Ethanol?

[WarmAndSCSI]

I'm actually converting the ol' Galant to run on E-85 because of it's horsepower potential (it has the octane of race gas).

Evo guys have been running it with no problem. Any fuel system designed for ANY percentage of ethanol will work with E-85. A manufacturer isn't going to design a fuel system to be "partially compatible" with ethanol. The 8G for sure is designed to be used with 10% ethanol gasoline, so I'm confident its fuel system can run E-85.

The problem is the tuning. I'll be richening up the mix about 30% in order to get it back to stoich. This should be good for some serious WHP.

Gonna need at least 700cc injectorsto make this happen.

Just watch out for the idiots saying you should be tuning to 9.7:1 AFR. This is not true with a lambda-based wideband - 14.7 or 1.00 lambda will always be stoichiometric on ANY type of fuel unless you can program the wideband for different fuels.

My references:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=303832

[ohgrfreak]

um, i don't have the issue with me here, but i have a consumer reports in the house somewhere that states the energy rating for ethanol is signifigantly lower than that of basic pump gas. less power, less miles per gallon. Being cheaper and cleaner are it's only real advantages.

[WarmAndSCSI]

um, i don't have the issue with me here, but i have a consumer reports in the house somewhere that states the energy rating for ethanol is signifigantly lower than that of basic pump gas. less power, less miles per gallon. Being cheaper and cleaner are it's only real advantages.

Many sources make a big deal about E85 having less thermal energy per gallon that a gallon of gas. They frequently draw the false conclusion that you cannot make more power on E85 than you can on gasoline. E85 actually has a higher specific energy than gasoline, and at proper mixtures releases more thermal energy in the cylinder for a given amount of air to burn. Since an internal combustion engines power output is primarily air supply limited this means you can make 5% to nearly 30% more power on E85 than you can on gasoline.

Typical gasoline Thermal energy 19,000 BTU/lb max power fuel air mixture 12.5:1
Typical E85 Thermal energy 13,475 BTU/lb max power fuel air mixture 6.975:1
Typical ethanol Thermal energy 12,500 BTU/lb 6.429:1

If you are consuming 100 lbs of air, lets see how much fuel energy you release for each of these fuels using gasoline as the base 100% reference.
100/12.5 = 8 lbs of gasoline @ 19,000 BTU/lb = 152,000 BTU = 100%
100/6.975 = 14.337 lbs of E85 @ 13,475 BTU/lb = 193,189.9 BTU = 127% more heat energy
100/6.429 = 15.555 lbs of Ethanol @ 12,500 BTU/lb = 194431.5 BTU = 128.9% more heat energy

A 5% increase in engine power is common on NA engines with minimal conversion changes, and much higher numbers are possible if compression or boost is used to take advantage of E85's higher fuel octane.

You should read the stuff I posted.

And about the usual hype the media puts out: the reason FlexFuel vehicles get crappy mileage is because their tunes aren't designed to take advantage of the potential of E-85. They are designed to be run on either 85-87 octane gasoline or E-85 which is much higher octane (above 100). This means less timing advance and less power/efficiency when you do run E-85 on a FlexFuel vehicle.

A good tune for straight E-85 can be lucrative for gas mileage and power, though.

[ohgrfreak]

Ahhhhh, that hurts my brain. Sounds like a lot of work and tuning, good luck to you, however I would not have the faintest idea what those numbers mean. It makes more power because the BTU rating release their energy at different points in the A/F ratio? And once properly tuned to that ratio, poof, more power than the actual power rating would lead one to believe?

Why aren't idiot automakers seeing this, I would only assume that this would have caught on better by now if this is the case.

[6G72gearhead]

Dont be so quick to jump on the E85 bandwagon, sure right now its cheaper but it also takes 3 barrels of oil to produce a barrel of ethanol. And the liberals want us to be dependent on it?

Top fuel drag racers do not use pure ethanol, they are using %85 Nitromethane and %15 Methanol.

Geez Blue Ice where did you find it for 3.05 last I checked the dillons by my house was selling 87 for 2.09 it may be more I have to go fill up anyways. 91 FTW

Dude, it's like, years later, gas was over 3 bucks a gallon constantly back then. Well actually, having since moved back to Iowa, gas hit 3 bucks again for a couple days a week ago in the central Iowa area, still horrible, the prices aren't going to go down and stay down are they?

I saw that several months after I posted that.

[WarmAndSCSI]

Why aren't idiot automakers seeing this, I would only assume that this would have caught on better by now if this is the case.

Because all domestic car makers are in bed with the oil companies And I'm serious. It will be a long time before this country makes a complete move to alternative fuels.