Broken timing belt-Pictures

[pesuazo]

My wife's mitsu broke the timing belt (replaced only 40K miles ago).
Upon removal of the head (at least 8 bent valves, by the prints on the pistons), I realized I do not know where that hole to line up the balance shaft is. Can anyone post a picture of the location?
Also, the crankshaft position sensor was destroyed and the metal piece (flange) was bent, is that something I can purchase at any autoparts store?
I am trying to figure out a way to upload pictures to show the marks on the pistons and the cylinder head.
The car gas now 125K

[rfpa1]

Welcome to the timing belt curse.

1) if you have bent valves, you ned to take the head to be rebuilt. You might as well rebuilt the engine at this time if you can or get a used one. You need to check the pistons and the crankshaft. They hit very hard against the valves and you could have a bent rod.

If you are going to rebuilt the engine remove the balance shaft. All of the parts you can order from a couple of places on the net. I use a couple of places: www.rockauto.com, http://www.cherryhilltriplex.com/ and Fred Beans.

Good luck

[pesuazo]

The machine shop called today, 5 intake and 1 exhaust valves bent.
Total parts and labor to redo the head 250.00.
The pistons appear to be fine except for the dents where the valves hit, the engine turns nice and smoothly using the manual crankshaft method.
I think there is no problem with the pistons and rods.
I found this method to align the balancing shaft (since I cannot locate the plug to use the screwdriver method):
Turn the oil pump gear until the timing mark is at 12 o'clock and release it.
If it turns clockwise (towards 3 o'clock) the balance shaft is out of phase.
Turn the gear one revolution and release it again, If it turn counterclockwise (towards the timing mark on the engine, 10 o'clock), the balance shaft is in phase. Line up all timing marks, set the distributor to cylinder 1, set the engine to TDC and install the timing belts making sure nothing moves during the process.

Is this procedure correct?
Will it be safe if I follow this instead of using the screwdriver method?

Thanks for the replies.

[seth98esT]

You are correct. The plug to check the balance shaft is on the back of the block. There is a bolt(12mm I think) about 6-12" from the left side of the back of the block. Just unbolt it and you can stick a screw driver in. You can turn the oil pump pulley a bit and the shaft will hit the screw driver. Just make sure you can stick the screw driver in a good 8" or so.



Heres the entire VFaq for the 2g T(not 100% accurate in our cases since we have SOHC, but close enough)
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

[pesuazo]

seth98esT,
Credit to that website is well deserved, that is where I got the information from.
Soooooo, I will do it by the "turn the oil pump pulley procedure", but will search again tonight for that darn plug (screwdiver method).

Sorry to keep bothering you but:
What are the torque specs. for the water pump, transmission and oil pans,
cylinder head, valve cover and drain plugs (oil and transmission)?

By the way, I noticed to 2 drain plugs for the transmission (Since everything is apart I am using the opportunity to do a super duper transmission/engine tuneup)

Thanks for your help.

[seth98esT]

I dont know all the torque specs off hand. But the valve cover is something like 8ftlbs.

There are 2 plus on the tranny, upper is fill, lower is drain.

[pesuazo]

http://img120.exs.cx/img120/5959/p10100163gj.jpg

http://img102.exs.cx/img102/4827/p10100219oo.jpg

http://img32.exs.cx/img32/34/p10100243gq.jpg

http://img85.exs.cx/img85/5427/p10100290bc.jpg

In the last picture you can clearly see the dents made by ALL the intake valves. Only one exhaust valve hit a cylinder (all the way to the left).

[JiP]

sucks but the pistons dont look like they are in bad shape. If you got any pics of the what the head looks like i'd like too see.

And if your in the market for an sohc head (~50k on it) send me a PM.

[pesuazo]

A mechanic friend of mine stopped by, and also commented that the pistons are fine. He also said that IF there is a degradation in performance, it will be so small it will be imperceptible. And knowing my wife, this car could run in 2 cylinders and she still would not know the difference.
What do you think of the cleaning job on the pistons?
Like I mentioned before, 5 intake valves and 1 exhaust are bent beyond repair and are being replaced.
One intake valve was barely bent, the machine shop touched it up and fixed it, they say it does not need replacement. I was in the shop today and saw the head, they were about to finish cleaning it and where going to work on the valve seats afterwards.
Here are a couple of pics of the head when I removed it, will post pics again when I get it back from the machine shop.
Thanks for the offer, but I do not think a need a new cylinder head. I will get in touch with you if I need one.


http://img68.exs.cx/img68/9307/p10100224ff.jpg

http://img68.exs.cx/img68/1862/p10100235wa.jpg

[SamirDarji]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pesuazo)</div><div class='quotemain'>What are the torque specs. for the water pump, transmission and oil pans,
cylinder head, valve cover and drain plugs (oil and transmission)?</div>
I had all this typed in, but then the $#%#% asked me to log in again and I lost it all. So here it is typed in again from my Factory Service Manual (best investment ever):
2 water pump bolts--14Nm (10ft/lbs)
transmission pan--11Nm (8ft/lbs)
transmission filter--6Nm (5ft/lbs)
transmission drain plug--33Nm (24ft/lbs)
oil pan--7-8Nm (5-6ft/lbs)
oil drain plug--39-40Nm (29ft/lbs)
valve cover--Confusing. One diagram shows 3.4Nm (2.5ft/lbs) another shows 33Nm (24ft/lbs)
cylinder head--complicated:
First, because you don't have the diagram that I do, we need to label the 10 bolt locations. Looking at the cylinder head from above and down onto the holes, position the head so that the intake side is away from you and the exhaust is facing you. Label the intake row A-E from left to right. Label the exhaust row F-J from left to right. Now follow these directions:
1. Tighten to 78 Nm (58ft/lbs) in this order h-c-g-d-b-i-a-j-f-e
2. Fully loosen in the reverse order of step 1
3. Tighten to 20 NM (15ft/lbs) in the order in step 1
4. Mark the cylinder head bolt and cylinder head by paint in a straight line. It should run over the head of the bolt and mark the edge of the cylinder head. Tighten 90 deg in the order of step 1. The mark on the bolt should now be perpendicular with the head.
5. Tighten 90 deg in the order of step 1. The mark on the bolt should now be lined back up with the one on the head.
Caution:
1. Always make a tightening angle just 90 deg. If it is less than 90 deg, the head bolt will be loosened.
2. If it is more than 90 deg, remove the head bolt and repeat the procedure from step 1.

Hope this helps!

[8G_GTZ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SamirDarji)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pesuazo)</div><div class='quotemain'>What are the torque specs. for the water pump, transmission and oil pans,
cylinder head, valve cover and drain plugs (oil and transmission)?</div>
I had all this typed in, but then the $#%#% asked me to log in again and I lost it all. So here it is typed in again from my Factory Service Manual (best investment ever):
2 water pump bolts--14Nm (10ft/lbs)
transmission pan--11Nm (8ft/lbs)
transmission filter--6Nm (5ft/lbs)
transmission drain plug--33Nm (24ft/lbs)
oil pan--7-8Nm (5-6ft/lbs)
oil drain plug--39-40Nm (29ft/lbs)
valve cover--Confusing. One diagram shows 3.4Nm (2.5ft/lbs) another shows 33Nm (24ft/lbs)
cylinder head--complicated:
First, because you don't have the diagram that I do, we need to label the 10 bolt locations. Looking at the cylinder head from above and down onto the holes, position the head so that the intake side is away from you and the exhaust is facing you. Label the intake row A-E from left to right. Label the exhaust row F-J from left to right. Now follow these directions:
1. Tighten to 78 Nm (58ft/lbs) in this order h-c-g-d-b-i-a-j-f-e
2. Fully loosen in the reverse order of step 1
3. Tighten to 20 NM (15ft/lbs) in the order in step 1
4. Mark the cylinder head bolt and cylinder head by paint in a straight line. It should run over the head of the bolt and mark the edge of the cylinder head. Tighten 90 deg in the order of step 1. The mark on the bolt should now be perpendicular with the head.
5. Tighten 90 deg in the order of step 1. The mark on the bolt should now be lined back up with the one on the head.
Caution:
1. Always make a tightening angle just 90 deg. If it is less than 90 deg, the head bolt will be loosened.
2. If it is more than 90 deg, remove the head bolt and repeat the procedure from step 1.

Hope this helps!</div>

do you know if these numbers apply to the DOHC head? if so thanks, if not, would you be able to get em for me? i might go up to the library soon anyways though. thanks if you can.

steve

[pesuazo]

Thanks for the specs Samir.

I got the head back from the machine shop today.
Here are the picks, for those interested (the batteries for the camera were running out, so the flash was very weak)

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/2205/p10100335no.jpg

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/7193/p10100344zv.jpg

[SamirDarji]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shogun7g)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SamirDarji)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pesuazo)</div><div class='quotemain'>What are the torque specs. for the water pump, transmission and oil pans,
cylinder head, valve cover and drain plugs (oil and transmission)?</div>
I had all this typed in, but then the $#%#% asked me to log in again and I lost it all. So here it is typed in again from my Factory Service Manual (best investment ever):
2 water pump bolts--14Nm (10ft/lbs)
transmission pan--11Nm (8ft/lbs)
transmission filter--6Nm (5ft/lbs)
transmission drain plug--33Nm (24ft/lbs)
oil pan--7-8Nm (5-6ft/lbs)
oil drain plug--39-40Nm (29ft/lbs)
valve cover--Confusing. One diagram shows 3.4Nm (2.5ft/lbs) another shows 33Nm (24ft/lbs)
cylinder head--complicated:
First, because you don't have the diagram that I do, we need to label the 10 bolt locations. Looking at the cylinder head from above and down onto the holes, position the head so that the intake side is away from you and the exhaust is facing you. Label the intake row A-E from left to right. Label the exhaust row F-J from left to right. Now follow these directions:
1. Tighten to 78 Nm (58ft/lbs) in this order h-c-g-d-b-i-a-j-f-e
2. Fully loosen in the reverse order of step 1
3. Tighten to 20 NM (15ft/lbs) in the order in step 1
4. Mark the cylinder head bolt and cylinder head by paint in a straight line. It should run over the head of the bolt and mark the edge of the cylinder head. Tighten 90 deg in the order of step 1. The mark on the bolt should now be perpendicular with the head.
5. Tighten 90 deg in the order of step 1. The mark on the bolt should now be lined back up with the one on the head.
Caution:
1. Always make a tightening angle just 90 deg. If it is less than 90 deg, the head bolt will be loosened.
2. If it is more than 90 deg, remove the head bolt and repeat the procedure from step 1.

Hope this helps!</div>

do you know if these numbers apply to the DOHC head? if so thanks, if not, would you be able to get em for me? i might go up to the library soon anyways though. thanks if you can.

steve</div>
I don't know if they can apply to the DOHC head. Probably not. I'm thinking about getting a 94 FSM so that I can see the DOHC engine setup as well as the schematic on the rear disc brakes.

[SamirDarji]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pesuazo)</div><div class='quotemain'>http://img57.exs.cx/img57/2205/p10100335no.jpg</div>Wow, this shot almost looks like what is in the FSM, except that I don't know which side is the intake and which is exhaust (the cam gear doesn't show in the FSM). It's neat to see what the bolt placements look like in real life. Thanks for the pic!

[JiP]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SamirDarji)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pesuazo)</div><div class='quotemain'>http://img57.exs.cx/img57/2205/p10100335no.jpg</div>Wow, this shot almost looks like what is in the FSM, except that I don't know which side is the intake and which is exhaust (the cam gear doesn't show in the FSM). It's neat to see what the bolt placements look like in real life. Thanks for the pic!</div>

Good lord...picture urself looking under your hood and its kinda obvious which are the intake. The top valvs are teh intake, bottom exhaust. Another clue are the studs poking out the side, only the exhaust side has all studs, the intake side uses all bolts except the 2 ends are studs.

[SamirDarji]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JiP)</div><div class='quotemain'>Good lord...picture urself looking under your hood and its kinda obvious which are the intake. Â*The top valvs are teh intake, bottom exhaust. Â*Another clue are the studs poking out the side, only the exhaust side has all studs, the intake side uses all bolts except the 2 ends are studs.</div>
I didn't think about it that way. But now that I do, are you sure that you're right? The cam gear is to the right of the intake ports and exhaust ports when you're looking in the engine bay. In the pictures, the cam gear is on the left, making the top exhaust and bottom intake.

[pesuazo]

OK, it seems I am losing my mind looking for that darn plug (balancing belt screwdriver method).
If I am standing facing the front of the engine (looking from drivers side fender), is it to my right? (under or above the intake?), or to my left?(under or above the exhaust?).

[JiP]

Good lord...picture urself looking under your hood and its kinda obvious which are the intake. The top valvs are teh intake, bottom exhaust. Another clue are the studs poking out the side, only the exhaust side has all studs, the intake side uses all bolts except the 2 ends are studs.

I didn't think about it that way. But now that I do, are you sure that you're right? The cam gear is to the right of the intake ports and exhaust ports when you're looking in the engine bay. In the pictures, the cam gear is on the left, making the top exhaust and bottom intake.

The bottom ports are still the exhaust...flip the head over in ur brain..when the head flips face up the cam is on the right but the exhaust/intake ports stay where they are their number order changes but the top still intake.

[SamirDarji]

The bottom ports are still the exhaust...flip the head over in ur brain..when the head flips face up the cam is on the right but the exhaust/intake ports stay where they are their number order changes but the top still intake.

Ahhh...you're looking at this picture:
http://img57.exs.cx/img57/7193/p10100344zv.jpg

I was looking at the other one, lol.

[pesuazo]

I am posting it again:

THE BALANCING BELT PLUG
If I am standing facing the front of the engine (looking from drivers side fender), FACING THE CAMSHAFT
is it to my right? (under or above the intake?)
or to my left?(under or above the exhaust?)

WERE IS IT?????


seth98esT was kind enough to post a sketch/diagram, but looking at it does no justice to me when I compare it with my engine.