Printable View
ok I'm really thinking of doing a Kia/Hyundai head swap, i was reading and i got to this page thing it said i needed at least 1 adjustable cam gear? is that really needed? Also would i have to do anything to the head or can i just slap it on and put the right size belt on it and start it up, EcU? can someone tell me in like description on how to do this? I do my research but i never find anything.
Thanks, Duh2150
try club3g bro. goodluck.
lookup a member named flashbluers on club3g.com for a full parts list
i'm doing the head swap now its actually pretty simple my head and block are at the machine shop now
all aftermarket evo valvetrain components will work with the kia/sonata head
the evo valve cover does not fit on the kia/sonata head
the adjustable cam gear is a must... when lining up the timing marks if you dont have an adjustable gear you will not be able to set the timing correctly
the dohc will run fine on the stock ecu
you need a timing belt belt from a 94 dohc galant gs
you need an evo/outlander tb the kia/sonata one will not work... iac motors are different
the 3g guys say the kia intake manifold will not fit but they have less space between the motor and the firewall then we do so when i install mine i was test fit it
any other questions just post them and i'll do my best to help you out until i finish my tutorial
Good information underated. I think this is what he needed to know. He's trying to get my dohc head and I was trying to answer as much a I could. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by underated
its no problem i'm glad i can help
nothing towards you milo its is better to point someone in the right direction then to give wrong info but everyone says to go over to club3g for stuff i just want there to be some info here too lol
+1
Also in regards to that adjustable cam gear, you only need one, but you cant use the timing marks on the adjustable cam gear itself to set it correctly. I hope I can explain this in words in a way that is understandable
Since the 4G64 block is slightly taller than the EVO block, and the EVO cam gears are made for an EVO, when you install the belt, if you leave the adj cam gear zero'd out and the stock cam gear both lined up with the factory timing marks, when you go to install the belt, it wont fit. It all has to do with the gear/belt tooth spacing and nothing to do with retarding or advancing timing. The only reason you need the adjustable gear is to take the slack out of the belt between the two gears. I think in total mine came out to the gears retarded -7 degrees, that was the setting needed to remove the slack.
Here is what you do, if you look at the cam gear, there is a dowel pin in the gear that the cam goes into, first make sure your using the one labeled "EVO" because most manufacturers are selling DSM gears for the EVO with an added hole because they dont want to redesign the whole thing. The that dowel pin itself is straight up at 12 O'clock, that is the TDC for the cam. So what I did was I set the non adjustable cam gear just using the timing marks and then with the adjustable gear bolts loosened so it adjusts freely, I set it by looking at the dowel pin and lining that up with the timing mark (on the EVO's the timing marks are slightly leaned outward from 12 O'clock but its REALLY close) then once I had this set, I held the cam using a wrench on the bolt and slid the belt over the gear. Now since the adjustable gear is loose, just pull down on the belt firmly and it will take the slack out between the gears, now tighten down the adjustment bolts. With that done, go ahead and take the T belt back off, because you already have the spacing figured out and then set the timing like you normally would according tot he factory tech manual. Dont stress yourself if your timing is off a degree or two either way on the adjustable cam gear side, you need to be off like 4 degrees or better to start bending valves, once you get on the dyno you can fine tune that cam gear. Make sure you put the adjustable cam on the intake cam too, its just easier that way and if you ever wanted to make real adjustments, thats the cam you want to adjust.
why would i gotta change the tb?? im doing a head swap not a mani swap, so the cam gear is needed.. thanks yall thats all my questions right now
right there is your reasonQuote:
Originally Posted by underated
IAC means Idle Air Control. So what Underated is saying is that the motors are different which means it wont be plug and play if you try to use the Hyundai ones and further more if they are a different type motor in regards to signal, resistance, etc, the factory ECU wont be able to control it even if you did re-wire it.
the iac motors are different and you are doing a head swap but thats not all your doing... with the dohc you cant use the stock intake manifold. the evo manifold works forsure as you can see from stewi and cali's cars... the kia/sonata manifold has the same exact bolt pattern but im not sure of it fits between the engine and the fire wall or under the hoodQuote:
Originally Posted by duh2150
you will be changing the water neck on the back of the block
the thermostat housing will have to be from the kia/sonata you cannot use the evo or the galant one
you need to tap the thermostat housing for the water temp sender that shows the hot/cold on the guage cluster... when using the evo head you dont need to do this because you have to use the evo thermostat housing and that one has a place for the sender
you also have to change the reluctor on the exhaust camshaft to an evo one if you are going to use the stock sonata cams... the reluctor is what the camshaft position sensor reads to determine proper timing
there is more but what stewi and I have posted above is most of the main things you will need to do
So the stock ECU can run the DOHC swap with no problem? That is great. I was wondering if you have to run another ECM/ECU program to keep up with the new air and fuel ratios. Very nice
nope flash proved it is not necessary which is really good news lol... to get the best performance as with everything you will need some type of engine management setup
non taken bro. it's all good. but you gots some good info though. i like that!!! double thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by underated
"you need an evo/outlander tb the kia/sonata one will not work... iac motors are different"
i still dont understand why id have to change the tb, doesnt the outlander have the same 2.4l as the 2.4l we got? soo.. wouldnt that mean the same tb? are there tb bigger or what? plus i wasnt gonig ot put a kia/sonata tb in it.. the connections wouldnt work most likely,.. soo can someone tell me the differnce between 2.4l outlander tb and a 2.4l galant tb?
The outlander has a different intake manifold then our crappy 4g64 intake manifolds. They do not have the same TB.
so id need the tb and the mani?
If you are using the DOHC head, you need the tb, the intake manifold will not fit, so you either have to get the Evo 8 manifold or a kia manifold.Quote:
Originally Posted by duh2150
galant tb = 54mm
evo tb = 60mm no cruise control
outlander tb = 60mm w/ cruise control
the evo and outlander tb's have the hookup for the throttle cable on the front side of the tb... the galant has the hookup on the rear (firewall side)
so the intake manifold for the evo/kia/sonata intake manifold have the bracket for the throttle cable on the front side of the manifold (engine side)
you could use the galant tb but you would have to rig up a new throttle cable bracket but the bore of the tb is smaller... the whole reason for the head swap is better performance why skimp out on a better tb if one is easily available
oh lol know i know its a 60mm and now i know im gonna get more power outa doing it i dont care lol i thought they all where 54mm or whatever like the galant well at least the outlander one i thoguth had a 54mm becasue of the same engine and all, ill get evo tb becasue i dont got cruise control, i hope it dont cost that much, and il lget the outlander mani, becasue its casted and i could turbo it later :) thats kinda good news just more $$$ then i was wanting to do, this mod should be kinda easy to do, but time consuming, and the hardest part should be the belt thingy, im kinda afraid lol ill get a knotch wrong and blow it up or somthing
The outlander mani doesn't fit on the DOHC head, either the evo 8 or the kia manifold, then you can mate that up with either the 60mm evo tb or the outlander 60mm tb
so i got no problem with that,.. jsut longer waiting time, so would i have to change otu the maf sensor too??
nope you can use the stock maf sensor
k good :)
i wonder if the reg 4g63 head valves and stuff would fit in? or is that considered 4g63 evo8 a differnt head... id think it would work? youd find more perfoamnce stuff form talons and stuff, right?
valves, cams, springs, retainers, lifters, camshafts, sparkplugs all internals for the evo head fit the optima/sonata head
i'm using evo valves, cams, springs and cam gears on mine
i ment a talon or a eclipce 4g63 head that the same parts used in a evo? so you could accually put evo head parts talon, and 2g eclipce and optima/sonata, so insaid of jsut 3 cars the optima, sonata, and evo, could we add the 2g eclipce and the talon? for a bigger range of parts to choose from?
naw those cars have different parts... i checked to see if atleast the valves are the same but there aren't
oh, i was just wondering, like for everyone else thats gonna do this in the future some questions they might be asking, you know, better educated then not at all
Hmmm are you sure about that? SuperTech lists the +1mm over valves for EVO and 2g DSM to be interchangeable and same with Crower for the springs and retainers. I bought my valves from a guy who bought them for his 2g DSM but never installed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by underated
yeah i thoguht it would still be the same 4g63 head. its the same engine
i checked rockauto.com and they listed different lengths for the stems and the overall face of the valve but they could be wrong
if Stewi says they work i'm a believer
if i got enoth money ill but like a valve from and evo and one from a talon and see if they are differnt