Turbo size

[leadfoot]

I am putting together a PARTS LIST for my turbo setup. I'm going to be running in a few months, and I need some help. I will be running 550cc injectors, greddy e-management and a medium sized FMIC. I wont be running anything more than 14 pounds, because I'm not building the motor until a later date. I have been told that a T3 T4 .63 ADR turbo would be ideal, but I thought I would ask the professionals to make sure that I am going with the correct setup.

[peanotation]

hmmm, personally, i wouldn't run more than 8psi on stock internals. once you hit 8psi the first time you'll be happy......for a while. technically you shouldn't be able to run 8psi on our internals, but between the compression ratio and good tuning you can sneak away with it. the few people i've personally known to bring up the boost wound up with blown motors after a short while. i'm sure there's guys running 16psi all day on their stock 4g64s though....

and a 14b or small 16g is perfect for our motors. 14b hits boost at the perfect moment in the turbo I4s i've been in

[josh_877]

14b is magic

[leadfoot]

From that ive heard the 14b and 16g are to small for our apps. i hear they spool way to quick for our blocks, well thats what i hear from the guys over in the eclipse board. anyway thanks for your help anyone else have thoughs on the matter.

[ChikagoGTZ]

15G!!!

[Jet Black]

From that ive heard the 14b and 16g are to small for our apps. i hear they spool way to quick for our blocks, well thats what i hear from the guys over in the eclipse board. anyway thanks for your help anyone else have thoughs on the matter.

Which eclipse boards? Cause if its the 2l guys, then tell them to OMGSTFUNOOB. Real world experience > PWNS TEH FUCK out of bench racing. Peano is using a 14b. As are quite a few other members. Personally, in my ricer experience I think a 16G would be a great idea for you 2.4L guys.

[peanotation]

i hear they spool way to quick for our blocks

so? if you don't overwork it in the higher rpms, what does it matter?

Which eclipse boards? Cause if its the 2l guys, then tell them to OMGSTFUNOOB. Real world experience > PWNS TEH FUCK out of bench racing. Peano is using a 14b. As are quite a few other members. Personally, in my ricer experience I think a 16G would be a great idea for you 2.4L guys.

actually i'm using a 13g. now i can legitamately complain about the turbo boosting too early because i can't even cruise on the highway and give it an ounce of throttle without spooling it to 0psi.

if the 14b and small 16g arn't good, then why is almost everyone with the 2.4L using it? it sounds like you want more top end torque, i would get a 16g. but 8psi is 8psi, both the 14b and 16g can hold that to redline on our motors. the 16g would hold it more comfortably than the 14b though

[seth98esT]

Meh Id go either 14b with bullseye housing or FP 18g with bullseye housing. You can controll the spoolup RPM with the bullseye housing.

[leadfoot]

well thats why i came back to the galant boards and asked cause it sounded to me like the turbos would be too big, or at least for what im trying to run (T3 T4 .634 ADR) and 14 pounds was way to much for stock internals even with the proper fuel management. I am most likely going to go with a big 14b and then just upgrade it when im ready.

[seth98esT]

There is only one size for a 14b. Do you mean a bigh 16g?

[peanotation]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(leadfoot)</div><div class='quotemain'> I am most likely going to go with a big 14b and then just upgrade it when im ready.</div>

good, this is probably the most recomended route. throw the 14b on and get everything working as smooth as butter, then go for the big leagues

[leadfoot]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seth98esT)</div><div class='quotemain'>There is only one size for a 14b. Â*Do you mean a bigh 16g?</div>

i dont know what i was thinking :oops: . so it's 14b for the first one i know where will be many different turbo and setups im going to run on the car. I dont want to rush into things so im going to go with a 14b and probably be more than happy with it. thanks for all your help guys ill keep you posted but first i got to get a 5-speed in her cause my auto is slippin and is gonna give out anyday now. :shock:

[DOHCstunr]

yeah definatly, if your auto is slipping with no boost, imagine it with boost.
5 speed first bro. or a rebuild
good luck

[4-G-rim]

14b is a great turbo and it spools nicely with the 2.4L...but I am thinking of upgrading in the beginning of the year. Right now I am running 9psi and it pulls HARD. With good tuning...you can get a stock internal 4g64 to run right at around 10-11psi. A 16g would be a better more efficient turbo especially on top end and you can run lower boost with better flow.

[seth98esT]

You put down any numbers yet Kevin?

[leadfoot]

o.k so which is better i got someone telling me the 14b pull hard but the 16g is a better more efficient turbo so... now what , good thing i came on the board to talk about this.

[Jet Black]

o.k so which is better i got someone telling me the 14b pull hard but the 16g is a better more efficient turbo so... now what , good thing i came on the board to talk about this.

Well, as pointed out above, a 14b might be better if it's your first time turboing.

Personally, I would take the 14b any day of the week. After seeing how hard Peano's car was able to pull on the 13g, the instantanious boost responce is to die for.

[seth98esT]

The 16g is bigger then the 14b. The 14b flows a max of 430cfm. Small 16g = 520cfm, Big 16g = 512cfm, Evo3 16g = 580cfm. Obviously the more air the turbo can push, the more power you can make as long as A)Your motor can handle it, and B)You have the fuel and tuning to tame it.

Dont ask me why the small 16g flows more then the big 16g according to those maps. The big 16g has a larger turbine housing(7cm) and technically should floor more. I know they use different compressor wheels, maybe thats where it lies.

Im not expert on compression maps so I cannot say which turbo is perfect for your application. If you want to run stock internals and 8-10psi I can do some calculations on all four turbos and see which one would be most efficient for you.

[SPEEDDEMON03]

Im not expert on compression maps so I cannot say which turbo is perfect for your application. If you want to run stock internals and 8-10psi I can do some calculations on all four turbos and see which one would be most efficient for you.

would definately like to see

[Jet Black]

*warning* The math below maybe 100% innaccurate. I'm only basing the whp figures off what I percieve to be the relationship between cfm and whp. I.E. CFM is directly proportional to power...

Well looking at compressor maps alone, the small 16g is putting out around 430 cfm, where as the large 16g is putting out 400 (wtf is up with that?), and the 14b is putting out around 350 cfm. < - this is all at 1.6 bar or 8-9 psi.

80% VE for 2.4l @ 6000 RPM ~ 200 cfm @ 120 whp < for 5spd w/ 15% DTL

So around 1.6 bar he should be putting down:
small 16g: 430 cfm / 200 cfm = 2.15 ratio
2.15 x 120 whp = 260ish

large 16g - 400 / 200 = 2
2 x 120 whp = 240ish

14b - 350 / 200 = 1.75
1.75 x 120 whp = 210sih



Look good so far? Now the spool up part is quite a bit more complicated. This might be of some help (a few posts down they discuss moment of inertia, which i take is the moment of full boost).
some thread at 3s

Also, just to further reinforce the shaddy-ass math above. Peano made 180 peak whp. Now taking into account his 5spd swap, lets say his normally 140 hp engine w/15% DTL was putting down 120 whp. A 13g at around 8-9 psi is putting out about 300 cfm.

So, 300 cfm (13g) / 200 cfm (stock)= 1.5
1.5 x 120 whp = 180 whp.

So anyways, that is some SHADDY ass math. Working the question to fit the answer is a bad way of doing math...