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So I got my rebuilt head back.
I am goint to put it on this weakend.
I was wondering if there's anything out of the ordinary that I should know about before I put them on?
I really don't want to wreck the valave train again and have to get the head re- rebuilt :-)
Thanks
make sure the pistons are NOT at TDC when setting the head on.
Place #1 close to TDC (maybe a half in down the bore).
Make sure your cam is approximately at its number one position.
and DONT crank the engine over without having the belt on the car!
After the head is on, you will be safely able to rotate the crankshaft back up to TDC, BY HAND ONLY!
thats about it.
make sure you time the oil pump / balance shaft sprocket correctly, because theres more to it than just lining up the mark. The oil pump sprocket is gears on a 2 to 1 reduction. If you get it wrong, the balance shaft will actually add vibration, not eliminate it.
Hey manybrews how you been .
Ok cool I had no idea about pulling the pistons down a bit, I was really wondering if I should do that.
About the cam how do I know if its at no 1 position?
The oil pump you mean stick the screw driver in the plug to make sure that the cam is on the bottom right?
Why do you have to pull the pistons down a bit if your gonna have to crank it back up to tdc anyway to put the belt on?
And Jiul make sure you use new head bolts dont re-use your old ones. A new headgasket would also be a good idea.
actually, you can safely reuse the head bolts, provided they are within acceptable limits.
However, you obviously DO need to replace the head gasket.
And yes, i was referring to the "screwdriver trick" in reference to the timing of the oil pump / balance shaft.
As far as the cam goes, make sure the dowel pin is at about 12:00 o-clock.
there is an actual mark on the cam and valve cover, but you cant line them up until the valve cover is installed, so go with the dowel pin at 12 oclock as a good guesstimate.
Thanks manybrews
I just went downstaris and saw the pin on the heads its not at 12 but about 11, I'll move it up.
Whats going on Jip, I'll measure the bolts tomorrow, but the car suppposedly only has 35K miles so I think they should be ok.
And yeah I bought a head set.
Should I throw some oil or other lubricant on these heads before I put them on?
if theyve been properly rebuilt by a quality machine shop, they should already be prelubed where they need to be (the cam journals).
if not, yes, use some type of assembly lube.
Hey guys how do measure the head bolts?
Do you measure the entire bolt from one end to the other?
Or do you measure from just below the bolt cap to the end, another words just the shaft?
Hey Manybews, I put on the camshaft sprocket, with the nipple @ 12 like you said. the thing is that the timing mark on the sprocket is now at 6 o'clock. The timing bump on the head is , as you know , at about 9 o'clock? Do I rotate the sprocket? None of the pistons are @TDC, I left about 1/2 inch off the top so I guess I can rotate it no?
Well your uposed to line up the timing marks. For things like cams its possible to line them up and be 180 out of phase thats why u use that nipple in the center as a guide, when its point at 12 on the clock then you line up the marks on the gears and your good to go. So when you line up the timing marks on the crank your pistons will be at tdc, also keep the marks on the head lined up and you shouldnt be hitting ur valves since the timing marks keep things in sync.
Jip, OK, so I can rotate the cam sprocket about one quarter turn to line up the timing dot on the camshaft sprocket with that potrussion on the heads, without the belt on?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>Jip, OK, Â*so I can rotate the cam sprocket about one quarter turn to line up the timing dot on the camshaft sprocket with that potrussion on the heads, without the belt on?</div>
I believe when you drop the head on you should have the mark as close to the timing mark as possible. This way you arent cranking the cam over completely to make a new set of valves open, your just adjusting very slightly to get the mark to line up and this shouldnt interfere with anything if you have the crank timing mark lined up.
Better double check with some people to make sure..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JiP)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jiul)</div><div class='quotemain'>Jip, OK, Â*so I can rotate the cam sprocket about one quarter turn to line up the timing dot on the camshaft sprocket with that potrussion on the heads, without the belt on?</div>
I believe when you drop the head on you should have the mark as close to the timing mark as possible. This way you arent cranking the cam over completely to make a new set of valves open, your just adjusting very slightly to get the mark to line up and this shouldnt interfere with anything if you have the crank timing mark lined up.
Better double check with some people to make sure..</div>
Jip, buddy, first you say the pin should be at 12 and now you say that you believe the mark should be as close to the mark on the head as possible when you drop the head on.
I put the pin at 12 and that puts the sprocket timing mark at 6. Thats the problem.
To get the sprocket timing mark aligned with the timing bump on the cylinder head which is at 9 I have to turn the cam shaft sprocket one quarter of a turn clockwise...
Can I do that without wrecking the valve train.
Am I doing something wrong?
The pin is NOT the timing mark that is suposed to be lined up.
Dude, let a mechanic do this.
JIP WTF are you talking about ?
Who the f..... said the pin is the timing mark?Point that out to me in any post that I wrote and I'll eat the god damned puter.
I was very clear in my question .
I said that the pin is at 12 , aligned with the mark on the damned valve cover that Manybrews was talking about as is the notch on the perimeter of the camshaft sprocket. ( none of these is the f---g timing mark)
This puts the timing mark , the timing punch , at 6 o'clock. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?
My question to Brews was that if its safe to rotate the camshaft sprocket .
It probably is.
If you look back a few posts Manybrews suggested that I make sure that the pistons at least 1/2 inch below TDC ( you actually threw a wisecrack at that remark) Now I know why that is; so i can move the god damned sprocket without any god damned interference.
You have just posted four god damned posts that say nothing but god damned none sense.
Now you get on here and tell me to let a mechanic do this. WTF?
"I don't know" is a very nice sentence, beats the hell out posting four or five BS posts about shit you don't know!
Jip maybe to clarify your confussion, go look at a camshaft sprocket. See where the pin hole is Vs the timing punch.
They are in line, diametrically oppsed. If one is at 12 the other is at 6 and vice versa. Get it? Hell at least that's what I have on my f--g sprocket!!!!!
calm down buddy remember which one of us cranked the engine without the timing belt on and got in this mess in the frist place.
And how isl asking manybrews why you should lower the pistons a wise crack?
For all the dumb questions you ask you should not being performing this job on your own because obviously you dont know how to do it. So if you want to yell at me when I'm tryin to help, you fine be a dick and when you post up that your new head exploded on you, dont be surprised when I post up laughing my ass off.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JiP)</div><div class='quotemain'>calm down buddy remember which one of us cranked the engine without the timing belt on and got in this mess in the frist place.
And how isl asking manybrews why you should lower the pistons a wise crack?
For all the dumb questions you ask you should not being performing this job on your own because obviously you dont know how to do it. Â*So if you want to yell at me when I'm tryin to help, you fine be a dick and when you post up that your new head exploded on you, dont be surprised when I post up laughing my ass off.</div>
If asking dumb questions is a sin then I am guilty.
But posting idiotic answers and giving erroneous advice is even worse.
I have no intrest in getting into a pissing contest with you.
Just admit to yourself that maybe there are some things that you have no clue about, to remedy that maybe you should ask questions... not post nonesense.
Did you ever take the heads of a car and put them back? No. Then what the f--k makes you an expert?
man, im not sure exactly what youre asking.
Heres a pic.. although its not of a 7th gen, it should be nearly identical.
The dowel pin is NOT the timing mark, but its usually a good point of reference. Meaning the dowel at 12 o clock is usually TDC for a mitsu (note that the actual timing mark is directly above the dowel pin in the photo).
http://home.mn.rr.com/hartsstuff/untitled.JPG
If the cam is at TDC, you do NOT EVER turn the engine over. One of the pistons WILL eventually make contact with a valve.
However, if your doing it by hand, there is little chance of you doing any real damage, as you will feel the contact between the two parts right away (as you rotate the crankshaft, that is).
Manybrews, that'a exactly how I have it. Thanks
Ive done almost everything you can think of to a galant and eclipse, I know what im doin. If you dont understand what im sayin then ask nicely I get a bunch of ims and emails a day from tgc poeple askin for help, you can ask anyone here im there to share my experience and theories withem as long as they dont act like a dick if they dont understand what im sayin. Next time just calm down and instead of cursing in your reply just say "I dont think you understand what im tryin to say".
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JiP)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ive done almost everything you can think of to a galant and eclipse, I know what im doin. Â*If you dont understand what im sayin then ask nicely I get a bunch of ims and emails a day from tgc poeple askin for help, you can ask anyone here im there to share my experience and theories withem as long as they dont act like a dick if they dont understand what im sayin. Â*Next time just calm down and instead of cursing in your reply just say "I dont think you understand what im tryin to say".</div>
Its 4:49 go get some sleep
just got home...ill be up till 11am saturday...
I just got up, going down to put distributor on and finish this thing.
make sure the distributor is CORRECTLY at TDC, also.
it could go in 180 degrees off, but there are two small timing marks on it, as well.
manybrews I lined up the marks on the distributor and it went right in, so i guess that the cam was also right ( it was just like the pic )
HERE IS THE F--K UP IF you look in the Chilton , page 3-42, figure 181 "Timing belt pulley alignment marks-2.4L engine"
It shows the camshaft sprocket with the timing mark ( punch) at 9 o'clock
HOW THE F--K CAN THAT BE RIGHT
(in the same pic it shows the timing mark for the crankshaft flange and the mark in the oil sprocket in their right places.)
Why are they calling the punch on the camshaft sprocket
the timing mark when in fact the timing mark is on the opposite side of that punch?
Someone plese, please look at that pic and tell me that I am not losing what's left of my f---g mind!
i have no idea what chiltons says, as they are about the worst information on the planet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manybrews)</div><div class='quotemain'>i have no idea what chiltons says, as they are about the worst information on the planet.</div>
Budy you ain't kidding. You said that if I turned the engine over by hand I couldn't do any dammage because I would've felt it and stoped. That's exactly what I thought also but I figured hell what do I know about interference engines, the last IC engine I overhauled was a monster 10 cylinder radial engine.
But I did line up the timing according to that freeking pic in chilton and I am pretty sure that's what screwd up my valve train.
I really wish somoene else would take a look at that damn pic and tell me if I am insane.
It show the punch, which is a small dot on one of the sprocket spokes. its on the spoke opposite the timing mark , it shows this punch at 9 o'clok, and says that it should be aligned with the mark on the heads?
I don't see no f--ing timing mark on the heads.
If other people look at this pic and agree with me, I am writting to those a--holes at Chilton and sending them a bill for my repairs including labor.
Maube we should also post a sticky to warn people about it. But like I said I wish others would look at it, maybe I am seeing it wrong.
http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift...haul_spyder.pdf
Try taking a look at that. Its the 2.4l engine overhaul instructions from the manual cd which is suposed to be a direct scan from the factory manuals so that should have detailed CORRECT info.
Hey JIP that's exactly what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In this manual as well as in the pic that brews posted the timing mark is the notch in the camshaft sprocket and its a 12 o'clok as it should be.
In the Chilton's page 3-42 fig 181 ( 2.L timing belt pulley alignment marks) it refers to the "punch" as the timing mark , it shows it aligned with some phantom " Timing mark ( on cylindr head)" , a direct quote, and they have it at 9 o'clok!!
I think that it is complete f----g BS!
I used that diagram to set the belt the first time around and no wonder that I needed new god damned heads.
If anyone has the pic to post it so that we can all look at it that would be great if not I'll hop over to Staples and get this thing scaned and post it...probably on Monday though.
PS Did i tell you what a great help you are ;-)
So I put timing belt and everything else back on, and it ran fine, but had a small leak comming out of oil pressure reg. Took accessories belts off and covers, to be able to put a soket on it, put some teflon on it tightened it back on and it stoped leaking.
Then I put it and evrything else back on and now I get a banging noise comming from somewhere behind the covers .
I have no Idea what that could be, but I'll taqke it all off again tomorow to find out.
Hey JIP sorry about that particular posting.
Car running fine, some smoke from exhaust gasket, will get new one but the rest is running nice.
Many thanks to Manybrews and Jip for posting the pages from the shop manual. If I had followed the pic. from Chilton like I did the first time I would have wrecked the valve train again, like I did the first time. :evil:
I scanned the pic from Chilton and I want to post it so that others woun't get shafted...how do I post pics on this site?