Let's talk suspension!

Hello,
We have noticed through various forums that there are a few misconceptions about handling, and what makes a car handle well.

For starters....
"If I lower my car will it handle better?"
- Of course it will handle better then it would stock because you are lowering the cars center of gravity. You are basically placing the cars weight between the tires versus on top of the tires.

"Will my car handle better if I get better tires?"
- Yes, your car will handle better if you get a better grade of tire. A softer compound and a wider tire will keep the car planted through turns. Ideally you would like the widest footprint you can obtain without loosing clearance.

"What size rim is the best for handling?"
- Motor trend did a study for this a while ago, when manufactures were coming out with factory cars that had 18" wheels. The study showed the best results were obtained using 17" wheels. Second were 18� wheels. All rims used the same brand tires and the same compounds.

"Will wheel spacers help the handling of my car?"
- This is a touchy subject. If you add spacers to your car for clearance issues then you do not want to go too far out. Remember, the further you go out with the wheel, you have to worry about the scrub radius. Yes, a wider track is better for handling, however you have to do it in moderations. There is a certain amount you can go without compromising the suspension. If you run anything more then a 2-3mm spacer then it is suggested you go with aftermarket wheel studs to ensure proper thread engagement.

"Will a front strut tower brace make my car handle better?"
- Yes and NO. Let us explain why we say no. If the strut tower bar does not attach to the firewall it will not be worth it to add it to your suspension modification list. A good strut tower bar will attach to the firewall. Even if you add a straight brace from tower to tower, sure you have the towers attached, but they are still moving. Now they are just moving together. This is why it is important to attach it to the firewall. The firewall will not move under any driving condition.

"Will a rear strut tower brace help the handling of my car?
- Yes and No. Again location is very important in a good design. If the mounting point is too low it will lose its function. It has to stay high on the parts it is trying to keep from flexing. These are key points to remember when searching for a rear strut tower brace:
If a strut bar (or any bar) has tie rod ends = IT ALLOWS FLEX
If a brace uses adjustments = IT ALLOWS FLEX
If a brace uses bolts for mounting = IT ALLOWS FLEX
If a brace is mounted via welding = SIGNIFICANTLY LESS FLEX
If a brace uses triangulation = SIGNIFICANTLY LESS FLEX
Brace is used in the correct location = SIGNIFICANTLY LESS FLEX
If a brace uses inferior material = IT ALLOWS FLEX

"Will sub-frame connectors work?"
- Yes, if they are done correctly. They will give you the front to back support that is needed. Does material make a difference? Yes! The stronger the material, the stiffer the chassis would be. Stay tuned on those; we are working on those as we type this!

"Will Poly Urethane bushings help?"
- Bushing deflection is really overlooked by most people. If you can address the bushings, seriously consider doing it. It will certainly cut down on suspension play.

"Will a CSK-C help the handling of my car?"
- Yes! Why? It will neutralize your chassis and keep it from flexing. As a direct result of that it will allow your suspension to do what it was originally designed to do. A FLEXING CHASSIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TUNE! IT ACTS AS AN UNDAMPED SPRING. This is almost always overlooked!

“Will sway bars help the cars handling?�
- Yes, it will keep the body from rolling on the suspension. Nothing more can be said about that.

"Do different wheel offsets make a difference in performance?"
- NO & YES. It really depends on why you choose to use a different wheel offset. Different wheel offsets will help you if you are having clearance issues with brakes. Some brake systems require more clearance then others. This is one of the reasons different offsets are made availible. Bottom line is that if you are looking to run a wider tire without going into the fender, you can look at changing the offset to get more tire in the wheel well. So if you have two inches of clearance on the inside and only one on the outside then you can play with the offset to find a tire and wheel combo that will fill up the gaps. This will go back to the original question,"Will my car handle better if I get better tires?"
So the answer is a question. How do YOU intend to use the wheel offset?

Now we understand that this is about $10K worth of suspension modifications. We are not saying that you will not notice any gains if you choose to do one or two of these mods. However to obtain the absolute best out of your application you are going to have to address every issue as best you can. There is really no right or wrong way to go about doing this. Each modification will help to a certain extent. But at the end of the day they are all designed to work together.
The most important thing is to identify what it is that you are trying to do with your car. This will help you figure out what is the best setup for your car.

Thank you,

Great general information about suspension upgrades. :thumbsup:

Good info except I believe that the "No" explination for the Front STB is kind of bs. I understand what is being said about the flex if it's not attatched to the firewall. I feel that if you ask anyone who has purchased and installed a Front STB, regardless of whether it attatches to the firewall or not, their handling has increased and it made a noticible difference.

wow. great info. this is definitely a keeper thread :approve:

Hello,
We are not saying that you will not notice a difference with a strut tower brace that does not attach to the firewall. We are saying that you would notice more of a difference if it did attach to the firewall.
Thank you,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(irishpunk)</div><div class='quotemain'>Good info except I believe that the "No" explination for the Front STB is kind of bs. Â*I understand what is being said about the flex if it's not attatched to the firewall. Â*I feel that if you ask anyone who has purchased and installed a Front STB, regardless of whether it attatches to the firewall or not, their handling has increased and it made a noticible difference.</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr. Design)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hello, Â*
We are not saying that you will not notice a difference with a strut tower brace that does not attach to the firewall. We are saying that you would notice more of a difference if it did attach to the firewall. Â*
Thank you, Â*
</div>

Yes Dr. Design is correct. That's why so many aftermarkets as Irish stated don't bolt up to the firewall...it still makes a difference. However, it works slightly better if it's also bolted onto the firewall, which is why many factory setups use it, such as the Lancer Evo and Eclipse GT/GTS. An example of a factory setup that does not bolt to the firewall is the 350Z...it is a bridge design like the Freedom Design strut tower bar. Either way, adding a strut tower bar will make a difference.

Thanks for all of those answers I've been thinking of what and what not to do. Now i have my answers. Especialy with the tire size since this is my next big purchase.

If you only could do two things to a stock suspension for maximum improvement, it would probably be stickier (and wider) tires and a rear sway bar.

:shock: check out their design for the galant STB...damn that looks sweet. C'mon Dr. Give us some prices!!!!

I agree with max, where are the prices for this bar and how can we get it?

Hello All,
Sorry for the delayed response.
The price for the 8GCSK-C is $275.00 plus shipping. We often do offer GB's for this kit at the price of $250.00 plus shipping. You can order through [email protected] or calling 310-428-7716.
Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Thank you,

OK i was searching for 8g suspension (4 years back) and found this to be interesting when comparing to the 3g... hope this would help some people...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dram3000

Ok, this post is going to be really long, but hopefully anyone else experiencing the same situation as me, might be able to get something from it.

I have a 2001 Galant I-4. I wanted to lower it, so I started doing my homework on what things to consider. I chose not to go the coil-over route (money is my reason). So from there I started looking into different brands of lowering springs, how much drop, prices, pics of other Galants with certain brand springs, etc. I took into consideration as much info as I could get my hands on.

For my Galant, and my scenario, I only want a drop of essentially 1.5" all around. I did not want to have the type of worries I have had with other cars I have owned/own. I didn't want to worry about having 4 people in the car, creeping over and up speedbumps/driveways, excessive tire rubbing, etc. Also, I plan to use the factory struts (as long as I can anyways), so staying about 1.5" and under seemed to be the safer bet.

After looking into many different companies and spring applications, I learned that the drop heights offered went from very subtle like an Eibach pro-kit (1.2" front 1.0" rear) to more than what I want (like 1.7"-2.2" all around). I don't recall seeing any spring with a cool 1.5" drop.

Moving on - I have used Eibachs before on other cars. They have always treated me great. Naturally, I looked into Eibach springs first. As I mentioned, the drop was the least amount, but it appeared to be closer to the amount I desired, than any other springs. My choice was made, I bought the Pro-kit.

Then I learned that since my car is only an I-4 Galant, that I would lose over a 1/4" (give or take) based on the I-4 being lighter than a V-6 (which the Pro-kit was designed for the V-6 only).

Considering the drop is only subtle to begin with, I figured if I install the Pro-kit, my cars drop could very possibly be as little as about 0.8" front and maybe 0.6" rear. In my eyes, considering how high the Galants sit to start with, my ride wouldn't look lowered at all. And I wasn't about to drop $200-300 and have it not even appear to be lowered.

As you all know, Galants have exceptionally big front wheel wells, as well, as wheel well gap. Being that I will get less drop with my I-4, the way I see it is, if I go with some springs with equal drop front and rear, the rear end may very well look like its dragging. I would rather have the rear a tad higher if anything - definitely not lower.

I then started looking into other options, and listening to other ideas (This board absolutely helped me out a lot by the way...thanks everyone!). Anyways, I started looking more and more into the Eclipse lowering spring applications. Once again, I started with Eibach, and sure enough the Pro-kit for the Eclipse 3G seemed to be my solution.

It has a listed drop of 1.6" in the front and 1.4" in the rear. My dreams have been answered. Only now I have to check into if they will fit and if I would or wouldn't be getting myself into trouble later down the line for using them.

The first responses I got from various sources was the weight issue. "The Galant is a heavier car" is what I heard many times. But after making some comparisons between the two, I learned some models are heavier, some aren't...and vice versa from the Eclipse to the Galant.

Below are some factors I felt the need to compare between the two cars.

Galant 8G

ES model (I-4) - Curb weight = 3075lbs. Weight distribution (front/rear %) = 60.6/39.4

GTZ model (V-6) - Curb weight = 3296lbs. Weight distribution (front/rear %) = 62.2/37.7

Curb weight average = 3185.5lbs.

Curb weight difference - The I-4 is 221lbs lighter than the GTZ

Weight distribution average (front/rear %) = 61.4/38.5

Weight distribution difference - The I-4 is (front/rear %) = -1.6/+1.7

Eclipse 3G

GT model (V-6) - Curb weight (w/AT) = 3120lbs. Weight distribution (w/AT) (front/rear %) = 64/36

Spyder GT (V-6) - Curb weight (w/AT) = 3307lbs. Weight distribution (w/AT) (front/rear %) = 64/36

Curb weight average = 3213.5lbs.

Curb weight difference - The Spyder GT is 187lbs. heavier

Weight distribution average (front/rear %) = 64/36

Weight distribution difference - None

(Note - I used specs from 2001 listings.)

Now what does all those specs mean, you ask.

Well, most lowering springs for the Eclipse are also made for the V-6 models only. I took the average curb weight of the lightest and heaviest V-6 Eclipse models...and applied that directly to the I-4 Galant and here's what I come up with.

The I-4 Galant is only 138lbs. lighter than the V-6 Eclipse curb weight average. But it is 221lbs lighter than a V-6 Galant (GTZ).

The I-4 Galant weight distribution difference is only (front/rear %) -3.4/+3.4 in comparison to the Eclipse.

To put a bottomline on all this mumble jumble, the differences between the Galant I-4 and Eclipse V-6 are more minimal than the differences between the I-4 Galant versus a V-6 Galant.

Therefore, I feel if I go with a lowering spring for an Eclipse V-6 (ideally the Eibach Pro-kit), I would get pretty damn close to the actual drop listing. Which for me, would be perfect on my I-4 Galant.

The listing for the Eclipse pro-kit is (1.6" front, 1.4" rear). I'm thinking those springs on my I-4 Galant would put me in the neighborhood of around 1.4" front and 1.2" rear. Plus the car should look even since the springs are made for different drop heights.

As far as how they perform - of course each spring is specifically made for a certain car, so the way it reacts on a different car will come into play. But considering how minimal even the weight distribution difference is between the Galant and Eclipse, I don't see any major issues. I'm thinking the overall ride quality and how it reacts overall, will be very similar.

I know, I know, this was a long way to get to what I wanted to say. But I figured if I put out all my thoughts and facts up front, hopefully following posts' and questions might be already answered within.

By the way, from the help of this board, I got my info that the Eclipse springs will fit. Thanks to Tiller, RedGalant2k1, and Pinoyesv6 for verifying this.

All of the above is only my thought process. If anyone catches any errors in my thinking, please respond. After all this board is about building.

Well, let me shut up now haha.

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hey i got a question, i just ordered megan springs that will lowert my g 2 inches in the back and 1.8 in the front, and i ordered kyb-gr-2 struts/shocks. I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me if i need to get a camber kit with it or no? thanks alot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J-Sykes

hey i got a question, i just ordered megan springs that will lowert my g 2 inches in the back and 1.8 in the front, and i ordered kyb-gr-2 struts/shocks. I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me if i need to get a camber kit with it or no? thanks alot

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probably, but the only way to know for sure is get an alignment and ask the technicians. you are going to get an alignment after the drop/shock install anyways right?

Wow great Info

Answered my question. I'm lately leaning towards Eibach Pro Kit springs (Eclipse). I want a drop, but not to low...looking in the 1.5 range for my G. Between the Eibach and Teins. I may go with the Eibach and see how they will do and later go with Teins since its my DD.

This site is the greatest with all the info....

VERY old thread. I didn't know this site had been around that long. I'd like to know what the OP's qualifications were to be making such broad statements. Lowering a car is not an instant handling improvement technique. Dropping it can change suspension angles, limit travel and make the car handle WORSE. A lot of options for longer ball joints to "correct" for this are on the market but they still don't actually fix the suspension geometry for all the parts. To drop a car properly you actually have to raise the mounting points on the chassis UP. That said, most people won't/can't do that.

A quick check to see if you're dropped to far is to poke your head under your ride and look at the angles the control arms are at. Generally speaking, if they are angling up from the body to the wheel you're too low. From the factory a car will usually sit with the control arms angling down or level. You can check what your normal control arm angle is before dropping the car too.

good day, i just want to know whats wrong with my galant's rear suspension. it makes a hard knocking sound when running on a bumpy road. It seem's like a metal-to-metal sound? cound that be cause by a worn out rubber bushing? when i checked the rear suspension, i saw a lot of them (rubber bushings). which of them coudl be the first one to wear out? thank you guys, for helping...

Very comprehensive. well done, thanks for the info, you are a valuable part on the community thank you!