Several issues

[98ACR]

Ok, first off I'm leaking a lot of some sort of oil! The only fluid that's continuously low is oil, of which I have to add ~1qt every 700 miles or so. But when I rack the car most of the oil droplets on the bottom of the car are red. Today I removed the access plate to the TC and it had quite a bit of oil in there...however not enough to accound for 1 qt every 700 miles. For that kind of oil loss, I'd expect there to literally be oil pouring out of that access plate. And the trans seems to be not loosing much oil...if any. It's always full on the dipstick.

Second issue: My intake is getting VERY heavy carbon build-up. Yesterday I scraped literally 1/8" of carbon off of my throttle plate. Today I checked it again, and it's got carbon build-up on it again already. What could be causing such heavy build-up?

Lastly, My car is idling funny. With the A/C on, the car in "D" and my foot on the brake, the car feels like it's literally going to shake itself appart. Under these conditions the idle dropps to like 500 rpm. Even with the A/C off, it shakes quite a bit. Since cleaning out the TB, it seems to idle better, but it's still not like it was about 2 years ago when I drove this car as my DD (before my Neon days)

Sadly...I think this car has almost reached the end of it's useful life. The problems seem to be cropping up too fast for me to repair them...and they're getting more expensive.

[manybrews]

Ok, first off I'm leaking a lot of some sort of oil! The only fluid that's continuously low is oil, of which I have to add ~1qt every 700 miles or so. But when I rack the car most of the oil droplets on the bottom of the car are red. Today I removed the access plate to the TC and it had quite a bit of oil in there...however not enough to accound for 1 qt every 700 miles. For that kind of oil loss, I'd expect there to literally be oil pouring out of that access plate. And the trans seems to be not loosing much oil...if any. It's always full on the dipstick.

you havent said how many miles on your car, but its obvious that if its not leaking, its being burned. either the most common place which is through the valve seals/guides, or around a ring/piston or two.
and are you checking the trans correctly? it MUST be checked in nuetral, lest you get a reading thats 2 to 3 quarts incorrect.

Second issue: My intake is getting VERY heavy carbon build-up. Yesterday I scraped literally 1/8" of carbon off of my throttle plate. Today I checked it again, and it's got carbon build-up on it again already. What could be causing such heavy build-up?

the previously mentioned burning of oil.

Lastly, My car is idling funny. With the A/C on, the car in "D" and my foot on the brake, the car feels like it's literally going to shake itself appart. Under these conditions the idle dropps to like 500 rpm. Even with the A/C off, it shakes quite a bit. Since cleaning out the TB, it seems to idle better, but it's still not like it was about 2 years ago when I drove this car as my DD (before my Neon days)

clean your throttle body completely.

[98ACR]

I've got 160K on the block, 6k on the head. The IM and TB were completely dissassembled and cleaned when the head was replaced. I know how to check the trans correctly, and it's right between the two hash marks when the trans is warm, in neutral and the engine running.

The oil comsumption is getting worse! On a run to see my Fiance and back (just over 250 miles round trip) I had to add an entire quart of oil when I checked it this morning. And if I were burning oil at that rate, I'd have a trail of oily smoke following me...but my car dosen't smoke anymore....I'm at a loss folks!

[MBowen574]

wow... you just described my car. on a recent trip (where i took the picture... to corolla, nc, then to charleston, wv, then back to morgantown, wv) and around 1500 miles I went through 5 full quarts of oil. i hit 100,000 miles yesterday.

at night now i can see the oil burning if the engine's straining at all. even at low speed now. which means its getting worse. on one leg of the journey to corolla (a hilly section through maryland), i went through 1 quart in just under 200 miles.

i also have the idling problem. it happens whenever the car is put in reverse, and is particularly bad when the car's cold (i.e. it shakes the whole exhaust and caused my cell phone to vibrate out of the center console right under the radio and into the floor one morning). it shakes badly in any gear other than neutral or park with the A/C on. im hoping a new engine mount will fix that though im not sure. i also still have the worst ever exhaust leak. also possibly attributable to the engine mounts, but i wont know unless i throw another $200 at the damn thing. i paid book for the car and have since put another $2000+ into it, and still have quite a few problems. i have the horrible carbon build up, too. ive cleaned my throttle three times since i started this school year in august and it needs it badly yet again right now. and a strut just went bad and is clunking away. i also think a rear deck speaker is going.

100,128 miles on the clock when i got out this evening.

manybrews... i know you like to support your company, and im a big mitsubishi supporter when it comes to most situations. i also know that these cars can last well if they are cared for impeccably throughout their entire lives. but the build quality (likely), engineering (less likely), or both (probably unlikely w/ an engineering company like mitsu) just isnt there with these things. know-nothing grandmas with no car sense at all can drive a camry to 300,000 miles a quart low on oil and on the original timing belt and trans fluid. these cars required lots of upkeep. and my clearcoat is coming off around the sunroof and on the ridges outside the roof drip rails. common w/ black Gs....

[bronxbombr]

How the fuck do you let your car get to this stage? Man go out and get a tune up, clean your TB again, check your A/T fluid lines(from the radiator to the tranny), check your tranny for leaks(especially round the axles), check your ISC, look around your front & rear main seals for leaks(look around timing belt area), change the goddamn air filter, engine mounts, tranny mount, oil, oil filter.

Try to do most of the shit yourself to maintain low costs.

[MBowen574]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bronxbombr)</div><div class='quotemain'>How the fuck do you let your car get to this stage? Man go out and get a tune up, clean your TB again, check your A/T fluid lines(from the radiator to the tranny), check your tranny for leaks(especially round the axles), check your ISC, look around your front & rear main seals for leaks(look around timing belt area), change the goddamn air filter, engine mounts, tranny mount, oil, oil filter. Â*

Try to do most of the shit yourself to maintain low costs.</div>

not sure to whom that was directed, but if it was to me, i counter with the fact that i've already spent over $2000 in repairs alone on the Galant, and thats doing every repair myself (except the wheel bearing... which i couldve done but didnt have time to do). im over $5200 in on this car including the purchase price. im a college student and dont get weekly paychecks to simply dump into constant upkeep. the car is falling apart, period, faster than i can keep it up. it sounds like this guy is having the same trouble.

[98ACR]

Alright, more info on my car:

The trans was re-built right about the time when the head was replaced (actually, it's been right about 11k on the trans rebuild)

When the head was replaced, the intake manifold was cleaned along with the TB and the pistions themselves were even scraped off and cleaned thoroughly. It was put back together with new T-belt, balance belt, and tensioner. The head is 100% rebuilt by a reliable and reputable builder.

The day before I posted my original post, I cleaned the TB again as well as running some induction cleaner through the engine.

Before the T-belt shreaded, the engine didn't use a drop of oil, and the trans didn't leak either. I took the car back to the trans shop, and they said the trans leak was from the secondary coolant lines (the rubber ones that go directly into the top of the transmission) I've replaced both, and the whole bottom half of the transmission was damp with trans fluid within 3k miles.

As for the oil leak, I know my rear main seal is leaking (if all goes well, I'm gonna put in a new one this weekend) But I'm saying that's the only oil leak that I see...and it dosen't seem like enough to account for 1 qt every 750 miles or so (I did some measured tests this weekend, thus my revised oil consumption figures)

[MBowen574]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(98ACR)</div><div class='quotemain'>Alright, more info on my car:

The trans was re-built right about the time when the head was replaced (actually, it's been right about 11k on the trans rebuild) Â*

When the head was replaced, the intake manifold was cleaned along with the TB and the pistions themselves were even scraped off and cleaned thoroughly. It was put back together with new T-belt, balance belt, and tensioner. The head is 100% rebuilt by a reliable and reputable builder. Â*

The day before I posted my original post, I cleaned the TB again as well as running some induction cleaner through the engine. Â*

Before the T-belt shreaded, the engine didn't use a drop of oil, and the trans didn't leak either. I took the car back to the trans shop, and they said the trans leak was from the secondary coolant lines (the rubber ones that go directly into the top of the transmission) I've replaced both, and the whole bottom half of the transmission was damp with trans fluid within 3k miles. Â*

As for the oil leak, I know my rear main seal is leaking (if all goes well, I'm gonna put in a new one this weekend) But I'm saying that's the only oil leak that I see...and it dosen't seem like enough to account for 1 qt every 750 miles or so (I did some measured tests this weekend, thus my revised oil consumption figures)</div>

any hope of remedying your piston ring problems? or do you still think thats the problem there? i still have tons of smoke billowing out anytime the engine is straining at all (and i'm reluctant to throw a bunch of oil additives in there to thicken it, esp. when we're still having 20* nights here). planning on new rings early this summer but there'll be lots of oil used between now and then... :?

[Shadow19]

When i first got my Galant i noticed the oil leak from the tranny lines (straight to the tranny) all i did was take the one that was leaking off put some teflon tape arount the threads.. and it hasnt leaked yet..

[98ACR]

I'm pretty sure the engine is burning very little if any oil. It was, but quit after I ran some Marvel Mystery Oil through the engine. It dosen't smoke anymore, except when I very first start the car and even than only if I rev it up.

[MBowen574]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(98ACR)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure the engine is burning very little if any oil. It was, but quit after I ran some Marvel Mystery Oil through the engine. It dosen't smoke anymore, except when I very first start the car and even than only if I rev it up.</div>

wouldn't that be valve seals in your case then? or at least a combination of the 2 problems? ive always heard that valve seals cause smoke @ startup and piston rings cause smoke @ wide open throttle...

[manybrews]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MBowen574)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(98ACR)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure the engine is burning very little if any oil. It was, but quit after I ran some Marvel Mystery Oil through the engine. It dosen't smoke anymore, except when I very first start the car and even than only if I rev it up.</div>

wouldn't that be valve seals in your case then? or at least a combination of the 2 problems? ive always heard that valve seals cause smoke @ startup and piston rings cause smoke @ wide open throttle...</div>
yep.

blue smoke on startup is usually valve seals/guides. they will also smoke if left idling for 10-20 minutes.

excessive ring/piston/cylinder wear usually occurs during deceleration, but thats only for really bad wear.
it IS possible to burn oil up to a quart every 500 miles and not see a bit of blue smoke.

[MBowen574]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manybrews)</div><div class='quotemain'>
yep.

blue smoke on startup is usually valve seals/guides. Â*they will also smoke if left idling for 10-20 minutes.

excessive ring/piston/cylinder wear usually occurs during deceleration, but thats only for really bad wear.
it IS possible to burn oil up to a quart every 500 miles and not see a bit of blue smoke.</div>

i'm burning a quart every 250-350 miles and theres no blue smoke. just black smoke when i accelerate hard on the interstate or, say, im going up a hill at 25-50 mph and the car hasnt downshifted yet and is chugging at 1500 rpm or less. it trails lots of black smoke in both situations. only thing i can think of is piston rings... any clues?

i know 98ACR was having the same trouble and he cured it w/ the oil additives, but im kind of afraid to try that stuff. besides id rather fix the problem than put a band aid on it.

sorry for the thread hijacking... hopefully it can help both of us though.

[seth98esT]

Black smoke would mean that the car is running rich.

[MBowen574]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seth98esT)</div><div class='quotemain'>Black smoke would mean that the car is running rich.</div>

thats what i thought way back when this first cropped up... but the plugs were beautiful when i replaced them and the new ones are still completely clean.

[manybrews]

black smoke under WOT is going to be SOMEWHAT normal. Obviously, the car runs richer at WOT than normal cruise.

[98ACR]

My main reason for rejecting the idea of valve guides/seals is that the head was just rebuilt!

I AM leaning toward rings though. They've got 160K on them. They also took a lot of abuse when the T-belt shreaded (I was trying to pass a van on the highway and the engine was at WOT when the pistons and exhaust valves met rather violently) I'm starting to wonder if for some unknown reason if my smoke at start-up is just the car running super rich? I'm still getting phenomenal gas milage, but what if, for some unknown reason, it's running pig rich right when I first start it up. (this morning as a test I really reved up my engine and completely obscured my neighbor's house in a cloud of gray smoke. Once it was warm, I could not get it to smoke at all

On a side note, what I did was not an oil addative, it was an oil I poured directly into the cylinders through the spark plug tubes to lubricate and clean my piston rings. It sat overnight and was blown out the next morning. This method was given to me by an old Master Tech at work who has used it before on Junkyard engines that have been put into customer's cars and either smoked or ran really poorly.

Tomorrow I'm replacing my rear main seal, so hopefully I can start to get a more accurate idea of how much, if any, oil I'm actually burning and how much is just leaking out.

[i_xlr8]

One quick way to test for ring blow by is to take the Rocker cover oil cap off. If you have a lot of pressure blowing out the hole, thats bad rings (mine were so bad it would kick the dipstick out of the sleeve).

The other test is the dry/wet compression test where the difference would indicate rings, as the wet (adding oil and retesting) would help seal the rings to the cylinder walls.

It was recommended to me to try the "top end" cleaner to try to free up the rings. They can become gummed up and freeze/hang in the piston grooves, not rotating and seating properly. My experience was that mine were too far gone to make any difference. Mechanic said the Mystery Oil I used would have contributed to the "Sticky Rings" syndrome.

[DOHCstunr]

My main reason for rejecting the idea of valve guides/seals is that the head was just rebuilt!

where all or any of your valve guides and seals replaced?
or was it just the guides, valves and seals that were bent that were replaced?

[98ACR]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOHCstunr)</div><div class='quotemain'>
where all or any of your valve guides and seals replaced?
or was it just the guides, valves and seals that were bent that were replaced?</div>

The place that we use has many, many rebuilt heads in stock. You take off the head(s) and take them there drop them off and pick up a newly refurbished head. The head currently on my car is not the original one. When they refurbish a head, they totally strip it down, clean it, put new valves, springs, keepers, retainers, guides, and seals in it and machine it as needed to clean up the gasket mating surfaces. It cuts out the full day of down time that is usually associated with sending out a head to have it checked, cleaned and decked. Also this is good for the shop as it ensures the engine will run as good as it can since the entire top end is fresh. Than keeping with my mantra of making something better when possible and not just replacing a broken part with a stock bit, I dropped the fresh head off at another machine shop and had them do a "stage 2" P&P Which was a fairly agressive P&P on the exhaust side, a mild P&P on the intake side, roughing the intake side slightly to aid in fuel atomization and air fuel mixture and gasket matching all ports.