i wanna turbo charge my galant, which is a 95 s. i don't wanna go through the trouble of swapping the head cause i don't have to money. i think i can get a stock eclipse turbo from someone. can i do this with out having to make internal mods to my motor? i know i need a turbo intake manifold, but i don't know what else?
turbo intake and exhaust manifolds from a 2g eclipse, u'll also need a 2g oilpan, turbo, turbo o2 housing, customize a downpipe, intercooler, bov, ic piping, gotta relocate ur battery if u want a setup like a 2g eclipse, if not, u'll need to get custom piping to add the intake filter, u'll also need a tb elbow
I am not wanting to come off like an asshole or anything, but if you can't afford to do the headswap; you might wanna consider not turboing. A turbo is an expensive, high maintainence, bitch of a modification. If you blow a motor, then you are out what you paid to mod it, plus the cash for a new motor.
You gain knowledge through learning not by increasing your post count...please search
you will utterly destroy your stock 2.4 liter with an upgrade like that.
if it was only that easy, they would offer it from the factory.
do NOT waste your time and money, unless broken engines and transmissions are appealing to you.
if you want a faster car, trade up to one. it will cost thousands upon thousands of dollars to get it to work at all, much less correctly and reliably.
What a bunch of bench racer idiots. Hey, if you have NO clue what you're talking about, then STFU. Geez. What is it about SO many people spreading SO much false information about turbo'ing a 4G64? Get a grip people... It can be done quite easily, cheaply ($2k-$3k depending on parts), very little maintenance, and does NOT destroy the stock engine.
manybrews: You had TOOOO many brews. STFU, because you're clueless.
acidburn2160: You do not need a turbo intake manifold. It won't fit on the stock SOHC head anyway. You need a turbo exhaust manifold. Follow the instructions I put on my site for the Spyder, and you'll be fine. The biggest things you need to watch are boost level and knock. If you don't spend on the $$$ on knock control, keep your boost LOW (7 psi or below), and WATCH your EGT's.
My website address is in my signature.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spyder4G64t)</div><div class='quotemain'>
manybrews: Â*You had TOOOO many brews. Â*STFU, because you're clueless.
</div>
chances are i know more about these cars sleeping than you ever will, so i suggest you pull your head outta your ass.
sure, turboing these cars is easy.. and stupid. you go ahead and continue to tell people how harmless it is, and ill continue to make money hand over fist replacing every part of the drivetrain on peoples cars after this easy modification.
you want a fast car? buy one engineered that way instead of hacking an aftermarket fix onto it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manybrews)</div><div class='quotemain'>chances are i know more about these cars sleeping than you ever will, Â*
</div>Galants in general... Perhaps. The 4G64. I don't think so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
sure, turboing these cars is easy.. and stupid. Â* you go ahead and continue to tell people how harmless it is, and ill continue to make money hand over fist replacing every part of the drivetrain on peoples cars after this easy modification.</div>
I guess the turbo put on my 4g64 *last* december doesn't prove a thing, hey? Drivetrain is fine. Engine is fine. Running 11psi daily, thankyouverymuch. Let's talk about *YOUR* expirence with turbo'ing a 4G64, shall we? Either you have never done it (real likely), or you weren't good enough to make it work. Either way, you're talking out of your ass.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>you want a fast car? Â*buy one engineered that way instead of hacking an aftermarket fix onto it.</div>If that's what these people wanted, they would have done it by now. Obviously, you're on the wrong message board. Go someplace where you are useful, if there is such a place. People are going to do this if you approve of it or not, so either help them to be as safe about it as possible, or STFU and leave.
Children....If you can't play nice, you're gonna have to be separated...
Manybrews knows his stuff, he's a Mitsu tech. However, his knowledge is probably more limited to keeping stuff nice and stock and reliable.
Curt (Spyder4g64t) is more into tuning, but has limited experience with high numbers of individual cars worked on.
If you have a 5 speed, turboing a Galant is easy. If you have an automatic, there's where you're going to run into problems since the tranny was simply not made for all that extra power. True, the 4g64 can be quite easily, cheaply, and dependably trubo'd for mild applications (under 10 psi or so). But, Manybrews is also right, if you have an auto, or plan on cranking the boost, you're gonna have problems. There, maybe that'll forstall anymore name calling and poo throwing. We're not a Honda board now...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spyder4G64t)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Galants in general... Perhaps. Â*The 4G64. Â*I don't think so.</div>
i dunno.. i think rebuilding several hundred in the last 10 years makes me a bit of an expert. as well as fixing every piece of every mitsu ever made. just my opinion, though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
I guess the turbo put on my 4g64 *last* december doesn't prove a thing, hey? Â*Drivetrain is fine. Â*Engine is fine. Â*Running 11psi daily, thankyouverymuch. Â*Let's talk about *YOUR* expirence with turbo'ing a 4G64, shall we? Â*Either you have never done it (real likely), or you weren't good enough to make it work. Â*Either way, you're talking out of your ass.
</div>
i have seen every 2 bit hack you can think of to make these cars faster. lots are laughable, some are dangerous, most are terrible. heres the simple facts. the engine is NOT designed for a turbo. hence the reason for the different crankshaft, rods, pistons, transaxle, and clutch. (none of the 20 series trannies are rated for more that 175 horsepower, but im sure you knew that).
any modification you do to it is ill advised from any standpoint.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If that's what these people wanted, they would have done it by now. Â*Obviously, you're on the wrong message board. Â*Go someplace where you are useful, if there is such a place. Â*People are going to do this if you approve of it or not, so either help them to be as safe about it as possible, or STFU and leave.</div>
DONT tell me what to do, brainiac. im offering the easiest, most cost effective and hands down most reliable opinion. if YOU dont like it, tough. Wether you like it or not, turbocharging a car that was not intended for it without the proper internal modifications is pretty foolish.
as i see you know, because of this quote on "your website"..
"Turbo charging or any other vehicle modifications can result in personal injury, severe engine damage, or vehicle damage if not done properly.
Please use this web page as a guide only. I do not and will not assume any responsibility for damage that may occur to you, your car, or anything else."
apparently you know the dangers in doing so, yet i didnt see you mention that in your previous post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manybrews)</div><div class='quotemain'>i have seen every 2 bit hack you can think of to make these cars faster. Â*lots are laughable, some are dangerous, most are terrible.</div> This happens with every car made on the road. If they are going to do it anyway, don't you think it's best to inform them as accurate as possible and make them LEARN what they need to do it right, rather than just blow them out of the water? Want to see hacks? Go over to the 3G Eclipse message board. MAN, what a bunch of idiots there are over there. I'd say 1 in 10 are intelligent - maybe that's a bit generous actually.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>heres the simple facts. Â* the engine is NOT designed for a turbo. Â*hence the reason for the different crankshaft, rods, pistons, transaxle, and clutch. (none of the 20 series trannies are rated for more that 175 horsepower, but im sure you knew that). Â*
any modification you do to it is ill advised from any standpoint.
</div> Block is nearly identical to the 4G63T block. In fact, I'd bet money it is cast from the same mold, and different machining is done to make it into either a 4G63T or 4G64. However, I obviously can't prove it. I'm still trying to get them side by side to see if the casting marks are identical. The rods are the same as a 2g Eclipse 4G63T rod - nothing different there. Pistons: been running between 7-11psi on mine daily for a year. They are just fine. In fact, a friend is having a metalurgical analysis done on the piston itself in comparison to the 2G Eclipse 4G63T piston, as well as measurments of ring lands, weight, top thickness. I'm betting it will come back as strong and durable as the 2G Eclipse 4G63t piston - in which case all you have to worry about is the higher compression ratio. The crank is only different for the extra 12mm stroke, and there is already people putting down over 500whp with the 4g64 crank - I think it can handle 250-300 just fine. Clutch... I'll give you that one. Mine stock cluch started slipping the minute the turbo was installed. However, any 4G63t Eclipse performance clutch works fine. Tranny... Well, personally the jury is still out on that one for me. I'll agree the slushboxes are made of glass, but should be able to handle a low boost level. My 5-speed seems to be holding up just fine, and I'm NOT nice to it.
Any more arguements I can debunk?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>apparently you know the dangers in doing so, yet i didnt see you mention that in your previous post.</div>
I did point them to my website... Didn't I? Of course there are dangers involved. Especially if you have NO clue what you're doing. My disclaimer is there to save my ass, not because I think the car can't be reliably turbo'ed. Anyone who asks my advice who obviously isn't ready to do the job gets blasted by me to learn more first. In this case, the original poster was only looking for information on if it could be done or not. It can, and it can be done safely.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kain)</div><div class='quotemain'>Children....If you can't play nice, you're gonna have to be separated...
Manybrews knows his stuff, he's a Mitsu tech. However, his knowledge is probably more limited to keeping stuff nice and stock and reliable. Â*
Curt (Spyder4g64t) is more into tuning, but has limited experience with high numbers of individual cars worked on. </div>
Thanks for the sanity check. I was also a auto tech for a number of years, however (no, not mitsu). My knowledge comes from a LOT of research over the past 2 years. First year was simply info gathering, and this last year has been with my own turbo 4G64.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
If you have a 5 speed, turboing a Galant is easy. If you have an automatic, there's where you're going to run into problems since the tranny was simply not made for all that extra power. True, the 4g64 can be quite easily, cheaply, and dependably trubo'd for mild applications (under 10 psi or so). But, Manybrews is also right, if you have an auto, or plan on cranking the boost, you're gonna have problems.</div> If manybrews would have mentioned anything about the auto tranny in his first post, I wouldn't have jumped. However, he point blank said "you will utterly destroy your stock 2.4 liter with an upgrade like that." The statement is misleading at best, outright lies at worst. I guess you judge where it falls. In any case, *that* statement is why I jumped on his case.
I'd say you are both right in some ways.
>>>Curt I agree 100% that the turbo will work on stock 4g64. Good example (a different mitsu motor though) is my friend's Mirage with a turbo running 8PSI daily for the past 3 years at least. With AT tranny. Why is his car still running? Because (correct me if I'm wrong) the fuel system is the most important part in turboe'd car. It is better to get more fuel than needed, you can't blow your motor by doing that.
A bad example is my other friends rabbit, he's on the 3rd motor right now. Why? Because he's running 13PSI DAILY with stock fuel system, nothing is gonna hold up if you don't do the turbo install corrctly.
>>>manybrews...you are right about the motor being built for NA application, but it doesn't mean it can't handle one. If you do it right, everything will be fine.
I guess it's way to early to tell if the turbo'ing a 4g64 is safe, It's been only one year for Curts car...hopefully it will run perfectly fine for many more years. One way to be sure is to do the research.
...and if it is that dangerous and all, there's always 4g63t that will fit perfectly in the car.
oh this is fun....
I'm going to back curt 100% here.
I've watched the evolution of the 4g64 from the very begining.
and I've seen every possible application constructed.
I, like curt have been soley invested in *4g64* performance for the past 5+ years. although There are some things about The '64 that say "I'm happy being NA" there are far more that SCREAM "I WANT FORCED INDUCTION!!"
I think the simplest, is the fact that mistu constructed the exhaust ports of the '64 to match *PERFECTLY* To the '63 exhaust manifold; but mysteriously made the intake side "not so close" to '63 specs.
the '64 retains the "bung" for the knock sensor.
the '64 uses the same rods as the '63 part # for part #
beefiest crank *evAr*
an Over-built, highly balanced bottom-end capable of revving safely to 7950 RPM (on-par with 4g63 limits)
the same things that make the '63 stong.. make The '64 as strong.
throw into it the 20% increase in displacement, and you really have one of the most under-rated 4-cylinder motor on the market?
and.. unfortunately, it's connected To the one of the weakest trannies out there =0/
however, I've been running 300Hp on my f5m31 for a year and a half now.
don't think For a second that working @ mitsu makes anyone the know-all saint of mitsu.. even After years.
I've never worked @ mitsu, and have Re-built 4 motors in the past year, as Well As walk people through The re-building of many more.
I constructed the first turbo kit for the 4g64 back in '98 and was the first to swap out a 4g64 for a 4g63. I helped curt with his build-up As far As I could, and some before that.
I know bores, strokes, deck-heights, allowable compressions, torque settings, gear ratios, flywheel Steps and Such of most of mitsu's current motors.
at the same time, I've brought my galant To an Established mitsu dealership (Boch mitsu(highest volume dealer in the north-east)) and have been told I have a neon motor in my car...or other stupid comments
that are complete bullshit.
you just CAN'T use the "I've Done this.. So I'm better."
how many 4g64's have *YOU* built beyond Factory Specs?
have you put nitrous kits, and gone with various jets? experimented with timing/fuel delivery? have you owned a Forced-induction 4g64?
I'm not bashing you, manybrews.. and I'm not attempting To be "brand-loyal" on curt's Side, but I *HAVE* seen how Curt has taken 4g64 performance further Than I ever had.. and has proven his theory/investigations With real-world performance.
I've not seen anything on your Part that allows you to say That something can, or can't be Done.
Sorry.
alright i know all the big things i need/want for my dohc head swap and turbo, but i really do not know the little things like:
Do we need to get the 02 sensor off the 1g or 2g exhaust mani(depending on which i get, probably 1g)?
What kind of head gasket should i get?
what is recommended to be done to a used block? honed?
whats a good rebuild kit for a 14b turbo?
When i swap the intake manifolds, will my old throttle body parts fit back on?
is a custom down pipe necassary or will the 2g downpipe fit?
i dunno i have a lot mroe but i dont have any parts right now
7g for life!
Do we need to get the 02 sensor off the 1g or 2g exhaust mani(depending on which i get, probably 1g)?
only difference I had between my 96 galant, and 2g o2 sensor Was wire length.. get the 2g, though.. (longer wires)
What kind of head gasket should i get?
Ralliart.. i think it's 2mm thicker, and multi-layer
what is recommended to be done to a used block? honed?
for a 7-bolt..replace rings, rod bearings, and rod bolts
hone, and take a second to wire-wheel The pistons clean of carbon build-up
whats a good rebuild kit for a 14b turbo?
announcer voice "dont' ttry this @ home"
send it out...you'll fuck it up (unless you can spin a turbo 45kRpm by hand?)
When i swap the intake manifolds, will my old throttle body parts fit back on?
yeah.. replae the gasket, though.
is a custom down pipe necassary or will the 2g downpipe fit?
do custom..and, while your @ it... get an evo exh manifold $190 un-ported From FP, and a Ported EVO o2 housing
and a 2.5" custom Downpipe... your neighbors will thank you when you start your galant early sundays for church
i dunno i have a lot mroe but i dont have any parts right now
that's not so much a question, is it?
alright, lets figure this out.
first, im NOT opposed to modification. ive modded piles of cars, including my own (now someone elses) 475 hp camaro. I have built 300 hp eclipses out of nothing more than stock pieces, and have built a couple 400 HP 3000gts. hell, im doing 14 grand worth of work to a customers stealth as we speak.
so it has nothing to do with that. heres my thoughts on it.
1st, the block is basically identical, no two ways about it. However, there are numerous other changes. the crank IS different in that its hardened. the rods ARE different in that they have piston cooling ports (which were previously mounted inside the block) machined in them. the pistons are different in both strength and size. the bearings are different, and non of this stuff is designed for a turbo. can you run it? sure. but why? why not use the engine designed for it, so you will get the proper engineering, the proper sizing, the proper drivability, and reliability, along with the fact that you get the DOHC head.
why force the little engine to endure temperatures that are 500 degrees hotter than intended, and forces that are 500 psi higher? It would be endlessly cheaper and easier in the case of Spyder just to buy the turbo.
any for anyone else here that really wants to mod your galant, go for it.
Im rather curious why someone would waste the time, though. Its a 4 door family commuter. if you wanted a fast car, why not buy it? You WILL have headaches when doing this type of modding to a car, garanteed. and the money will keep flowing out of your wallet, too.
Also, just to let everyone know.. the 20 series manuals are actually more prone to failure than the 20 series automatics (if based on percentage of failures per 100 cars). i would say that ive done about 50 percent more manuals than autos.
the trannies are troublesome enough under stock loads, much less raising the torque by 50 percent. Hell, the 30 series trannies have trouble with it, and theyre rated for it.
so my recommendation does not change.. if you want a fast car, the best choice (expecially for those with limited knowledge and limited resources) is buy a car thats already fast.
Why not buy a fast car stock? Where would be the fun in that? I chose the Galant partly because I wanted to mod it up. I dunno, it really makes you feel...well, more attached to your car. Because, than it's yours and no one else has one like it. You buy a Corvette, and there's 20,000 people who have the exact same car. You mod up a Galant, and you have the only one (unless you work with someone to make two that are identical...) See what I'm saying. One day I'll probably get really ambitious and buy myself an actual fast car that's 100% stock. But for now, I really enjoy finding parts for the Galant, installing them, seeing how it affects the handling, performance, looks and other fun stuff like that. Also, the stock output of the 4g64 is very sad. I'm one of those crazy people who likes to see what an engine is capable of and still be as streetable as it was in stock form. (Than again, you're talking to a guy with a 50+ hp lawnmower...) So, I guess it's a matter of seeing how far you can take the car before stuff starts to break. But, I don't know about what you're saying about some 5 speeds not being able to handle the extra power. I know there's some guys on the Colt boards that are pushing 300+ hp through the stock Mirage 5 speeds with few/no problems. I don't doubt that you fix a lot of them, but is it the transmission failing, or are people who don't know how to drive mangling them? I suspect it's far more of the latter than the former. But, that's really more speculation than fact, since I don't work at a mitsu dealership. But, I did use to work in a tranny shop and Many, many of the transmissions (mostly autos since we stayed mostly to American vans and SUV's) were destroyed due to driver error and/or neglect. Which is why we fixed them rather than the dealership. Just my final $0.02 on the issue.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kain)</div><div class='quotemain'> But, I did use to work in a tranny shop and Many, many of the transmissions (mostly autos since we stayed mostly to American vans and SUV's) were destroyed due to driver error and/or neglect. Which is why we fixed them rather than the dealership. Just my final $0.02 on the issue.</div>
oh hell yes, most are due to owner neglect, ESPECIALLY in the case of autos.
however, the manuals are a weird breed. when the 20 and 30 series first came out in big numbers (the 89 galants, the 90 eclipses), we literall did hundreds of the manuals for countless problems. mostly premature synchronizer wear, lots of bearing failures, and loads of differentials blowing up..
years later, the synchro issues are pretty much non-existant, but the bearings still are failing and the occasional diff flies apart, even on cars that are well maintained / not abused.
it certainly doesnt affect them all, but its strange... the ones with bearing wear are REALLY, REALLY worn... as though the bearings themselves are poorly manufactured. And the ones with differential failure just seem to break whenever they want to.
who knows.. im not an engineer. but i will say one thing. the combination of these smaller trannies and high horsepower often equates to a bucket of parts laying on the road.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manybrews)</div><div class='quotemain'>the rods ARE different in that they have piston cooling ports (which were previously mounted inside the block) machined in them.</div>
Do me a favor, will ya? Go ask your parts guy at your mitsu dealership what engine the MD193027 rods are in. Answer: Galant 4G64, Spyder 4G64, and 2g Turbo Eclipse 4G63T. Stop spreading misinformation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the pistons are different in both strength and size.</div> Size... Obviously. Strength? Where is your proof? Don't have any? Huh, what a suprise.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>can you run it? Â*sure. Â*but why? Â*why not use the engine designed for it, so you will get the proper engineering, the proper sizing, the proper drivability, and reliability, along with the fact that you get the DOHC head. Â*</div>
Ok... Me and about 100 other people here... all together now...
HOW BORING! Are you 75 years old? Just curious.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>why force the little engine to endure temperatures that are 500 degrees hotter than intended, and forces that are 500 psi higher? Â*It would be endlessly cheaper and easier in the case of Spyder just to buy the turbo.</div> Ever hear of something called insurance rates? Just how much cheaper will it be in the long run? I suppose you are all for modding the turbo spyder, but not the 4G64 spyder? What a joke.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>any for anyone else here that really wants to mod your galant, go for it. Â*Im rather curious why someone would waste the time, though. Â*Its a 4 door family commuter. Â*if you wanted a fast car, why not buy it? Â*You WILL have headaches when doing this type of modding to a car, garanteed. Â*and the money will keep flowing out of your wallet, too.
</div> Grandpa.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>so my recommendation does not change.. Â*if you want a fast car, the best choice (expecially for those with limited knowledge and limited resources) is buy a car thats already fast.</div> First intelligent thing you've said in this thread so far. True... If you don't have the knowledge or resources to do it right, you might as well get a car that can give you the performance you want out of the showroom. You'll be sorry otherwise, as you will likely damage something. However, with simple internet research and reading, I think most mechanically inclined people can grasp and do the conversion properly.
Hey now, enough of that. This is turning into a pissing match, and TGC is no place for that. You wanna quibble over part numbers, do it privately. I'm not a moderator, and I can't make anyone do anything, but please can we just do this like adults? It's one thing to have an intelegent discussion, and perhaps we can all even learn something in the process. But purposly irratating each other....well, that just ain't gonna fly. Just my $0.02 But it's starting to feel like Club SI 'round here...
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