Stall convertor vs. 5 speed swap

[Tearstone]

I was faced with this quandry a few months ago when I had all the parts I needed to swap over to a 5 speed. Then I took a ride in another Turbo 3G that had a torque convertor installed and I totally sold everything to you all and invested in one of the torque convertors we have available. The more power you make in the realm of forced induction, the better having the automatic/spottronic becomes. I am laying the path for at least 500whp, and I don't think a 5 speed is going to be too friendly with that.

[Stewi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'>I was faced with this quandry a few months ago when I had all the parts I needed to swap over to a 5 speed. Then I took a ride in another Turbo 3G that had a torque convertor installed and I totally sold everything to you all and invested in one of the torque convertors we have available. The more power you make in the realm of forced induction, the better having the automatic/spottronic becomes. I am laying the path for at least 500whp, and I don't think a 5 speed is going to be too friendly with that.</div>

How can you say that with confidence? You know the torque converter isnt the only thing that breaks in an auto tranny. How about the solenoids breaking due to all those hard engaged shifts that your new torque converter is doing? If you do your homework on this topic, our auto trannies are similar to that of the auto trannies found in a 2g eclipse minus the sport tronic for the 3g guys of course. Ask anyone making big power on a 2g, awd or fwd auto, it costs about $2500 to build a SOLID auto tranny. Thats not just a torque convertor. Thats upgraded solenoids, special solenoid valving, updated input shaft, etc.

You also know that you can build a 5 speed tranny for a lil cheaper then an auto, and have better gearing and driveability. You do know that you can send a 5 speed for a 3g off to TRE and they will build it with shot peened and cryo treated gears, double synchro's, LSD, etc.

I noticed you stated.......

"I totally sold everything to you all and invested in one of the torque convertors we have available"

........ refering to the ohh so great torque converter that YOU happen to carry for sale on YOUR website. Its like the the thread "which is better turbo kit or SDS kit" and having Ross post up, the SDS kit is much better, and you can buy it right here from me on my website.

If the torque converter is soo great then home come everyone with a fast 3g is running a 5 speed. and how come the people who tried getting the Level 10 tranny kit with a performance torque converter, all broke their trannies. Your not going to tell me that your torque converter is better then Level 10's, being as level 10 has been in the business of building performance trannies for over 15 years and has very very good built kits for other applications, but ours just doesnt seem to hold up. and you have had your torque converters for a few months and all of the sudden its the only way to go for big HP.

Also if you look at the really fast DSMs like John Shephard who is making over 1000whp and shifting at 10,000 RPMs Im pretty sure he is using a built 5 speed tranny. If auto's were soo great, why arent all the fast cars using them. I can see your point about auto trannies for like muscle cars but them trannies arent built like our FWD ones are, totally different ball game there. and in case you bring up the point of Brent Rau's DSM with an Auto tranny he doesnt count because he has a full tube frame car thats converted to RWD using a GM tranny, as well as that auto tranny on Big Len's old race 3g RWD eclipse

I may be coming off as an @$$HOLE, but my main purpose here is to seperate facts from hearsay and to make sure that the info your giving to the person who originally posted this thread isnt biased in a poor attempt to sell YOUR product.

[Tearstone]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stewi)</div><div class='quotemain'>I may be coming off as an @$$HOLE, but my main purpose here is to seperate facts from hearsay and to make sure that the info your giving to the person who originally posted this thread isnt biased in a poor attempt to sell YOUR product.</div>

Woah woah woah... breathe! What I posted was in relation to a discussion: https://www.thegalantcenter.org/viewt...light=tearstone

Currently we have a V6 Sporttronic that was pushing 320whp with the torque convertor putting down 108mph trap times the last time he went out before he pulled the motor.

Right now, there is a motor in his car that we are hoping that will produce at least 600whp since everything in the motor was upgraded except for crank so we are about to find out what is going to break next. But we've been throwing 300whp down on these trannies for many miles with no damage including the differentials (which are a problem on the 5spds with a stiff clutch).

Regarding the use of the toque convertor but it's an excellent solution for the transsmission that is no doubt the most popular on all these forums. The torque convertors I carry are the Rezlo torque convertors that he has published throughout this forum.

I'm certainly not going to argue which is better, the automatic or 5speed because it's really up to personal preference. I bought my car as a Spottronic and yes the car was slower than poo. I aspred to make it a 5 speed for a very long time, then when it came down to it... I decided not to. But with a few upgrades you can still have a very enjoyable and powerful Galant or Eclipse automatic/sporty.

[Tearstone]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stewi)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also if you look at the really fast DSMs like John Shephard who is making over 1000whp and shifting at 10,000 RPMs Im pretty sure he is using a built 5 speed tranny. If auto's were soo great, why arent all the fast cars using them. I can see your point about auto trannies for like muscle cars but them trannies arent built like our FWD ones are, totally different ball game there. and in case you bring up the point of Brent Rau's DSM with an Auto tranny he doesnt count because he has a full tube frame car thats converted to RWD using a GM tranny, as well as that auto tranny on Big Len's old race 3g RWD Â*eclipse</div>

On this note, those trannies do not last very long. Plus I do not even think they are mitsubishi trannies, they are completely built to shift at high speeds into the next gear without pushing in a clutch.

[DOHCstunr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stewi)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also if you look at the really fast DSMs like John Shephard who is making over 1000whp and shifting at 10,000 RPMs Im pretty sure he is using a built 5 speed tranny. If auto's were soo great, why arent all the fast cars using them. I can see your point about auto trannies for like muscle cars but them trannies arent built like our FWD ones are, totally different ball game there. and in case you bring up the point of Brent Rau's DSM with an Auto tranny he doesnt count because he has a full tube frame car thats converted to RWD using a GM tranny, as well as that auto tranny on Big Len's old race 3g RWD Â*eclipse</div>

On this note, those trannies do not last very long. Plus I do not even think they are mitsubishi trannies, they are completely built to shift at high speeds into the next gear without pushing in a clutch.</div>
they are still mitsu trannies, just have the dogs cut back, and use straight cut gearing. you can shift with or without the clutchor use ignition interrupt; keeps them very streetable.
regardless. for a street, touring, rally, or road race car manual trannies win hands down.
fully built automatic trannies suck on the street period.
who on this site is building an all drag galant? no one. cause they want to be able to drive their car to work or to take a chick out on a friday night.

no tranny shifting at 10,000+ rpms is going to last long.
but between an auto at 10k and a manual at 10k... the manual wil last longer every time.
even some of the nastiest torque converters out there can't handle those rpms. not to mention the hydrolic pressures and incredible heat in that operating range.

[Tearstone]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'>they are still mitsu trannies, just have the dogs cut back, and use straight cut gearing. Â*you can shift with or without the clutchor use ignition interrupt; Â*keeps them very streetable. Â*
regardless. Â*for a street, touring, rally, or road race car manual trannies win hands down. Â*
fully built automatic trannies suck on the street period. Â*
who on this site is building an all drag galant? Â*no one. Â*cause they want to be able to drive their car to work or to take a chick out on a friday night. Â*

no tranny shifting at 10,000+ rpms is going to last long. Â* Â*
but between an auto at 10k and a manual at 10k... Â*the manual wil last longer every time. Â*
even some of the nastiest torque converters out there can't handle those rpms. Â*not to mention the hydrolic pressures and incredible heat in that operating range.</div>

Interesting, why is it that you feel that automatic transmissions suck so bad, is it gearing or not being able to select your gear (such in the case as what we can do with the Eclipses)?

But who is talking about taking a 6G72 to 10K anyways? You guys keep talking about all these extreme usage transmissions, I'm not even talking about making a drag car. That is an entirely different thread all together

[DOHCstunr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'>they are still mitsu trannies, just have the dogs cut back, and use straight cut gearing. Â*you can shift with or without the clutchor use ignition interrupt; Â*keeps them very streetable. Â*
regardless. Â*for a street, touring, rally, or road race car manual trannies win hands down. Â*
fully built automatic trannies suck on the street period. Â*
who on this site is building an all drag galant? Â*no one. Â*cause they want to be able to drive their car to work or to take a chick out on a friday night. Â*

no tranny shifting at 10,000+ rpms is going to last long. Â* Â*
but between an auto at 10k and a manual at 10k... Â*the manual wil last longer every time. Â*
even some of the nastiest torque converters out there can't handle those rpms. Â*not to mention the hydrolic pressures and incredible heat in that operating range.</div>

Interesting, why is it that you feel that automatic transmissions suck so bad, is it gearing or not being able to select your gear (such in the case as what we can do with the Eclipses)?

But who is talking about taking a 6G72 to 10K anyways? You guys keep talking about all these extreme usage transmissions, I'm not even talking about making a drag car. That is an entirely different thread all together </div>
i think auto tranny's are fine for the strip. but the benifits of a manual on the street outweigh those of an auto any day.

yeah the gear selection is a plus on the eclipses. but you still can't slip the clutch off the line for traction, high stall converter may help for launching, but it is still much much easier to adjust your launch to track conditions, tire traction, changes in torque from tuning when using a manual tranny.

plus manuals shift faster, especially on the street or road track when you are downshifting 2 gears down.

personally i think auto tranny upgrades aren't a bad idea for auto v6 galants and eclipses. cause one or two mods isn't going to put an enormous dent in your wallet. but if you are talking about spending money to harness 300+ whp, why not swap it out. most everywone would be fine with nothing more than a tranny cooler when running your turbo kits. but there are a few people out there looking to lay down serious power. and for them, i would say go manual

besides, manual trannies get better mileage. 5th gear is great. keeps your revs down on the highway. that means 2 things.
A better mileage of course
B: you engine lasts longer with a manual tranny due to less revolutions per mile.

[Stewi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'>they are still mitsu trannies, just have the dogs cut back, and use straight cut gearing. Â*you can shift with or without the clutchor use ignition interrupt; Â*keeps them very streetable. Â*
regardless. Â*for a street, touring, rally, or road race car manual trannies win hands down. Â*
fully built automatic trannies suck on the street period. Â*
who on this site is building an all drag galant? Â*no one. Â*cause they want to be able to drive their car to work or to take a chick out on a friday night. Â*

no tranny shifting at 10,000+ rpms is going to last long. Â* Â*
but between an auto at 10k and a manual at 10k... Â*the manual wil last longer every time. Â*
even some of the nastiest torque converters out there can't handle those rpms. Â*not to mention the hydrolic pressures and incredible heat in that operating range.</div>

Interesting, why is it that you feel that automatic transmissions suck so bad, is it gearing or not being able to select your gear (such in the case as what we can do with the Eclipses)?

But who is talking about taking a 6G72 to 10K anyways? You guys keep talking about all these extreme usage transmissions, I'm not even talking about making a drag car. That is an entirely different thread all together </div>

we arent talking about making drag cars. Your post on the other page clearly stated, something to the effect. "auto trannies are the only way to go for high horsepower forced induction cars" and that statement is more BS then you can shovel. You say your not building a drag car but your talking about all this high stall converters and what not, how practical on the street is that? for daily driving? its terrible.

So you were trapping 108mph on a V6 with 320whp? I was trapping 107mph in the rain still in 3rd gear. Its possible, the guy vegasmatt had a V6 auto he was running 13 flat in the 1/4 and his trap was around there.

Believe me, I like what your doing. Its great to get some aftermarket support around here. Im just saying driveability wise, for the average Joe who has a few mods or even a low boost turbo kit, its not practical for your torque converters that are pretty much designed to be raced.

[Tearstone]

we arent talking about making drag cars. Your post on the other page clearly stated, something to the effect. "auto trannies are the only way to go for high horsepower forced induction cars" and that statement is more BS then you can shovel. You say your not building a drag car but your talking about all this high stall converters and what not, how practical on the street is that? for daily driving? its terrible.

So you were trapping 108mph on a V6 with 320whp? I was trapping 107mph in the rain still in 3rd gear. Its possible, the guy vegasmatt had a V6 auto he was running 13 flat in the 1/4 and his trap was around there.

Believe me, I like what your doing. Its great to get some aftermarket support around here. Im just saying driveability wise, for the average Joe who has a few mods or even a low boost turbo kit, its not practical for your torque converters that are pretty much designed to be raced.

Stewi, maybe we will just continue to have a difference of opinion on this. I don't know what to say. This was a thread just to query for opinions, and I gave mine based on my experiences.

I was referring to a different car that has 320whp that has really been testing the limits of AT transmission. But if he stays out of the pedal on my Sporty, the car drives like he bought it out of the show room floor.

The torque convertors that I sell from Rezlo you can set the stall to different levels to what you want. The torque convertor I have has a progressive stall and it still drives like the car is stock as well and it's very streetable.

What kind of torque convertors do you think it is that I am selling here?? It's not like we are selling powerglide transmissions

[cliffj94]

Okay, you guys are worrying me. I bought a torque convertor with a 2500 rpm stall, but haven't installed it yet. Do you thing that stall point is too high and will hurt driveability. My plans are basic upgrades for the engine, like exhaust, chip, intake, throttle body, and maybe headers. Oh, and of course the tranny cooler. I hope the 2500 stall convertor won't hurt me as far as streetability and reliability. Let me know what you think.

[Rezlo]

OK, lets face it and put some facts straight,

up to around 3500rpm flash stall it will not effect your drivability at all, at low to mid throttle points your car will act JUST like stock, its only once you go over around 1/2 throttle will you feel flash up faster.

IE THERE IS NO STREETABILITY ISSUES UNLESS YOU GO OVER 4000rpm at that point the car will actualy not move untill you get to about 1400rpm (which is still fairly streetable)

You people are getting HORRIBLY confuzed with flash, true and total stall, if you read any/all of my litrature ive put up about my converters including the fact its been said in this post we are talking about FLASH stall.

to the previous post, your 2500rpm stall converter will act like stock till you get to about 3/4 to WOT throttle then you will notice the pick up with it flashing higher.

Now, does somone want to argue that with me? ive been working and building converters for MANY years, I supply over 45 clubs with converters and beleive me this isnt the first time ive heard and seen people comenting about somthing they do not know about.

And on a side note:
B: you engine lasts longer with a manual tranny due to less revolutions per mile.
<-- total BS, auto has a lower gear ratio
10 000rpm, I wouldnt worry about your tranny, you wont have and engine left
ANNNND last but not least, for those that actualy have power the auto alowes you to lay that power down alot easier = traction = faster times, no mater what circumstance.

[pLUGSNEt]

Well what about those that dont want to drive a stick ever day but would like more power... not everyone like sticks... they are fun but my knees cant take it too long... maybe a night out on the town once in a while but i wouldnt be able to drive my car when i wanted if I had a stick..

[peanotation]

And on a side note:
B: you engine lasts longer with a manual tranny due to less revolutions per mile.
<-- total BS, auto has a lower gear ratio
10 000rpm, I wouldnt worry about your tranny, you wont have and engine left
ANNNND last but not least, for those that actualy have power the auto alowes you to lay that power down alot easier = traction = faster times, no mater what circumstance.

ok, sorry, lol, i can no longer take anything you say seriously. you're just trying to force a product now. i think ebay is more fit for your tactics.

[Stewi]

And on a side note:
B: you engine lasts longer with a manual tranny due to less revolutions per mile.
<-- total BS, auto has a lower gear ratio
10 000rpm, I wouldnt worry about your tranny, you wont have and engine left
ANNNND last but not least, for those that actualy have power the auto alowes you to lay that power down alot easier = traction = faster times, no mater what circumstance.

ok, sorry, lol, i can no longer take anything you say seriously. you're just trying to force a product now. i think ebay is more fit for your tactics.

im with peano on this one.

and how can you even say revving to 10,000RPMs that you wont have an engine. where do you get your motors built, McDonalds? You do know that you can safely rev 2.4's to like 8,000 if the motor is built right, and for some people on this board with 2.0 motors, if you build the motor and head, you can spin the motor to 10,000. your definetly just trying to push your product.

[DOHCstunr]

yeah 2.4l destroked to 2.1 can rev eagerly to 10,000 nearly 11,000 with built heads.

find me a torque converter that won't fail at those rpms. and then tell me why it would be good to have the auto in autocross?

not everyone drags here...

[Stewi]

STUNR its really funny that you brought that up about the destroked 2.4's down to a 2.1, that was my initial plan for my car, but since nobody has that much experience with 3g trannies, i decided not to. I know the tranny would take it, but I dont know how long the synrchos would last. I think I still might try it. I already have a built head too, If I can spin that thing to 10,000. I will definetly be able to go thru the 1/4 in just 3 gears.

[4-G-rim]

Its simple: I built automatic for a stall converter will give you consistent drag times by the fact you elimate shifting error. Now for "street" use...it all depends on driver preference. A person with a built A/T with a Stall converter will already have a advantage over a person who isn't proficient with a manual transmission and who cant take advantage of the cars gear band. Now for "track" use which I mean by track like a circuit track with lots of turns and not JUST straightaways...I would go with a manual transmission or a transmission that allows the driver to have total control with the gears, something you don't have with a A/T.

[theblackpearl]

5 SPPPEEEEDDDDDDDD

[Rezlo]

Look im not going to get in a pissing match with any of you, if you want to rev your 4 banger to the moon and make no power up there fine, and who builds my motors? I do actualy, and incase you dont know ive actualy got one of the most powerful 6g72 sohc's in the US, suppose when you make 480ft-tq at 2900rpm you dont need to worry about 10 000rpm.

Some helpful tips for those with the 4 bangers, go look at what the touring car guys do, they dump $50-60k into development to get their engines to make power upwards of 8000rpm, you should be able to get some good tips from them.

Either way im not pushing my product, besides the fact that i actualy dont supply I4 units I just came here to correct the utter BS that was spoken, besides most of the people that have any power are on the eclipse forums.

[Stewi]

Look im not going to get in a pissing match with any of you, if you want to rev your 4 banger to the moon and make no power up there fine, and who builds my motors? I do actualy, and incase you dont know ive actualy got one of the most powerful 6g72 sohc's in the US, suppose when you make 480ft-tq at 2900rpm you dont need to worry about 10 000rpm.

Some helpful tips for those with the 4 bangers, go look at what the touring car guys do, they dump $50-60k into development to get their engines to make power upwards of 8000rpm, you should be able to get some good tips from them.

Either way im not pushing my product, besides the fact that i actualy dont supply I4 units I just came here to correct the utter BS that was spoken, besides most of the people that have any power are on the eclipse forums.

you just said you werent going to start a pissing match and then thats what you respond with ?

now your gonna go "V6 crazy" on us and tell us how much better the V6 motors are and how 4 bangers are so inferior. And there are people on here who build motors, myself being one of them. you must also understand that not everyone on this board with a 4 banger is running a 2.4 liter, there are some of us with 2.0 liter motors that will run circles around your V6, because when your making 480ft lbs at 2900, then watching that torque drop off as you roll up to your 7,000 RPM redline, while us 2.0 liter guys are driving past you shifting at 9,000 and the power just keeps coming and coming. and you talk about having one of the most powerful 6g72's in the country, how fast does your car run? forget the motor, whats the car run? as far as the 3g boards go, the 2 fastests V6 eclipse's are both 5 speed. Have a nice day. :thumbsup: