to say on any car forum, you do what you want. Your going run into alot bigger assholes then me, trust me. So sorry if i made you sad, SON :D

^x2, I dont see how his responce got you all hyped. He simply asked wheres its mounted. Boy I hope you dont go to club3g like leicoolya said " thiers alot bigger assholes then me"..

holy shit Quasimodo... who has their panties in a bunch?! Haha, but in all honesty mtcavity1, don't take thing so personal, on TGC were like family, and we can and will bash each other like so, but on the other hand we will graciously complement each other when they do something well and do it right. I read leicoolya's response, and I find nothing offensive about it... so calm down a little bit, and be ready to take criticism when it truly comes. Also, keep in mind, if you ask a stupid question, you will get a stupid answer, so as an idea, make sure you search all resources before asking something here. Im not saying the question you asked here was a bad question, I am just telling you for future references so if, and when you do ask a stupid question you wont get so offended.

Like everyone else has already said, you are running a little too hot, but that could also be a result of the EGT sensor lmounted in the incorrect location. The reason the sensor needs to go in cylinder#1 is because its the last cylinder in line on the fuel rail. If you start to loose pressure or flow, and start to lean out its gonna happen at cylinder#1 first. You said your running 10AFR, where did you get that # from? Is that what you set the target AFR to in your tune or is that reading from a wideband o2 sensor? AFR #'s dont mean anything unless they are coming from a wideband sensor that is mounted in the correct location.

Stewi, I used Innovative Wideband feedback for the AFRs, which reflect the flash I performed. I understand that the AFR map is a target, and have made sure that the targets were reached using the appropriate fuel/air map changes. Everything else is copasetic and running in check with all the other info posted in TGC.

The manufacturer needs to update the installation instructions because of the false readings on their suggested sensor mounting position. The Fluke temperature meter is reading no higher than 1350 at WOT which is a more realistic figure. I am purchasing a more reliable EGT gauge and sensor this week and remounting as suggested.

Leicoolya (Dad) you did not upset me, or I would have ignored your advice. Nor do I consider you to be an “asshole”. Just that the following post cleared up more of the issue and informed me WHY my EGT readings were high, than leading to believe that the issue was with a bad tune (in the IM like response). If it is any consolation, I got pulled over for speeding (52 in a 45, which is technically speeding) and found out what a real father-like asshole was. Officer Miller’s went on for 15 minutes on how speed kills especially on the holidays. So karma reared is ugly head to bite me in the ass once again, making this situation pale in comparison.

Kwikfox… Who told you about my panties?!

No harm no foul here bro :D Got to watch for the cops for sure, the speed will get you in trouble

[quote="mtcavity1"]Stewi, I used Innovative Wideband feedback for the AFRs, which reflect the flash I performed. I understand that the AFR map is a target, and have made sure that the targets were reached using the appropriate fuel/air map changes. Everything else is copasetic and running in check with all the other info posted in TGC.quote]

Thats good, but, the actual #'s you were talking about when the car was running hot, did you have a wideband hooked up at that time? Or was the wideband only used to create your tune. You have to understand that there are little variables like ambient air temperature and humidity which often play a role in your AFR. So lets say you tuned the car on a 95 degree day with 80% humidity and now its 70 degrees and 50% humidity. The intake air charge will be more dense, causing it to lean out a little bit. Not to the point of detonation unless the temp change is very drastic, but enough to make it run a little hot. I understand you made changes to your map to reach your goals for AFR, but just because it did it once doesnt mean it always works that way. I am not doubting your knowledge or abilities, but I know this from first hand failures. I had a $1500 standalone in my car and my tune was awesome when it was 75 degrees, then when It went down to 55 degrees it still worked good, but it was a little off. That was with a standalone that is made to make self adjustments on the fly, the thing is, a computer is a computer, its not perfect, if they were perfect, there would be no such things as tuners because everyone would use their auto tune feature on their standalone.

congrates mt -- hows ur partial throttle in closed loop??

Yes, I ran it 3 different occasions with the same results. Tonight was cold and ran it again, with a .3 enleanment in only the higher RPMs (above 4500). I have been keeping the WOT runs to a minimum until I have someone qualified (and in person) to make sure all is truly well. I know how to tune an NA or a turbo upgrade, but this is completely different. The turbo changed the dynamics of the engine so much. It would take me 10-20 flashes to get it close to a more fuel efficient tune. All the “tuning” I have done is force it to run it rich at boost to cover any disasters from running too lean or hot.

I will have to wait until the new EGT gets here to get a reading that is absolutely true, with the dynoing to follow.

How about the catalyst? Anyone have one, then take it off for performance and notice a change?

I’ll get back to you with new EGT numbers when I install the new unit.

Stewi, I am plowing though your posts and if you know anything in particular that you have not posted previously, let me know. You have been helpful in about everything I have ever posted and appreciate it

What plugs are you running? What size injectors? What FPR? If your running a fully adjustable FPR. what is your base pressure without a vacuum source connected? Im guessing you have some sort of walbro pump already. What type of intercooler do you have, what are the dimensions? I am not too familiar with ECU flashing, but if there is some way to monitor air intake temp, I am interested to see the air temp in the manifold versus ambient air temp. Do you have access to a wideband right now? The reason I ask is because it's nice to compare wideband readings to EGT readings. Case in point, if your doing WOT runs and your EGT is higher then you think is right but your Wideband is between 10 and 11:1 the entire time, you know that either your EGT sensor sucks, or sensor location sucks. I know this from experience since the guy who did my exhaust/downpipe a few years ago mounted the EGT bung right in the downpipe just after the turbo. I was getting all types of screwed up readings but my AFR was dead on the money with the wideband when I was on the dyno. From the way you sounded, it sounds like you have access to a wideband but you dont actually have one in the car full time. I would forget about getting a new EGT and just buy a wideband kit. They can be had fairly cheap both new and used. Only word of advice is STAY AWAY FROM AEM WIDEBANDS. I like AEM's other stuff, but they shit the bed when they made their widebands. You can get a PLX wideband kit for like $275 shipped which includes an AFR display module. PLX kinda flies under the radar, they arent extemely popular, but I know a bunch of people with EVO's and DSM's using them and they have all good things to say, plus a few of them cars are making 600+WHP and getting beat on every single day.

I dont know PA too well, but if your not too far from NJ, I would get in touch with Sean Ivey to tune your car. He is the best tuner on the east coast, period. He does standalones and Mitsu reflash tuning. It would probably run you about $300-$400 to get it done, but your car would be perfect. He is really a class act that guy.

Plugs are Autolite copper core, one degree colder gaped at .29 (I have read .25 - .35 and shot for the middle). I am running 450cc/min (@43.5psi rail pressure) Lucas injectors. TRE performance 255lph fuel pump with a high amp relay and 14ga power supply wire. OBX 4G63t fuel rail. OBX adjustable FPR (purchased 3 years ago) set to 52psi, and I keep the vacuum connected to keep it from running rich at idle and cruising. I found running lower psi throws off the AFR (leaner) compared to the targets on the ECU, with higher values doing the same (richer). 6”x27”x2.5” bar and plate 3G Eclipse FMIC, which under boost dropped the air temperature by 15-20 degrees on log (sometimes 30 if I am moving).

You are correct on the wideband, only having the handheld. I will be getting the PLX! At that cost someone can AFFORD to leave it in. I have my cousin who tunes stock cars help me with the Innovative unit because he is familiar with it (and can monitor, as I drive), although carbureted is his style, not being much use in ECU tuning. The PLX unit looks no non-sense answer to wideband.

I was glad you shared your EGT story, check this out. I have the EGT mounted right in the middle of the collector, with the waste-gate port directly off to the side. The highest temperature rise was actually when the wastegate would open and vent the exhaust across the sensor. I would push the car to 7 lbs of boost and the EGT will sit around 1400F-1500F, but as soon as pushed the pedal to the point where the wastegate opens (7.5lbs) the exhaust temp jumped to near 1700F. All the while the Innovative AFR held steady at 11-10 at higher RPMs (3500-5500). To test this I set the AVC to 10 lbs and gave it some light 4th gear runs with the same temperature results with the highest temp pre-wastegate activation at 1550F and an AFR of high 10’s to low/mid 11’s. Again when I would push it to where the wastegate would initiate and the temp jumped to near 1700. I feel the sensor needs to be moved, and with the PLX wideband (in-car) will make tuning A LOT simpler. I should be able to log AFR with the PLX, getting the data-logging advantage.

One thing that is leaning the AFR out on the Galant is the AC system. If I have it on the AFR gets to high 11’s low 12’s, with the EGT at around 1550. Any suggestions?

Your question that you asked “is some way to monitor air intake temp”? Yes, it is “Air Temperature Compensation”, although I have not modified it at all YET. I will post some EVO Scan logs this week.

I am really interested in a tune from Sean Ivey with the Jersey border is like 25min away from me. Under $500 is a great price for a tune, especially if he is the best. PM me with a number or e-mail address.

Thanks again Stewi!

I think his website is like iveytune.com or something.

Put it to you this way. I called this dude up and asked how much to tune my AEM EMS. First thing he said is "Does the car run and drive? Is the map in it good enough just to drive around casually without boost?" I said yes, he says, great, it should take me more than 2 or 3 hours to tune it, it will cost about $400 with the dyno and wideband monitoring included. I have seen this guy extract extreme amounts of safe horsepower from EVO's both with EMS and with Flash. There are at least a dozen EVO's with flash that he has got making over 500whp on stock bottom ends that have lasted over 2 years and are still going.

in reference to temps i dont believe u can monitor temp after the mas --- so u will get the same air temps whether or not an intercooler is there and so on.. If u can do it without an aftermarket sensor please let me know...

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...4_216_full.jpg

Hey John,

I plumbed the MAF right before the throttle body to meter air, with the BOV before the MAF. The only air that is being metered is the air entering the engine, with my only major concern being that there would be pressure flux created by the BOV while backing off boost and there is NONE. I do not have to use the Deceleration Air setting on the AFC! I am actually amazed at how well this worked out and how fast the factory MAF compensates for boost and blow off. So when I log, it is the air temperature entering the manifold.

The way I see the intercooler creating a temperature drop is watching the cruising intake air temp. While there was always a drop in temperature as I would apply throttle, if I run under boost the temperature drops drastically. It depends on weather conditions of course, but pressurized air is cooled easier than ambient air with the IC. I have engine bay temp of at least 95F with an open element filter pushed to the “coolest” spot under the hood. I’ll send you some logs, but after the speeding ticket I have been driving like Grandma with a lead foot. The week of 4th of July, I found, is the worst week to try to 3rd gear pulls and 0-60 times with all of America on the roads.

This is in no way a definitive answer to IC efficiency, but I do see changes over my NA runs at higher RPMs. I would like to do what you mentioned (with aftermarket sensors) to get a more solid answer to what my IC efficiency is.

Did you ever try to run the MAF their?

The reason most people don't run the MAF after the turbo is because it isn't designed to work like that. It could actually end up messing up your sensor because of the boost pressure. You should look into getting a gm maf and maft because it will not only take the place of the sensor but you can also tune with it.

no i have never run my mas there as he said above... I would think if it was indeed able to run blow through then eclipses and evos would run it so so they can make the cool noises and such.. I dont think the mas will meter correctly with too much boost or boost at all.. I have not tested this out tho.. Do u have a chart or log for me yet ??? im curious what ur airflow is metering at?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laxinwarrior

The reason most people don't run the MAF after the turbo is because it isn't designed to work like that. It could actually end up messing up your sensor because of the boost pressure. You should look into getting a gm maf and maft because it will not only take the place of the sensor but you can also tune with it.

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you mean before the BOV right?

Sorry for the delayed response. And yes I was saying that the maf is designed to be plumbed in before the turbo and BOV and that is why your car won't run correctly unless you recirculate the air from the BOV.

I have added it to the list (GM MAF/Translator), and should have it within two weeks.

The car has been running fine, maybe because it is only 8.5psi it does not affect it as much. I am running 2 ½ inch piping with the 3 inch MAF maybe the flow is somehow controlled by the IC. But I could just imagine how my engine would handle the honeycomb material if sucked into the cylinder.

Thanks again for the info guys! Better now than a engine + MAFT later…

hey people can u help me to find a turbo for my 8g

Hey bro Congrats on the boost!! Im sorry to hear about your problem but it looks like your on your way... We have a similar setup and i think you will make the numbers your looking for and maybe more... What turbo are you running??? Also let me know what ECU Flash you did.. Im running an AFC NEO also and i Have JestrTuning working on my Ecu Flash but Around alot of forums they said the 8G couldnt be flashed cause it couldnt go past 100%.. I dont know too much about flashing but i would def appreciate the knowledge on your flash... My Main concern is retarding timing... I rather flash but if i see that flashing it wont get me much im switching over to AEM Fuel/Ignition controller.. Good luck

“What turbo are you running?”


JDM Motorsports (no name) T3/T4
A/R .42 compressor
A/R .48 turbine
38mm external wastegate 8.5lb spring
3G Eclipse turbo, tubular exhaust manifold
2 ½ in intake, 2 ½ in exhaust

I just received the REV-HARD casted EVO 8 manifold and am rebuilding a Hahn Racecraft Super 16G turbo.




“Also let me know what ECU Flash you did..”


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...antMapping.jpg
AFC NEO Throttle High/Low settings are Low-20% High -75%.
Fuel is increased at 2800 RPM and higher. From 1% up to 10% increase up to 6800 RPM depending on air temperatures (climate)/octane.

Boost is set to 9psi normally, but I have run 12psi to get an idea of the limits of the factory ECU.



“My Main concern is retarding timing”


I am using the APEX’i ITC (Ignition timing converter from Japan). It works great but causes a CEL on the cam/crank angle sensors due to a .3 volt variance. I use a jumper on the ITC harness to go to factory controls to get the emissions inspection, and do not WOT till I have it re-connected. I really do not need any major retarding, and actually advance the timing up to 3600 and work up to a -6deg at 7000 RPM. This all again, depends on the climate.

I feel some major factors of the factory ECU working in my case is the low boost, small compressor, 2 ½ in exhaust with catalyst and I keep it at 9.8 AFR at WOT.

Not going to dyno till the other manifold and turbo are installed and would really like to do the EVO ECU when it is all said and done.

I'm curious about how (or if) i have to retard/advance my cam when going turbo, or will i have to get a specific device to control the timing. :smt017

very nice.. Im excited to see what numbers u put out.. u gonna keep the t3/t4.. alot of guys dont get what they want out of the 16g.. Im hooking up with JestrTuning to Flash my Ecu for now and when i get home Im doing the 5spd Swap and going with the evo ecu.. Looks like your gonna put down nice numbers...Lets us know..

Sorry i didnt tell you about this sooner, but the revhard mani isnt gonna fit cory. you will need atleast 2x 1/2" spacers.

Aaron, have any of you guys had the chance to try the RevHard style DSM manifold but face the turbo towards the driver side?

i had a bad experience with revhard even getting my mani shipped. also, the mani has some slight casting cracks. I doubt I will try the dsm mani anymore. i have an xspower tubular t3 mani for a dsm on my car right now. not my first or 2nd choice, but i need to get my car running

That revhard mani is crap. I saw aarons yesturday and it had alot of cracks in the inner casting on the runners. Give it a couple of long highway pulls and they will start to go over to the outer casting.

btw aaron if you read this you sould be finishing your car :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stewi

I think his website is like iveytune.com or something.

Put it to you this way. I called this dude up and asked how much to tune my AEM EMS. First thing he said is "Does the car run and drive? Is the map in it good enough just to drive around casually without boost?" I said yes, he says, great, it should take me more than 2 or 3 hours to tune it, it will cost about $400 with the dyno and wideband monitoring included. I have seen this guy extract extreme amounts of safe horsepower from EVO's both with EMS and with Flash. There are at least a dozen EVO's with flash that he has got making over 500whp on stock bottom ends that have lasted over 2 years and are still going.

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That guy is really good. He tuned one of my coworker Evo 9 mr with ecu flash and got 325awhp with just a intake filter, turbo back and ignition system. Evo dyno 240awhp in stock form so he was able to pull out 85awhp with just those mods. That's pretty impressive if you ask me. I'm going to see him in about 2 weeks with the talon :)

Yeah he is really good and he also jacked up his rates crazy when he moved into his new shop. A basic dyno tune went from $300 to $600 in a matter of 2 months. Is it worth it sure if you dont know anyone else who can do it. Scott (awdpsi) is really good with AEM, he actually just left my house he was helping me work out my timing belt issues (god I wish I just kept the 2.0 and stock gears, no guess work!) He is extremely knowledgable in all aspects of tuning and he is an all around nice guy.

Spacer... Check! :smt023


Truthfully though, I still think the Rev Hard manifold is 10x better than the crap tubular manifold I am using now. I am actually suprised it did not crack yet...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stewi

Yeah he is really good and he also jacked up his rates crazy when he moved into his new shop. A basic dyno tune went from $300 to $600 in a matter of 2 months. Is it worth it sure if you dont know anyone else who can do it. Scott (awdpsi) is really good with AEM, he actually just left my house he was helping me work out my timing belt issues (god I wish I just kept the 2.0 and stock gears, no guess work!) He is extremely knowledgable in all aspects of tuning and he is an all around nice guy.

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Very true Scott is also very good but it sucks that he doesn't have a shop with a dyno so you can really fine tune your car. His rates are unbeatable thougg. Ocean parkway is basically his test and tune spot. Scott is also really good with gm maft and dsmlink. btw did you hear he made some mag this month :wink:

He actually wrote a small article in Super Street this month. Its the november issue, im going to buy it today and check it out. For Street Tuning yes Ocean Parkway is still his test and tune spot, but your also forgetting that No Limit has an AWD load bearing dyno now. Scott tunes cars over there often.