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Reply With Quotewiseco pistons with the plethora of rods out there. i'm not the expert, but i'm pretty sure you just can't drop them in. cylinder walls dont stay true over time and you'll need a machine shop to rehone the block so the new pistons will fit.
i need yall help im about to do the the 5 speed swap within 2 r 3 weeks now and i want to put in the forged intenals. has anyone done forge internals on the 4g64? if so were there any problem and what kind of pistons and rods did u use?
wiseco pistons with the plethora of rods out there. i'm not the expert, but i'm pretty sure you just can't drop them in. cylinder walls dont stay true over time and you'll need a machine shop to rehone the block so the new pistons will fit.
Core shifting is awsum!!!11!Originally Posted by peanotation
you would want to have a machine shop do it. you cant just decide that your going to build your own engine, unless you have all the engine building tools you need, and with the question you asked im guessing you dont. Once a piston wears into a cylinder and the rings seat correctly, its going to make sort of a "lip" in the cylinder wall, not too noticeable to the naked eye, but if you run your ringer across you can feel it. Cylinders can also slightly distort, my recommendation is to have a machinst bore the block .020 over, this way right from the start you know you have a straight cylinder. as far as pistons and rods, I use wiseco's and I have heard alot of good things about them. They will hold up good on turbocharged and supercharged applications. If you plan on running nitrous, like 100 shot or more, get JE pistons, they dont have any silicone in them and will hold up better the the immense heat created by nitrous. Wiseco's have silicone in their alloy, they are quieter, lighter, and they seat better on cold starts. Cast Iron expands fairly quick when heated, so does silicone, this means, in theory, you can just jump in your car, start it and drive without warming it up, or with warming it up just for a few mins. This I highly do not recommend, you should always give about 5-10 mins for warm up, especially in a high performance application. JE, Arias, Ross, CP, those pistons have very low, or no silicone. This means they take more heat to expand, which means if you start your car, dont let it warm up and go driving, you will do damage, the pistons will slap around inside their cylinders, until they are hot enough to properly seat.
Now, lets talk about rods. You can get Eagle, Oliver, Scat, Crower, Pauter, etc. The 4G64 motors use 7 bolt 4G63T connecting rods. What that means to you is any Turbo eclipse 1995-1999 or any EVO 4-9 connecting rod will work on your motor. I personally use eagle rods and wiseco pistons. the reason for this is because they are the lightest in weighs and that means alot for a high revving motor. Less reciprating mass means more power. Now on the other hand, crower rods and JE pistons are stronger and cost a bit more. I hear people run up to 600hp on eagle rods and wiseco pistons with no problems.
Your going to want to have your crank polished and checked for damage, if its damaged, get a new one, if its good, have it polished. Buy a new set of bearings and have it assembled.
Wiseco pistons and Eagle rods will run you about $850
Je Pistons and Crower rods about $1200
Bearings about $70
Crank polishing, block machining and shortblock assembly $500-$1000 depending on where you live and who you want to use.
Understand tho, if you have some knucklehead tuning your car, or your trying to tune your $5000 turbo engine with like just an AFC, you may detonate and still break the forged pistons. Understand that motors dont break by themselves, poor tunning and/or not having the correct engine management can break motors fast. Lets give an example, your tuning your motor with your SAFC, all is well. you go to the track or you go around town beating on your car, next thing you know, something goes wrong, boost hose comes off your FPR and you loose pressure under boost, you knock, you send a rod thru the side of your block or crack a piston, maybe you heard the knock then stopped, maybe you didnt, maybe you heard it, but it was too late and it broke. if you had a knock sensor, or some type of datalogging device, you might have saved the motor.
If your looking for engine internals check out Slowboyracing.com or Raceeng.com
If you use slowboy, they do EXCELLENT work. They build motors, they do the machine work, everything, in house.
99' Galant ES
4G64/63T
AEM EMS
nice post
explain clearly and quickly did run on and on with one point and were all around nice guy
i give it 9.5 out of 10
france on the other hand gave you an 8.0
but your still in first place
would u trust the e-manage (blue) for tuning? if not which one have u seen that worked well? also im planing on doing the evo head would that affect my piston and rods? And im not sure if anone has done the 5 spped swap and gotten over 300 whp b/c i hear that they fall apart after that. and just wondering what trans r u using for the evo motor? and thanxs for the in depth pistons and rods if it works with the evo motor i think ill go with the wiseco pistons and eagle rods.
you would want to have a machine shop do it. you cant just decide that your going to build your own engine, unless you have all the engine building tools you need, and with the question you asked im guessing you dont. Once a piston wears into a cylinder and the rings seat correctly, its going to make sort of a "lip" in the cylinder wall, not too noticeable to the naked eye, but if you run your ringer across you can feel it. Cylinders can also slightly distort, my recommendation is to have a machinst bore the block .020 over, this way right from the start you know you have a straight cylinder. as far as pistons and rods, I use wiseco's and I have heard alot of good things about them. They will hold up good on turbocharged and supercharged applications. If you plan on running nitrous, like 100 shot or more, get JE pistons, they dont have any silicone in them and will hold up better the the immense heat created by nitrous. Wiseco's have silicone in their alloy, they are quieter, lighter, and they seat better on cold starts. Cast Iron expands fairly quick when heated, so does silicone, this means, in theory, you can just jump in your car, start it and drive without warming it up, or with warming it up just for a few mins. This I highly do not recommend, you should always give about 5-10 mins for warm up, especially in a high performance application. JE, Arias, Ross, CP, those pistons have very low, or no silicone. This means they take more heat to expand, which means if you start your car, dont let it warm up and go driving, you will do damage, the pistons will slap around inside their cylinders, until they are hot enough to properly seat.
Now, lets talk about rods. You can get Eagle, Oliver, Scat, Crower, Pauter, etc. The 4G64 motors use 7 bolt 4G63T connecting rods. What that means to you is any Turbo eclipse 1995-1999 or any EVO 4-9 connecting rod will work on your motor. I personally use eagle rods and wiseco pistons. the reason for this is because they are the lightest in weighs and that means alot for a high revving motor. Less reciprating mass means more power. Now on the other hand, crower rods and JE pistons are stronger and cost a bit more. I hear people run up to 600hp on eagle rods and wiseco pistons with no problems.
Your going to want to have your crank polished and checked for damage, if its damaged, get a new one, if its good, have it polished. Buy a new set of bearings and have it assembled.
Wiseco pistons and Eagle rods will run you about $850
Je Pistons and Crower rods about $1200
Bearings about $70
Crank polishing, block machining and shortblock assembly $500-$1000 depending on where you live and who you want to use.
Understand tho, if you have some knucklehead tuning your car, or your trying to tune your $5000 turbo engine with like just an AFC, you may detonate and still break the forged pistons. Understand that motors dont break by themselves, poor tunning and/or not having the correct engine management can break motors fast. Lets give an example, your tuning your motor with your SAFC, all is well. you go to the track or you go around town beating on your car, next thing you know, something goes wrong, boost hose comes off your FPR and you loose pressure under boost, you knock, you send a rod thru the side of your block or crack a piston, maybe you heard the knock then stopped, maybe you didnt, maybe you heard it, but it was too late and it broke. if you had a knock sensor, or some type of datalogging device, you might have saved the motor.
If your looking for engine internals check out Slowboyracing.com or Raceeng.com
If you use slowboy, they do EXCELLENT work. They build motors, they do the machine work, everything, in house.
well you can do the EVO headswap. my question is, how much HP are you looking to make? I think you can get the stock 4G64 head, maybe some light port work and I think it will support about 400whp or a little more. In terms of your questions about needing different pistons and rods for the headswap, the rods are definetly the same. You might need to have the valve reliefs on the piston machined to clear the EVO valves. If I were you, check with magnus motorsports (www.magnusmotorsports.com). they are the DSM guru's of Canada, and they have done several EVO headswaps on 3G's in canada and they should know this. You can also check with wiseco by calling them. Wiseco makes pistons for the EVO and the 4G64, just ask them what their valve relief depth is for the pistons and the diameter of the relief, in a worst case, you can order them custom for like $20 more money.
The 5 speed tranny im using is from a 3g eclipse. the EVO 4G63T block and the galant 4G64 block are almost identical. they are in fact the same casting, but the galant block is slightly taller, obviously the bore is different, galant block doesnt have oil squirters, but for the most part everything else is the same, water pump, oil pump, etc, all that stuff is interchangeable. If your making alot of horsepower I highly suggest you get a LSD. Kaaz makes them, Quaife makes them, I think OBX makes them for 3g's too but not 100% sure on them. Quaife is the most expensive, but it is the best, its a helical gear type and it carries a lifetime warranty, even for racing. Kaaz has no warranty after its installed. OBX has no warranty after its installed. Id say for up to about 400whp a kaaz will be fine. Kaaz LSD's are about $800. Quaife is $1100, if OBX makes one, its about $500. The OBX one is a quaife knock off, but alot of the honda guys use them with much success.
in regards to your tuning issues, I think an emanage ultimate will work good for the most part. It has its limitations but it should be OK. Im not sure if the ultimate has knock control, I think it does. If it doesnt there are companies who sell knock monitoring equipment. For a few hundred dollars more you can get a used standalone. there is a company called simple digital systems that makes a nice, easy to install standalone, Haltech, Autronic, Apexi POWER FC, electromotive. I would check your area, find tuners in your area and see what they use, as that might dictate what you get, you always want to make sure there are tuners in your area experienced with your system before you actually buy it.
99' Galant ES
4G64/63T
AEM EMS
so as far as the 3rd gen tranny goes what did u do to urs besides the limited slip? do u think it would be a good idea to run the evo 7-8 turbo on the 4g64? and do u own ur own shop b/c this is some of the best info ive recived on my car. if u live in the south what shop would u recemend i send it to?
no, I dont own my own shop. I have just taken apart my motor, broken it, taken it apart and fixed it, enough times to learn. Im from NY so I have no idea where to go in the south. There is a place on florida called Central Florida turbo, they do good work.
All I did to my tranny was the LSD and I had normal things replaced, new bearings, synchros, etc. The EVO turbos are difficult to use because the EVO manifold sits the turbo right where the starter is on a 4G64, im running a T3/4 hybrid turbo.
99' Galant ES
4G64/63T
AEM EMS
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