Failed emissions, 3 Codes, Nothing fixes it. Long write up

Ok, so this may get a little winded but here's my dilema. 2003 ES 4 cyl. Bought the car off craigslist.

With no Check Engine light on and the car is driving fine, I take it to get my emissions test done. The guy tells me that the car failed and popped 3 codes (WTF):
P0421 (warm up catalyst), P0335 (crankshaft position sensor), P0340 (camshaft position sensor)

So, I'm curious to find out why the Check Engine light didnt come on. Randomly, I pull out the gauge cluster and BAM, the bulb had been removed. F me right?

I put in a bulb and sure enough it lights up. Take the car to autozone and get the codes read again just to triple check for my reference, same 3 pop up.

Moment of truth: I'm not that mechanically inclined. Simple adjustments, modifications, oil changes, etc. I'm comfortable with, but lack of space, knowledge, tools is holding me back at the moment. SO...
I go to my trusted mechanic and tell him the issue. He says before we dive into anything, lets clear the codes and see what happens. Maybe some of those codes were stored/memory? If the light pops up, check the codes right away. Sure enough, less than 200 feet from the shop, the light pops up. This time its only P0335/P0340

At this point, I don't have the time to leave it at the shop and decided to hang onto it for a few more days. Get the codes checked again after a few days and now its all 3 again: P0421/ P0335 / P0340 Keep in mind, the car drives fine and has no issues other than this light. BUT I need to pass emissions by May 31st

I decide to bite the bullet and let him fix the cam/crank sensors and see whatsup with the cat/02 issue. He goes and puts in the cam/crank sensor and calls to tell me there's a problem. The Check Engine light popped back on with the same codes. Seemingly, this has nothing to do with the sensors.

Now after looking through the car, spending 10+ hours on it, he's under the impression this engine is the wrong year for the car and that the computer was never changed. He thinks that IF we changed the computer to match the year of the engine, it would fix this issue. Problem is we don't know what year this engine is from and cannot identify it. Talking to Jigz who has an 02 engine with 00 computer, he thinks this wouldn't make a difference.

At this point myself and the mechanic are equally frustrated. He's got a shop to run and can't spend all his time on this car. Granted, it's not his fault that this May be a different engine. He did his job by changing the sensors, but still I need my car to pass. He feels terrible and doesnt even know what to charge me for his work. So I have no idea what to do at this point. I'll be wasting money trying to figure this out, he's wasting time on it when he's got other cars in his shop to fix...


Any ideas of why these codes would be popping up? How to identify the engine? How to solve my issue??

I went to get my car last night. Still haven't paid him for anything. I've used this guy for a couple years and have trusted him, but to be honest I think he's getting in over his head with business and is short staffed. He put my car back together and drove it and said everythings fine (minus the codes). I get it, drive it and it starts to shake a bit. Pop the hood and the #1 spark plug boot it slightly off. Put it back, no more issue. Go to my car this morning to go to work and the fucker won't start. Sounds like its trying but wont turn over. A few attempts and I get it, but then it dies. Struggle a few more times, get it to turn on, the idle drops low and dies. I also notice this harness under the hood is out of place and out of the loom. Never noticed that before.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps9c0f943d.jpg

Any info/help is much appreciated!! I need to get this car tested and my plate stickers renewed.

Looks like the cam sensor plug...

Each of those codes is a circuit malfunction, I would check the wires and connectors. Maybe a wire is broken or pin is bent.

As for the catalyst code you can replace both O2's but theres a good chance its the cat.

I dislike parts changers he didn't do you any favors. I would start by making sure the timing belt is spot on and cam/crank sprockets tight with key-ways in place. I agree with deez, looks like cam sensor plug.

The yr of the motor does not matter ive changed my cars motor twice ive even had an 03 eclipse motor with no issue but like said that plug goes to the cam sensor

Thanks for the input guys. It definitely seems that this was majorly overlooked. I'm going over to his shop tonight to talk to him and figure out what he's doing with this car. As well as how much, if any he is trying to charge me.

I brought him a functioning/running car and received it in worse condition. Seeing that plug hanging out and wiring out of the loom got me pretty frustrated, but misfiring and not having it start the next day was even worse.

This is definitely motivation to research a little more and try to fix my own problems next time, rather than drop it off to a shop that doesn't give it proper attention.

Let's see what this guy says.

malfunctioning cam sensor / wiring will throw p0340 and P0335
malfunctioning cranck sensor / wiring will only throw p0335 and the car will not start
if your timing is off by a tooth or two you will get p0340 and P0335
a dying battery will also cause codes p0340 and P0335 sometimes


like w/oarctic7g said check the timing. i went through this with a friend not too long ago and his timing was off

What levels in the emissions report caused your car to fail? Timing being off by a tooth causes malfunctions in the head, releasing exhaust at incorrect times, which in turn could effect the emission levels. At the same time, circuitry problems could cause improper firing, a/f ratio, etc. also.
How many miles on the motor? Are there any ticks that you're shrugging off as lifter tick?
I believe my car's timing belt tensioner to have failed. The car drives (drove - the tranny went out shortly after) and idles fine, but there's a noticeible click or tick, and I've pulled the same cam and cranks sensor codes as you. Granted, my car is a v6 and has two heads to make the clatter, so it may be less noticeable on yours. Buy a Haynes/Chiltons manual and you can easily check the timing yourself with simple tools.

I've got 151,xxx miles on the car. I did have all the belts, tensioner, water pump replaced a couple months ago by this same guy (who I'm starting to second guess). There is indeed a very small tick and I did assume its the lifters.

He's supposedly going to look over the car again in detail today but I'm picking it up tonight regardless. I let him know all of the advice I've received here and told him to triple check Battery, Timing, Cam sensor. He swears the timing is spot on but I think I'm going to have to schedule sometime with Jigz to look over it at some point. He also swears that the engine has parts from another year. He's compared it to his 2004 Galant that he has in the shop and says its the same. It's possible that there is a 4g69 Crankshaft on this? Could that matter for the sensor?

In the past, he's done full timing kit w/ belts, water pump, etc. multiple oil Changes, Valve cover gasket... All of which I assume are still 4g64 and for my car. Otherwise he would've noticed this problem sooner.

Here is the service manual: http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/GR00006800-13A.pdf

You can check those topics to find out what's going on with your car:

DTC P0421: Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold
DTC P0335: Crankshaft Position Sensor Circuit
DTC P0340: Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit

If you go through "TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS" section you will see that there is no direct relation to timing belt.
It may be sensors (O2 front or rear, crankshaft position sensor, camshaft position sensor), connectors or wiring.

For P0421 it could be front catalyst, but most likely it's front O2.

Not really much progress...

A new crank sensor was recently put in and showed no reading when tested, so that was replaced with another new one. Car still doesnt start.
The cam sensor was actually plugged in when I took that pic and has tested fine. So, that extra harness hanging out is another mystery (possibly temperature sensor).

The old cam/crank sensors were also tested and came out fine.

Since both the old sensors were fine and operational after testing, the mechanic put them both back. This would be the way I brought the car to him in the first place. It WAS a running car without any issue when I brought it in (other than failing emissions). Yet, now it still won't turn on.

Sensors are good, car has fuel, fuel is being sent when you start to turn it on, car gets spark (even put in new plugs), timing is good, battery life is good. He can get a reading on both sensors when he manually turns the engine, but cannot get this thing to fire up.

I guess the next step is to trace the wires and see if theres a kink or cut.

Jigz gave me an 00 ECU / key (what a good guy) Now I need to find out the pinout diagram. Not sure if this should be a last ditch effort or not at this point.

Any ideas?

The engine looks like an 02-03 by the valve cover. A bad ground on both cam and crank sensor on the plug or harness wont start the car and gives you problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHICAGO_ONE

Not really much progress...
Sensors are good, car has fuel, fuel is being sent when you start to turn it on, car gets spark (even put in new plugs), timing is good, battery life is good. He can get a reading on both sensors when he manually turns the engine, but cannot get this thing to fire up.

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If car gets spark and fuel pump is working during cranking the engine, it can be assumed the crank sensor is good and properly wired.
If cam sensor is unplugged it would not prevent engine to start, it should start and then will die in 2 seconds (at least it happens at my Galant 2001).
If coolant temperature sensor (2 contacts) is bad or unplugged a car won't start. So check that sensor too.

did you check for any corrosion on your plugs? i had an issue like that but i am a V6 so my camshaft sensor is built into the distributor. I was getting a set of errors because the plug was corroded, once I cleaned that up i got other errors which ended up me having to replace the distributor.

I finally got the car is back and its running, but the error codes have still not been resolved. At this point, I didn't care. I just wanted it out of this shop. Still haven't payed the guy for anything, nor has he discussed charging me at this time.


Jigz gave me a 2000 ECU to try out, so I think that will be my next step.

just for reference, the AC Switch and Fuel Pump Relay pins need to be switched correct?
Does anyone have a clear diagram of this?
This is what I found
AC Switch #83
Fuel Pump Relay #21 right?
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps53d96bdb.png

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps05a50d75.jpg

Did you double check the main wiring harness? I had a similar problem, with 3 different codes, one was cylinder misfire, other was throttle position sensor, the last one was intake pressure sensor, the car was running very erratic, even the transmission was mis-shifting; after changing all the sensors, and even change the throttle body, it all end up being the wiring; the wiring of the tps and the one from the coolant sensor. the car is now like new. So, please, check the wiring!

I'll see for myself. The mechanic that had it says he went over all the wiring, but he may have missed something. The car was running fine this entire time, which is the weird part.
I'll be sure to update this thread with anything I find / resolve. I'm running out of days to get my emissions test done/get my plate stickers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CHICAGO_ONE

Jigz gave me a 2000 ECU to try out, so I think that will be my next step.

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AFAIK, 2003 Galant does not have speed sensor and speedometer gets signal from PCM, so your speedometer may not work.
Before changing PCM it's better to be 100% sure PCM indeed is the cause of problems.

In my case, I don't know how, but one of the wires going to the TPS sensors was broken, inside the cover, and the wires to the Coolant sensor where kind of "rusty" or with some kind of corroding dust, I find it because it was feeling kind of toasted. The point is, it may appear to be impossible but a Mitsubishi mechanic told me these cars suffer from these wires to be fragile, so check with care, inch by inch specially in the area where the wiring is closest to the engine, the heat and stress is what damage them. Good luck, I sure hope you find the problem without having to change the PCM.

Anything new with this issue?

Nothing new. I haven't been able to personally look at the car much now that I just moved into a new house and have been remodeling/organizing.

I spoke to the mechanic that was working on it. He's still stumped. Now he's under the impression that the head/block are from different years (which I didn't think would matter). He wanted to tell me everything he did to get it running again, after I brought it to him and he killed it. He told me that the first thing he did was trace the wiring and look it over for any damages. found none. He admitted that he had one of his young mechanics start changing parts on the car, who has since been fired (for this and other issues).

He showed me the plate thats near the crankshaft, that glides through the sensor. It was extremely warped. So he replaced that with OEM, straight from Mitsu.
He showed me the old crank sensor, which was cheapo after market as well as 2 other after market sensors (one was 2003/other was 2000) Neither got the car running when he tried them. So he ordered OEM directly from Mitsu.
He kept the old Cam sensor on the car, but now wants to try an OEM one.

He is questioning the cam and if it's the correct one for the car. He said he would be looking up a photo of a 2003 cam to see if they match up. I've got a little over 2 weeks for emissions, otherwise I need to ask for an extension.

I still have a 2000 ECU to try and swap.

Does anyone have a pic of the end of a 2003 camshaft so we can compare?

I believe the cam sensor are all the same I bought one from auto zone and worked perfectly when mine went bad like 2yrs ago

After trying to dig a little more, I randomly stumbled onto this exact same topic and Possible solution being covered on justanswer.com / C3G / and even TGC: Camshaft Reluctor. It appears that there was an update from 99-01 / 02-03. If in fact this engine has been changed at some point, there is a good possibility that the reluctor is from an earlier year. This would allow the car to run without an issue, but confuse the ECU.

I'll be checking on this later tonight to see if I can identify which one is in my car. God I hope this is it!

http://www.justanswer.com/mitsubishi...m-sensing.html

http://www.club3g.com/forum/problem-...335-p0340.html

https://www.thegalantcenter.org/show...Swap-questions

I ripped this photo from C3G, but does anyone have a trick / recommendation to get this part off? I had the cam sensor disconnected and removed the two bolts for this cover but it still won't budge. I'm trying to get in there to see if that Cam Cylinder is 99-01 or 02-03
Any ideas? rubbet mallet? Gently pry up the edges?

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...psb39c3731.jpg

Take a 12mm deep socket(IIRC) + extension + ratchet and remove the bolt that's in the center of it

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 99galantES

I believe the cam sensor are all the same I bought one from auto zone and worked perfectly when mine went bad like 2yrs ago

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99/01 and 02/04 have a different cam sensor reluctor, you need the proper one for the year of your car due to ecu ect bull crap,
If your getting crank and cam sensor codes and you have a 99 motor in a 03 then you need the cam sensor relctor wheel from a 02/04

Visa versa

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

I had two different yr motors on my 99 with no issues and swapped parts from 99 motor that I had new

Sorry I'm late to the party, I had the same problem with my car after an engine swap. I had to swap the cam reluctor wheel to the year range of the engine (2000-2002) or (2003-2005). The early engines had a 1 pulse wheel where the later engines had a 3 pulse wheel. I spent days tracing all my wires, making my own grounds, and repinning (I did a manual ecu swap). Having the wheel wrong will throw both of the codes simultaneously.

Anyway I would change the reluctor wheel to the early style 1 pulse cam wheel (chances are you have a late model ecu that matches the year of the car).

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keith6110

Sorry I'm late to the party, I had the same problem with my car after an engine swap. I had to swap the cam reluctor wheel to the year range of the engine (2000-2002) or (2003-2005). The early engines had a 1 pulse wheel where the later engines had a 3 pulse wheel. I spent days tracing all my wires, making my own grounds, and repinning (I did a manual ecu swap). Having the wheel wrong will throw both of the codes simultaneously.

Anyway I would change the reluctor wheel to the early style 1 pulse cam wheel (chances are you have a late model ecu that matches the year of the car).

Good luck!

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You're referring to this part, correct?
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf72b4493.jpg

Im under the assumption that my engine was changed, but I still have the '03 ECU. I ordered the part on the right, which is for late model galants. I'll have it on Wednesday and see if it works.

Final8 - I'm talking about getting the actual cover off, so I can access this ^ part. It has two bolts holding it on, I removed those, but it's still stuck. Im just seeing if theres a trick to it, or just give it a few good taps with a rubber mallet.

Oh well my bad, tap it a few times and spin it off, there will be a o ring on it so there a lip on it too

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You got it! Let us know if this fixes your problems.

Got the new Cam Reluctor in last night. Check Engine light went away and has stayed off. Drove around the block last night, then 30 mins to work today. I'm going to get Autozone to read for any codes on my break, just in case... Then hopefully get my emissions done! Keeping my fingers crossed.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps5f90f651.jpg

good job

And it's officially fixed! Just passed emissions. Thanks to everyone that was trying to help and troubleshoot the issues. Problem Solved.

Good to hear bro, sucks that you have emmsions, you should move to Fla, have fun with it

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