Stall convertor vs. 5 speed swap

[Rezlo]

Thats actualy not what I responded with, maybe you should re-read it, but anyways,

I ran a 13.1 at 5psi (video of it on my site) and a 12.3 at 11psi while tunning the built motor in, my last run was at 18psi on the rollers but I never got it to the track before I left, the TQ kept over 400ft-tq from 2200-6300rpm enabiling it to have quite an easy ride without needing to wring its neck the whole time with the cam and compretion choises that were used, and with 100whp and probably 200ft-tq more than you do i think i would be pretty far ahead of you before you even get to shift at 9000rpm

One thing maybe you can clear up, out of the 40-50 DSM's and 420's ive tunned (i am AEM certified) not a single one of them has made decent power over 8500rpm, even one of our sister shops Evo8 didnt rev past 8500, and they have the fastest evo8 in the country (AMS), for 2 reason, A they dont flow enough, B there is no need to as there is very little power to be accessed)

on another note, the mitsubishi's heads flow ok, but really with the CFM they run how do you make that power up there without serious head work and a crazy cam combo, my street car is a JA S14 and my SR20 (has larger higher flowing ports than the 4G64 and 63) and has been CNC ported, blended and ceramic coated still doesnt benefit from spinning past 8200rpm, and thats with quite a list of higher RPM modifications,,,

im not doubting that you can do it, what I am doubting is that you can make any power up there without having dumped about $20-25 into it, so why dont you tell us what is actualy done to make it make power up there.

And about destroking a 4G64 to 2.1L, why dont you just put CP 1.5mm oversize pistons into a 4G63? it will give you the same outcome, and even with rods an a knife edged crank it still wont be safe or make power at 9000rpm

[theblackpearl]

wow this guy is gay...

[Rezlo]

I dont want this to turn into a "gay post" I just want to understand how its done, after 7 years of building imports (mostly mitsu's and Nissan's) ive never known any body that has managed to access power that that RPM in a streetable 4G6* vehicle, im not trying to point fingers, i just want to know how, every body learns, I dont know everything and i admit it, thats why im asking how?

Stewi, again im not doubting you can rev your car to 9000rpm I just want to know how you make or plan to make any usable power up there, dont get offended by what I say, im trying to understand and maybe learn somthing along the way, which is simply why im asking how you actualy do it,

theblackpearl, after your last 2 posts in this thread maybe you should think about posting in here because you clearly have no clue or input.

Stunr, belive it or not the no:1 killer of any item in your High Rpm engine and transmission is vibration from being out of ballance. We have a few units being used in some VERY high rpm rotaries, cars that are required to run at a higher RPM for extended periods of time run a quite considerably smaller converter that runs 2 load ballancing torington bearings to prevent any vibration after it has been threw our ballancer, if the consumer is even more worried we actualy can ballance the flex plate and transmission to it aswell to make up for any weight problems that cause vibration when fully installed, and as for the second part, Auto's in auto cross are not the best, unless you have heaps of TQ threw the RPM range and realy long gearing and autostick/tiptronic/sporty ectr type of electrical override for what gear you want to be in, even with all that auto's still arnt prefered for autocross.

[DOHCstunr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rezlo)</div><div class='quotemain'>
And about destroking a 4G64 to 2.1L, why dont you just put CP 1.5mm oversize pistons into a 4G63? it will give you the same outcome, and even with rods an a knife edged crank it still wont be safe or make power at 9000rpm</div>
its all about the rod angle. the 2.1 longrod motor has the righest possible rod angle. couple that with a dogbox and you won't have any worries about high revving reliability. of course problems can arise w/ any highly modded engine.

usable power. i call it antilag/nitrous, and a big balls turbo. some triple springs, titanium retainers. some nice cams(hks 272's work well), oversize valves and a solid port job.
seens the 2.1's make over 700 hp

[Tearstone]

I'm really curious, how many 8G Galants are running high RPM 4G64 motors on this site?

[DOHCstunr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm really curious, how many 8G Galants are running high RPM 4G64 motors on this site?</div>
probably not many cause a standard stroke 4g64 isn't a high reving motor. even built ones aren't TOO fond of revs

[Jet Black]

RPM RPM
RPMs Ruin People's Motors.

Also to throw more fire into this convo, can anyone confirm that the last two digits of the tranny code represent "real torque"? For example, the F4A51 is a front wheel drive, 4 gear, automatic, that can handle up to 510 ft-lbs?



And finally, could we please keep this shit civil? This is becoming worst than the political "discussions" in OT.

[Rezlo]

Not sure on the last 2 numbers, i know the F4a42 is the eclipse I4 and it DEFIANLTY cant handle 420ft-tq, said from experience, the V6 is 50 somthing, it must be to do with the bell housing shape or series of the trans,

[Jet Black]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rezlo)</div><div class='quotemain'>Not sure on the last 2 numbers, i know the F4a42 is the eclipse I4 and it DEFIANLTY cant handle 420ft-tq, said from experience, the V6 is 50 somthing, it must be to do with the bell housing shape or series of the trans,</div>

Ya thats what I figured, though a few sites are saying the same thing (about the relative torque).

Just to pick your brain a bit, if we had sufficient cooling, could the internals handle anywhere close to that much (without major upgrades)?

This thread is pretty intresting in relation to how much power the 3000GT autos can take:
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=...ighlight=tranny

[Rezlo]

With a good amount of cooling they are pretty strong, the one big problem is the diff, it tends to bomb out the fastest, one good choise if you are going to push it is a lsd not just for traction but for strength. past that there isnt a whole bunch available yet for you guys, One thing i did to make my mopar based 604 which is a little weaker than the f4a5* V6 mitsu but very similar is I had all the clutch buckets cryo treated after shearing all the teeth off 2 of the baskets at about 380ft-tq. Cryo treating is pretty cheap these days, what i would do is get a scrap yard trans, tear it down totaly, have every metal item cryo treated then give it all to a good trans shop and tell them to do a rebuild with a shift kit (if available), a good converter, put a nice large B&M cooler "with fan if you feel up to it" and go to town...

[Stewi]

So rezlo, let me get this straight. Now dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to "hate" on your accomplishments, but I have my doubts, and here is why.......

Your car, at 255whp (as it said on your site) ran 13.1? I cant see the time in the video but..... Stock EVO's make about 235whp stock, and they run mid to high 13's and they have quick 60ft's. Just entertain us and tell us what your 60 ft times were on that run? Is that car stripped out inside or does it have full interior? Your car weighs about 3150lbs stock, so after doing the math, things arent adding up. Idealistically, doing the math, you should be running around 13.7....... are you leaving anything out? you got spray? slicks? car gutted out? a 80lb 12 year old driving? It just doesnt add up.

[Tearstone]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm really curious, how many 8G Galants are running high RPM 4G64 motors on this site?</div>
probably not many cause a standard stroke 4g64 isn't a high reving motor. even built ones aren't TOO fond of revs</div>

Throughout this whole thread it seems like a lot of people are making motorcycle engines out of their 4 cylinders and making justifications as to why a torque convertor along with an automatic transmission would not work at the same time. While I admire those that can turn a 4cyl engine at a 10K RPMs but I do not think it's a common practice as some make it out to be.

[Rezlo]

Yep its been lightend a bit, i tip the scales at 2910lbs with out driver, what you have to remember to is that my car makes quite a boat more TQ than HP right from down low which helps quite a bit, honestly I cant remember what my 60ft time was on that run, I took it noticibly slow in 1st to try keep traction and not destroy my 2 day old tires at that stage, i only dropped the pedal 1/2 way threw 2nd as you can quite easily see the car take off 1/2 way down the track,

[DOHCstunr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm really curious, how many 8G Galants are running high RPM 4G64 motors on this site?</div>
probably not many cause a standard stroke 4g64 isn't a high reving motor. even built ones aren't TOO fond of revs</div>

Throughout this whole thread it seems like a lot of people are making motorcycle engines out of their 4 cylinders and making justifications as to why a torque convertor along with an automatic transmission would not work at the same time. While I admire those that can turn a 4cyl engine at a 10K RPMs but I do not think it's a common practice as some make it out to be.</div>
i only make these rebuttles because throughout this thread people(mostly vendors) have been making categorical statements. my rebubtles prove that your claims are not universally true. which defeats your argument. simple as that.

[Tearstone]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCSTUNR)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tearstone)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm really curious, how many 8G Galants are running high RPM 4G64 motors on this site?</div>
probably not many cause a standard stroke 4g64 isn't a high reving motor. even built ones aren't TOO fond of revs</div>

Throughout this whole thread it seems like a lot of people are making motorcycle engines out of their 4 cylinders and making justifications as to why a torque convertor along with an automatic transmission would not work at the same time. While I admire those that can turn a 4cyl engine at a 10K RPMs but I do not think it's a common practice as some make it out to be.</div>
i only make these rebuttles because throughout this thread people(mostly vendors) have been making categorical statements. my rebubtles prove that your claims are not universally true. which defeats your argument. simple as that.</div>

Why so much hate? Did I do anything to piss you off? I honestly did not know that rev'ing motors was a common practice here, that's why I'm asking questions. Just because I'm a vendor, does not make me a bad guy, seriously. I've been on these forums (meaning car forums in general) as a n00blet car guy substantially longer than I have been a car guy. I know what it's like to be jaded from seeing vendors come in with false promises, bullshit talk and wiping their ass with peoples money while the consumer ends up with a load of crap under their hood which were purchased in good faith. I've hated it so much that this is why I decided to become a vendor for the spirit of "put up or shut up".

So I ask, please give me a chance to breath a little bit here and if anything help me with things that I am unaware of not beat me with them.

Thank you

[Cali]

I'm really curious, how many 8G Galants are running high RPM 4G64 motors on this site?

probably not many cause a standard stroke 4g64 isn't a high reving motor. even built ones aren't TOO fond of revs

Throughout this whole thread it seems like a lot of people are making motorcycle engines out of their 4 cylinders and making justifications as to why a torque convertor along with an automatic transmission would not work at the same time. While I admire those that can turn a 4cyl engine at a 10K RPMs but I do not think it's a common practice as some make it out to be.

i only make these rebuttles because throughout this thread people(mostly vendors) have been making categorical statements. my rebubtles prove that your claims are not universally true. which defeats your argument. simple as that.

Why so much hate? Did I do anything to piss you off? I honestly did not know that rev'ing motors was a common practice here, that's why I'm asking questions. Just because I'm a vendor, does not make me a bad guy, seriously. I've been on these forums (meaning car forums in general) as a n00blet car guy substantially longer than I have been a car guy. I know what it's like to be jaded from seeing vendors come in with false promises, bullshit talk and wiping their ass with peoples money while the consumer ends up with a load of crap under their hood which were purchased in good faith. I've hated it so much that this is why I decided to become a vendor for the spirit of "put up or shut up".

So I ask, please give me a chance to breath a little bit here and if anything help me with things that I am unaware of not beat me with them.

Thank you

dont take it personal, it's just that people dont like to see claims made by vendors that one thing is better than another (ie rippmods) but in reality this thread came out really informative so let's just all get along. :thumbsup:

btw, i actually used to talk on AIM with both you AND Rezlo when i was going to turbo my v6 and you were barely putting in your IC but you probably dont remember me.

[qnz]

dont take it personal, it's just that people dont like to see claims made by vendors that one thing is better than another (ie rippmods) but in reality this thread came out really informative so let's just all get along. :thumbsup:

exactly. everyone is suspicious of vendors only promoting their own products. whats even worse are forum admins that push their own products. over on eclipseforums.org, everyone is wild about the cmf headers (20 hp gain yea right!) while on club3g the header has mixed reviews. the admin on eclipseforums also talks ill about tearstone while on club3g its the opposite.

now i dont care for either HSTC or 5speed swap but by looking at Rezlo's site, i find him to an honest guy. he gives superchargers some credit and explains the pros and cons of SC + turbo when other vendors would just only list the pros.

[Tearstone]

dont take it personal, it's just that people dont like to see claims made by vendors that one thing is better than another (ie rippmods) but in reality this thread came out really informative so let's just all get along. :thumbsup:

exactly. everyone is suspicious of vendors only promoting their own products. whats even worse are forum admins that push their own products. over on eclipseforums.org, everyone is wild about the cmf headers (20 hp gain yea right!) while on club3g the header has mixed reviews. the admin on eclipseforums also talks ill about tearstone while on club3g its the opposite.

now i dont care for either HSTC or 5speed swap but by looking at Rezlo's site, i find him to an honest guy. he gives superchargers some credit and explains the pros and cons of SC + turbo when other vendors would just only list the pros.

I was actually banned from eclipseforums.org for helping other members. Just do your research and you will find the truth of what is going on. I don't want to say anything negative about other vendors because ultimately they have a family to feed as well, not only that it is unprofessional. I just want to provide more aftermarket support for the 8G Galant/2G Strat/3G Eclipse because I have a passion for this platform.

I've e-known Ian (Rezlo) probably for about 3 years, and I surely would not resell his products if I did not believe in him or much less trust him. Same with Dave at RPW, I've known him awhile and I would not tolerate those vendors if they were out to hurt members here in any of these communities.

I also advocate the proper usage of both Superchargers and Turbo systems. We actually sell a conversion kit to get the superchargers to work more in harmony with the platform. When we receive trade ins we resell the superchargers as used with our new conversion kits. Really, I just want to see people happy with what is under their hood because no two people's desires or goals are alike.

I'm happy you guys told me how you felt, but I assure you that I am here to happily serve all the communities that fall under the 8G Galant/2G Strat/3G Eclipse platform.

[Rezlo]

Thats because Ive owned all 3, turbo, roots super, and centrifical in my differet cars over the last few years, ive also had alot of cars in for testing and prototyping which is why i gave my 2c, but yea wanna get shot down in flames of glory post it on 3G or eclipse.org with a prefference of FI, lol hell i had one guy sending me rude emails for 2 months because I said that a corectly matched turbo on a 6G72 would make more hp per psi than the vortec due to it having no drag on the engine..

We wont even get started on the eclipseforums.org people and in particular the admin's and moderaters, I dont offer advise or products to anyone that aproaches me from that club. Might sound funny but most of you probably dont know or forgot that I used to sell quite a range of stuff for 420's 4g6*'s and 6g7*'s before I desided to wake up and go Nismo :twisted:

I still have quite a heap of good info on the 6g72 on my website and how and where it likes to make power, it is all going to get shifted around soon when I re-do the site to gear it more towards business.

[qnz]

well back to the original question the guy posted....

everyone got carried away debating HSTC or 5speed for track cars or cars wtih 300+ hp. but what he (and myself) wanted to know was which to get for his modest daily driver. something around 150-170 whp?