Forced Induction questions...

[6G72Galant]

*** Already searched the forums, turned up some good info. But not the info im looking for.

Ok guys. I will soon have $22K to spend/invest/save. Ive been pondering the idea of Forced induction for quite some time now. Ill be using the car as my daily driver. So i really have some significant concerns. My concerns are as follows...

1-What is a good estimation of the cost to tune a Turbo system?
2-What is a good estimation of the cost to tune a Supercharger system?
3-Will adding a Turbo under the hood, decrease the life of my other engine components due to to the heat generated from the turbo?
4-What are some reasonable gains i can expect from a Turbo?
5-What are some reasonable gains i can expect from a Supercharger?
6-Is a Turbo system pretty much maintenance free after installation and a proper tune?
7-If i decide i dont want the Turbo/Supercharger any more, will i be able to successfully have it uninstalled and run stock again?

If any of you guys who are already running Turbo/Supercharger systems can add advice or answer these questions, id really appreciate it. As i said above, ive searched these forums and couldnt turn up much usable info to answer these questions.

Heres a couple of kits i found on the web...


http://www.turbo-kits.com/galant_turbo_kits.html

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/pric...ormance/Turbos

http://www.streetlevelperformance.co...rbo%20Kit.html

***Ive checked out Ripp Mods already, but for $3500+ id like to see some direct comparisons to Turbo systems in the same price range. What im trying to say is, does the Ripp kit for $3500+ give me more hp than a turbo kit for $2500?

Again, any of you guys already with FI please tell me your experiences with your systems. Thank you.

[S-Line]

I would like these questions answered also since I'm ready to go FI. I'm just debating on which way to go, turbo, supercharger, engine swap.

[Jet Black]

1./2. Tuning depends on who tunes it. Either yourself, or a shop.
3. The ambient heat wont neccicarly do anything to surrounding components, but this really depends on multiple factors like distance, and cooling. Though in general I havn't heard this to be a problem. At the very least some exhaust wrap and a heat shield will basicly makes this a nonissue.
4. Very broad question. You can go anywhere from blowing a piston and loosing over half your power, to a good 100% increase over stock.
5. 3 kilos of cocaine.
6. No.
7. Yes.

No one makes a good V6 kit right now. Only option is to keep searching ebay/forums for older kits or diy with a welder (OR pay a shop out of the ass for it).

The most important piece of the these kits is the manifolds. They are the hardest parts to come by. If you see one, jump on it. ;)

[dronesurfboards]

My .02, go custom, you get the components you want, and you can piece it up through time. These ready made kits are fine but at one point in time youre gonna want to start replacing parts for better parts. spend the money and get what parts you really want...as for tuning...good luck...my friends and I have never gotten a kit to work its best...either its running too lean or too rich. and youre always gonna want to take the boost to the edge. Its great to go forced but youll always be spending money on it to keep it going.

[Stewi]

that turbo in the picture you posted is far too small for a V6 application just looking at it. I agree with what Jetblack said, keep your eyes open on Club3g and look for a used turbo kit.

[6G72Galant]

1./2. Tuning depends on who tunes it. Either yourself, or a shop.

I understand there will be a fluctuation in prices from shop to shop. But i was just wondering if there was an estimated cost. For example, an Oil change is usually about $20-$30. Does a tune usually land around $1000?

3. The ambient heat wont neccicarly do anything to surrounding components, but this really depends on multiple factors like distance, and cooling. Though in general I havn't heard this to be a problem. At the very least some exhaust wrap and a heat shield will basicly makes this a nonissue.

Ight cool. I was worried that the heat from the turbo would dry out the rubber belts much faster. Timing belt, serpentine belt, coolant hoses, and other rubber materials.

4. Very broad question. You can go anywhere from blowing a piston and loosing over half your power, to a good 100% increase over stock.

Ok. So with a good tune could i expect about 30 whp? Or is that number too far fetched? Im assuming the bigger the turbo, the more power that turbo can handle and generate. From what ive read, most people reccomend the T3 or T4 turbo. And the 16G turbo.

6-Is a Turbo system pretty much maintenance free after installation and a proper tune?

6. No.

What maintenance needs to be done? Do i have to continuously take it into the shop for work? Or do i just have to keep on my regular maintenance (Oil change, trany fluid, coolant, spark plugs, etc...)?

The most important piece of the these kits is the manifolds. They are the hardest parts to come by. If you see one, jump on it.

The Exhaust manifold?

...as for tuning...good luck...my friends and I have never gotten a kit to work its best...either its running too lean or too rich.

Did you have a shop tune it for you?

that turbo in the picture you posted is far too small for a V6 application just looking at it. I agree with what Jetblack said, keep your eyes open on Club3g and look for a used turbo kit.

Ill be checking them out too. Thanks.

[peanotation]

1/2. depends on about 327 different factors. really depends how much you trust your shop, some shops out there don't know a god damn thing about boost and others pretend they do....

3-i think you're talking about internal heat generated from a turbo? it will diminish your engine life, as the internals, which were designed for an N/A application, are now undergoing boost. for example, the highest you'll ever see EGTs hit on a n/a 4cyl is around 1200* on a hot day, a turbo will easily have you cruising at 1200* and spiking to 1500* during WOT runs. on the V6 i can only imagine this head becomes more intense with the addition of boost.

4- totally depends on how aggressive you plan to get; how much boost you want to run; how you tune it; timing is a big factor here

6- no way.

7-yes

you should really piece together your own kit. you'll get the parts you want, build it the way you want, actually learn about what you're doing, and become your own mechanic. when problems come up down the road (which they will) you will be able to deal with them, some of them right on the side of the road. how helpless are you going to feel if you have to call some guy at a shop and tailor your schedule to his. that turbo in the picture is way too small for a V6, and the AFC2 is a fucking joke, nothing more than a flashy toy.

[seth98esT]

The tune depends a few things: Who tunes it and what you have to tune with. If its just an SAFC, an hour long session with wideband sniffer would probably cost $200-400 depending on the shop. THe prices go up, the more advanced your management system is. Stewi paid $800/hr to have his car tuned, but it was tuned by a professional that had expertise using his system.

Maintenance isnt bad. JUst have to check your oil often as your turbo will feeds on oil. Other then that, just wait untill something breaks.

[6G72Galant]

The tune depends a few things: Who tunes it and what you have to tune with. If its just an SAFC, an hour long session with wideband sniffer would probably cost $200-400 depending on the shop. THe prices go up, the more advanced your management system is. Stewi paid $800/hr to have his car tuned, but it was tuned by a professional that had expertise using his system.

Thanks. I really had no idea how much tuning could even cost. But an estimation of $800hr doesnt seem bad at all. Especially for a trained professional with experience.

Maintenance isnt bad. JUst have to check your oil often as your turbo will feeds on oil. Other then that, just wait untill something breaks.

Cool. Ill be the first to admit, im no mechanic. So if i do go FI ima be hoping and praying the system i choose will give me little trouble.

3-i think you're talking about internal heat generated from a turbo? it will diminish your engine life, as the internals, which were designed for an N/A application, are now undergoing boost. for example, the highest you'll ever see EGTs hit on a n/a 4cyl is around 1200* on a hot day, a turbo will easily have you cruising at 1200* and spiking to 1500* during WOT runs. on the V6 i can only imagine this head becomes more intense with the addition of boost.

Internal heat, and the overall temp of the engine bay itself. I understand that itd be a wise choice to upgrade my stock internals and such. I was just concerned with the heat in the engine bay. For example, will the external heat generated from the turbo discolor a FG hood? Will it damage a CF hood?

you should really piece together your own kit. you'll get the parts you want, build it the way you want, actually learn about what you're doing, and become your own mechanic

From the way it looks, i might be going this route. I need to browse the forums some more to make my final decision.

Again thank you all for your patience, and helpfullness with my questions. Thanks.

[milo111000]

wow.. good luck with the project.. but my .02 on this would be, if you had 22k to burn. i would just invest on a turbo powered motor like a VR TT.. since you are runniing a v6. just upgrade to the TT.. that's just me.. sure enough the kits would roughly cost a little bit less than a VR TT.. but you already have a motor ready for boosting..

[IceDouTGaLanT]

my total turbo cost is clost to 6-7K, thats with the turbo kit, guages, install, other related things and tune...but for 22K i rather do what milo said IMO

[Johnathansgalant]

having recently turboing my car i would say custom.. Although i have not had much experience with 6cyl... my cost which is not total and is approx is just under 2k.. maybe 1800 using stock eclipse mani and injectors with the emanage and the adequate supports.. This is with no internal work.. I am not completely 100% done but im sure it will not amount to 6k but tuning here is 150 // hr with the emanage.. I was told expect 2 to 3 hrs if ur base tune is tore up..

Increase is great in my oppinion -- i have not had my car dynoed as of yet as i am waiting on a few items but i have taken a v6 eclipse manual by a few cars and i am 4 cyl.. About the heat i agree the life of the engine will decrease but a properly tuned and monitored engine will last a long while if maintained.. Good liquids and the such.. As for maintenance i dont think its any more than the na.. Watch the fluids and make sure everything is tight.. as for removing if ur fuel pump is the same ur never gonna wanna get back in there lol.. but its fairly easy to remove but if u tap the oil pan u will need to plug it or replace it.. Sorr y i dont know how helpful that is but its what i just went through.. The increase in power is nice... I dont think u will reach any higher than 3k with everything u need but as i said, i have a i4..

[6G72Galant]

milo111000 Posted: 05 Feb 2007 12:40 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow.. good luck with the project.. but my .02 on this would be, if you had 22k to burn. i would just invest on a turbo powered motor like a VR TT.. since you are runniing a v6. just upgrade to the TT.. that's just me.. sure enough the kits would roughly cost a little bit less than a VR TT.. but you already have a motor ready for boosting..

Is there an engine code for that engine? Im thats the engine found in the 3000GT, correct?

[Tearstone]

1/2. depends on about 327 different factors. really depends how much you trust your shop, some shops out there don't know a god damn thing about boost and others pretend they do....

Along with an extremely small percentage of shops that know jack about the 6G72 and 9 times out of 10 will definitely blow the pistons.

No need to reinvent the wheel, over on Club3G we've been turbo charging the V6 for years and are very familiar with the downfalls of the engine.

If I had $22k to burn on this car that's really on par with a very reliable turbocharged car. But really aimlessly spending money without a viable direction on exactly what you want to do is an inefficient way to budget upgrades.

Upgrade your lower end at a minimum with forged pistons. Rods are good for roughly 500 horse, but you can upgrade to crower billet rods which is the best but they do not have oil squirters built in so you have a potential heat issue.

Heads, definitely would go with cams, cam gears, valve springs and 1mm over valves for maximum power.

Ignition & Fuel management. Do it right the first time and go with a stand alone. It is possible to run a stand alone and use the stock ECU to control your transmission. 4cyl guys over on Club3G have done it with Scot Gray's assistance. Distributor ignition does not provide enough intensity for a spark so it will blow out at around 12 psi or so depending on your turbo sizing. So you either have to push a hotter spark with a MSD6 or replace your ignition system with coil packs.

Drivetrain - A torque convertor stall change is definitely in order if you want to launch at a higher RPM and get to the power band quicker. If you decide to do a 5spd swap (which keep in mind will create even more traction issues) then you will have to put money towards clutch/flywheel and LSD. With the AT transmission due to the soft engagement of the AT transmission it does not put the LSD in a bad position and I've yet to hear of anyone busting one on a Sporty.

Then you have the turbo kit itself, which in of itself I find that it seems a lot of companies are using different turbo sizes. The turbo kit we used to sell was a full T4 (like Drybear's car) which is laggy but it was safer for stock V6 engines and was aimed at make big power when you turn up the boost. DDP kit uses a 16G which is definitely a recipe for trouble with the V6. The T28 that rear bank turbo kit that IPP sells is even too small for SR20 guys to use on a 2.0L engine.

My best advice to you would be to go over to Club3G.com and read read read and then read again. At least if you go to a shop, you want to be smart and be able to see if the people that work on your car are going to mess something up or not. Also don't forget about the vendors like ourself that actually know these cars in and out which not only provide advice but can also procure just about any part you need for these vehicles for you.

[DOHCstunr]

for 22k...

built 6g74
custom manifold,
standalone w/ traction control and upgraded ignition,
water/alky injection, 3" charge pipes with a large front mount.
oversize valves and some cams that trade torque for hp
stock 3g 5 speed tranny w/ a lsd
evo brakes,
meagan dampers
polyurethane suspension
lightweight wheels, some wide meaty tires
3" mandrel bend exhaust with a big resonator and a straight through mufler.
turbo?
gt35
and still have plenty of money left for a full suspension , and dyno tune

[peanotation]

my total turbo cost is clost to 6-7K, thats with the turbo kit, guages, install, other related things and tune...but for 22K i rather do what milo said IMO

that's an absurd amount of money....until i noticed you had it installed by someone else

[milo111000]

milo111000 Posted: 05 Feb 2007 12:40 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow.. good luck with the project.. but my .02 on this would be, if you had 22k to burn. i would just invest on a turbo powered motor like a VR TT.. since you are runniing a v6. just upgrade to the TT.. that's just me.. sure enough the kits would roughly cost a little bit less than a VR TT.. but you already have a motor ready for boosting..

Is there an engine code for that engine? Im thats the engine found in the 3000GT, correct?

yup the 3000gt ones or the jdm VRs.. might need lots of work but if you would think about it, you'll pay about $1800 depending where you look for your engine, prolly another $1000 for labor. then let's say another $1000 miscellanous money..but heck!! you'll be mante jr.!!! hey stunr!!!! what 6g74!! can we get a lesson on this 74??

[4g63lover]

milo111000 Posted: 05 Feb 2007 12:40 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow.. good luck with the project.. but my .02 on this would be, if you had 22k to burn. i would just invest on a turbo powered motor like a VR TT.. since you are runniing a v6. just upgrade to the TT.. that's just me.. sure enough the kits would roughly cost a little bit less than a VR TT.. but you already have a motor ready for boosting..

Is there an engine code for that engine? Im thats the engine found in the 3000GT, correct?

the one in the 3000GT is 6G72TT

the one in the Galant VR-4 6A13TT

[4g63lover]

what 6g74!! can we get a lesson on this 74??[/

The 6G74 is a 3.5L V6 found in the Diamante.

[milo111000]

i think the 3kt would be 6a12tt or a 6a13tt.