afc...

[the_kage]

does having an AFC replace the need for a air/fuel gauge? or they both essential in tunning?

[peanotation]

S-AFC has a built in air/fuel meter, i'd always keep an extra air/fuel gauge, which will allow you to project other readings on the afc, and it looks cool to have seperate readers

[sethmo]

SAFC has a built in A/F meter? Mine didnt. THe A/F gauge is crap. The EGT gauges is also crap for tuning, it should be used as a warning gauge. The only gauge you should tune with is with a wideband 02 everything esle is too inaccurate for tuning

[StreetDreams]

S-AFC does not have an air/fuel gauge! Maybe the 2nd version of it does but I doubt it. It would be benificial to run an air/fuel gauge when using an S-AFC so that when you are tuning you can detect dangerously lean situations.

Sethmo, I've heard of the wideband o2 but have limited information on what it does. Never really talked to anybody using it. What are the benifits, price, and availablity? If using a wideband o2 can the rear o2 still be eliminated?

[sethmo]

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

Stock 02 sensors are narrow band, wideband lets you see what is exactly hapenning with your afr. Narrow band 02s can only read lean or rich, thats why the a/f gauge bounces around so much.

Best/cheapest way to tune is to get a wideband 02 system and a pocketlogger. You cant go wrong.

[StreetDreams]

Thanks Sethmo...so without the pocketlogger this doesn't have any benefits? Basically the only thing a wideband o2 changes is the way the ecu reads information from the sensor?

[sethmo]

Yah and a wideband allows the pocket logger or the LCD screen if you buy it to display the correct afr. Then you use your safc to adjust it.

[StreetDreams]

Are you running a wideband o2? If so, are you using a pocketlogger or the lcd screen? What would be the benefits/differences between using the lcd screen and the pocketlogger?

Do you see what happens? Somebody says something about a new 'toy' and there goes all my money!

It seems like the wideband o2 would be a must for high boost applications. Since I am doing the DOHC head swap and adding turbo it would probably be beneficial for me to get one. What do ya think?

[sethmo]

I dont have one yet, its on my "wish list". As soon as I get my car up and running I am going to look into getting one though. I have heard nothing but good things about tuning with a wideband 02 system.

And I will most likely opt not to go with the LCD screen. I will just use my palm or my laptop. I guess one of the perks of the LCD is you could mount it somewhere unlike a palm(not so easy) or laptop...

[JiP]

A) No afc ever made yet has built in A/F guage. There at one time was a MOD that hooked up one of the unused wires on the AFC to the o2 guage and it would display a/f under like 2nd maf reading of the afc somethin like that anyway that has long disapeard since people realized it royally f'd up the o2 signal and caused major problems in driving. Bad Idea. So yes you still need an AF guage. Which I been finding out is only somewhat useful under WOT tuning the rest of the time you need a logger to view the fuel trims...(but im def no expert in tuning)

Wideband o2 is nifty for tuning but Wideband o2 DOESNOT replace the stock o2 sensor in the car unless you buy the adapter that outputs the 0-1v signal for the ecu line, and then the wideband output goes to your wideband guage. Your stock ecu doesnt want to read a wideband it wants its stock sensor. So either you have to buy the adapter and run just the wideband, or you drill a hole and weld on another bung close to where your current o2 sensor is and screw in your windeband.

Your second o2 sensor has nothing to do with anytihng at all. Its emissions crap.

[StreetDreams]

Thanks for the info fellas.
So, the 2nd o2 can be eliminated correct?

[sethmo]

Yes it can, either buy a Sim or do this:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/O2bypass.html

[JiP]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=7907443383

This what I use =D

[sethmo]

Sweet, Im buying one

[StreetDreams]

8) Jip, looks like the way to go. Thanks

[AWDsuperstar]

Actually the Afc does read the o2, its called the blue wire mod. It reads the exact same info that a autometer a/f reads. Only it doesn't have pretty lights. Thats all the any of the a/f gauges read, the voltage from the o2. Basically worthless for tuning. They really just give you a rough idea. To tune, you must have a wideband to get the most hp. IMO

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sethmo)</div><div class='quotemain'>SAFC has a built in A/F meter? Â*Mine didnt. Â*THe A/F gauge is crap. Â*The EGT gauges is also crap for tuning, it should be used as a warning gauge. Â*The only gauge you should tune with is with a wideband 02 everything esle is too inaccurate for tuning</div>
Yay for smart people!

[JiP]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AWDsuperstar)</div><div class='quotemain'>Actually the Afc does read the o2, its called the blue wire mod. Â*It reads the exact same info that a autometer a/f reads. Â*Only it doesn't have pretty lights. Â*Thats all the any of the a/f gauges read, the voltage from the o2. Â*Basically worthless for tuning. Â*They really just give you a rough idea. Â*To tune, you must have a wideband to get the most hp. Â*IMO</div>

Obviously someone doesnt read posts before posting.... I already talked about the mod and HOW PEOPLE DONT DO IT ANYMORE! scroll up and read.

[AWDsuperstar]

I did read your previous post. But you said that it is not needed but a a/f gauge is. A/F gauges, such as autometer, reads the exact same info that the afc would be reading. Autometer a/f gauges and other cheap a/f gauges are good for having some blinking lights in your car not for any type of tuning. IMO, don't waste your money on a a/f gauge, just get a wideband. If you have a afc and you want to know what your narrow band o2 is reading, hook up the blue wire.

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to state my opinion.

Joe

[ken inn]

If you have a afc and you want to know what your narrow band o2 is reading, hook up the blue wire. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>

the reason the blue wire mod dont work, is that it adds impedance to the o2 sensor, and the ecu does not get the correct reading. Â*in closed loop operation, this means the fuel trims will be off. Â*not a whole lot, but they will be off. Â*when i did the blue wire mod, i immediatly noticed my o2 trims were different. Â*i readjusted my afc to compensate for the new settings. Â*later on, i read some posts about the mod, and i disconnected the blue wire. Â*again, i had to readjust the afc for the new settings. Â*not a whole lot, but enough to convince me that the blue wire mod should not be used. Â*i dont pay much attention to o2 voltage, only to be sure it is cycling. Â*o2 trim is way more useful. </div>