Correct head gasket on Evo8 head 2.4?

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03-20-2012, 04:08 PM
Gtorque

Correct head gasket on Evo8 head 2.4?

Hey as you can see im having alittle trouble with this head gasket on the car. I was using a 87mm Cometic head gasket for the evo. While the car was being tuned alot of smoking started coming from the exhaust after afew pulls. I took the head off and noticed the head gasket was messed up around the piston bore. Now I have fire rings installed on the block and I guess it didnt go well with the gasket? Ive searched and found that when the head is torqued down the head gasket actually ends up going into the combustion chamber. I seen that Race engineering has the correct head gasket for this set up that is a 051". My question is will this still mess up with the fire rings on the block? If so what head gasket should I go with. Some people say OEM 2.4 but that gasket isnt even steel,correct?

As always thanks guys
03-20-2012, 04:24 PM
mrg7243

Felpro MLS

Part Number 26172PT I found it on rockauto cheapest. This is the same head gasket I am going to use on my build
03-20-2012, 04:40 PM
xd_01

yup cometics have been know to fail lately, i would say go with AMS modifeid OEM EVO 8 head gasket but apparently ive read on Evom that they wont sell anybody the head gasket without purchasing their short block which i think is pretty ridiculous, i wouldnt expect a shop like AMS to that but its worth giving a call your self.

also AWD sells the modified OEM head gasket also so thats another option but as of late modified OEM is the way to go.

.....and wow you have o-ringed block!!! how much boost are you planning on running when its all said and done??
03-20-2012, 04:56 PM
xd_01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrg7243

Felpro MLS

Part Number 26172PT I found it on rockauto cheapest. This is the same head gasket I am going to use on my build

which head gasket is that part number for?
03-20-2012, 05:51 PM
mrg7243

Quote:

Originally Posted by xd_01

which head gasket is that part number for?

4g64
03-20-2012, 06:11 PM
Gtorque

Check out that head gasket I was asking about on race engineering. I think that's an MLS head gasket. I think that one might be the way to go. I'm going to go mostly low boost for reliability but who knows when I tune with the racing gas ;)
03-20-2012, 08:41 PM
xd_01

all the head gaskets i saw listed on race engineerings site are all Cometic, if it were me i would buy a modified oem gasket and nothing less. its proven to hold high boost and a simple search on Evom wil convince you.

the felpro route ehh, i wouldnt feel comfortable enough to pair it with a $4,000.00 long block. i dont know how much about them or how much they cost but f there less them a mdified oem i would ather pay the fare and get proven one.

and i dont think race gas and low boost have ever been used in the same sentence lol!

im looking forward to the end result thought ive been following your build for long time.
03-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Gtorque

I said who knows when I use race race meaning when I turn up the boost lmao!

Ugh i guess ill just cancel my order then
03-20-2012, 09:36 PM
xd_01

my bad
03-20-2012, 11:25 PM
mko

Well since the 64 block is flipped and not mirrored for the 8g then theres a good chance that the 94GS dohc gasket will fit. Its about 40 bucks on jnz
03-21-2012, 08:48 AM
Gtorque

Quote:

Originally Posted by xd_01

my bad

Lol all good bro

Quote:

Originally Posted by mko

Well since the 64 block is flipped and not mirrored for the 8g then theres a good chance that the 94GS dohc gasket will fit. Its about 40 bucks on jnz

Ill look into that
03-25-2012, 10:41 AM
Gtorque

Okay guys I think I found the correct head gasket for the 2.4 evo8 head set up. Go to awdmotorsports.com and go to evo 8 9 then click engine. Just scroll down and you will see the gasket for $170. It's a modified oem head gasket with a 87mm bore. It's the same exact head gasket that AMS won't sell without the purchase of there motor. Thought this might help you guys out. Once it comes in and I install it I will let everyone know how it works out.
03-25-2012, 08:27 PM
Stewi

Damn I just typed a long ass reply to this and it didnt upload.....

sigh... hear it goes again.....

So here is the deal with the head gaskets available for the swap.

Cometic gasket- The old old ones were good, when I say old old, I'm talking ones manufactured prior to 2008. Im not sure what they did after that, but they changed something and then the gaskets were hit or miss. I have an old old one and mine is fine so far, had it up to 25psi on C16 with about 13 degrees of timing making 500+whp on back to back dyno pulls, about 15 pulls in 2 hours, no issues. In late 2009 or early 2010 they came out with their Fuzion head gasket or something like that, that new one is supposed to be good. Supposed to be...

Modified OEM EVO gasket - AMS sells them, AWD motorsports sells them and I think Buschure sells them. They work well.

Power Enterprise gasket - This is the best one your money can buy. Its super solid, no reported failures on EVOM. The guys at MAPerformance and English Racing swear by this gasket and frankly, those guys are building more 4G64 powered cars than anyone else right now, so I trust them.

If I remember correctly, I think Goosey is using a cometic gasket as well, with no issues. I think alot of it has to do with end user error and poor surface prep. If the head surface is not cleanly decked to the recommended RA finish, it wont seal right, if the torque specs or sequence isnt spot on, it wont seal right. There are alot of variables. A big variable is also tuning. We all know everyone on evom is a "tuner" and when their head gasket blows up its all of the sudden the manufacturers fault. Knock also kills head gaskets. If you run too much timing, you will blow it, not just cometic, any gasket. Alot of guys think that cylinder pressure is greatly effected by boost level but it is more effected by timing. A car running 20psi and 18 degrees of timing is more likely to pop a gasket than a car running 27psi and 13 degrees of timing. The increased timing is what leaves the highest chance of knock. Thats why you see guys make crackhead power on pump gas and not blow up. They are running 28psi on pump gas, but they never announce that they are only running 9 degrees of timing.
03-25-2012, 08:29 PM
Stewi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gtorque

Okay guys I think I found the correct head gasket for the 2.4 evo8 head set up. Go to awdmotorsports.com and go to evo 8 9 then click engine. Just scroll down and you will see the gasket for $170. It's a modified oem head gasket with a 87mm bore. It's the same exact head gasket that AMS won't sell without the purchase of there motor. Thought this might help you guys out. Once it comes in and I install it I will let everyone know how it works out.

If you popped the cometic gasket, good chance that the head will need to me re-decked. Alot of times when you blow the gasket, the head will slightly warp and will need to be machined again. Make sure that is all checked out before you throw another gasket in there. Also check the block to make sure it isnt scored/scratched in any way.
03-25-2012, 09:55 PM
Gtorque

As always thank you for all the information Brian. I'll make sure I know exactly how much timing they are putting on the car during the next dyno attempt. I'm running 10:1 on the galant so the knocking could be and issue on only running 93. I was going to bring the head back to the machine shop no matter what. I wanna try and keep this from happening yet again. Awd motor sports uses this gasket on all of there 4g64 builds and sware upon it aswell so I'm going to try it out and see how it goes. They are very fond of building a lot of these set ups along with the 10:1 ratio.

Check the top of the block for scratches?
03-25-2012, 10:16 PM
Galantman03

^ correct, any foreign mark in a ra finish can and will mess up the gaskets sealing capabilities. You already got the head off why not take a couple minds and check the heads mating surface for imperfections. Hopefully you find none
03-25-2012, 11:39 PM
Isaurio

did anyone looked at the 4g69. Is a factory 4g64 already 87mm bore. 4g69 OEM head gasket should fit like a glove. But again i think the coolant passage is different. is good to look at that.

Gtorque. Your block is .020 over right? making it 87mm?
03-26-2012, 12:51 AM
underated

am I missing something? whats wrong with the factory gasket?
03-26-2012, 01:14 AM
Isaurio

I believe hes .20 over, factory 4g64 is too small.
03-26-2012, 01:20 AM
underated

im at 88mm and mine is working fine
03-26-2012, 01:23 AM
Isaurio

really. how much boost. If you using the stock gasket. running to high boost will cause problems.
03-26-2012, 01:42 AM
underated

10psi making 350whp on the stock gasket and arp studs. there are eclipse guys making the same or more on the stock gasket. like what was said earlier its all in the prep of the head and block
03-26-2012, 08:36 PM
Stewi

The stock gasket will fail with repeated abuse. The DSM's came stock with a composite head gasket just like the 4G64 but they dont go the distance in terms of longevity and power. You can make 350whp on it fine as long as the tune is solid and safe, but the question is how long. The composite gasket also tends to deform more with higher torque loads. I know most guys using L19 head studs are torquing them down to at least 95lb-ft regardless of what ARP recommends. Try doing that with a composite gasket, the results wont be good. The other issue is knock resistance. You may be able to have a few counts of knock here and there while tuning the car closer to the edge, a composite gasket wont like that at all. Typically they fail at the coolant passages and the car will start to push coolant, ask any 7-bolt DSM owner and they will confirm it.
03-26-2012, 08:39 PM
Stewi

Quote:

Originally Posted by underated

10psi making 350whp on the stock gasket and arp studs. there are eclipse guys making the same or more on the stock gasket. like what was said earlier its all in the prep of the head and block

In addition to this, Goosey's car was making 300ish whp running 15-18psi on a EVO turbo, using a junkyard 4G64 motor with 130k miles, using a stock head gasket and stock head bolts, im pretty sure he got the better part of about 30k miles or more out of that setup. The key here is his car was never pushed too far tune wise. It was pretty conservative on timing and a little on the rich side for AFR, it was SAFE.
03-26-2012, 10:22 PM
mrg7243

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewi

The stock gasket will fail with repeated abuse. The DSM's came stock with a composite head gasket just like the 4G64 but they dont go the distance in terms of longevity and power. You can make 350whp on it fine as long as the tune is solid and safe, but the question is how long. The composite gasket also tends to deform more with higher torque loads. I know most guys using L19 head studs are torquing them down to at least 95lb-ft regardless of what ARP recommends. Try doing that with a composite gasket, the results wont be good. The other issue is knock resistance. You may be able to have a few counts of knock here and there while tuning the car closer to the edge, a composite gasket wont like that at all. Typically they fail at the coolant passages and the car will start to push coolant, ask any 7-bolt DSM owner and they will confirm it.

Not sure if you know there is a MLS gasket available for the 4g64 its a permatorque by felpro
03-27-2012, 12:04 AM
underated

wait i thought the stock head gaskets were multi layered steel?

http://www244.pair.com/oldguys/AHG246b.jpg
http://www244.pair.com/oldguys/AHG246a.jpg
03-27-2012, 07:14 PM
Stewi

The stock EVO head gasket is MLS, the STOCK OEM 4G64 gasket is composite. Some of the aftermarket replacement gaskets such as the Felpro and APEX are MLS. Im not sure if Mitsu started using a MLS gasket in later 4G64 models (like after 2003) I know for sure my 99' stock engine had a composite gasket as did the 02' engine that I took apart for my donor block.
03-27-2012, 07:21 PM
qnz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewi

Power Enterprise gasket - This is the best one your money can buy. Its super solid, no reported failures on EVOM. The guys at MAPerformance and English Racing swear by this gasket and frankly, those guys are building more 4G64 powered cars than anyone else right now, so I trust them.

Just an update, English racing says they do not use the power enterprise gaskets anymore. I didn't find out the reason why, but it sounded like they had a bad experience that caused them to stop using it alltogether and not reccomend it to anyone
03-27-2012, 07:26 PM
Stewi

I just did some re-search, turns out all the aftermarket ones are MLS. It also looks like Mitsu we with MLS on some 03' models and began using them full time on 04+ models. I would imagine they did this for cost savings, they had to make the MLS gaskets for the EVO anyway, for the 64' they just needed to open up the bores by a few mm's. Cheaper than making two different gaskets out of two different materials.
03-27-2012, 07:27 PM
Stewi

Quote:

Originally Posted by qnz

Just an update, English racing says they do not use the power enterprise gaskets anymore. I didn't find out the reason why, but it sounded like they had a bad experience that caused them to stop using it alltogether and not reccomend it to anyone

When was that? Maybe they started having quality control issues with them. I spoke with Aaron (JohnBradley) last year and those guys SWORE by those gaskets.

*EDIT* See what happens when I take a few months off? I miss stuff like this......