Turbo Fuel questions. (got almost everything!)

[4g64terror]

Okay guys here is what I have as of today:

14B turbo (gonna buy a rebuild kit)
2nd gen SMIC
all second gen piping
1st gen J pipe
2nd gen oil return
etc. etc.

My point is that I have most of the hard parts. My situation is its time to decide on fueling. This is a budget build up. I want a daily driver thats more fun to drive. Gonna keep it low boost. (under 10lbs) I dont however want surging or a screwed up idle. I am keeping the Galant throttle body. SO whats the most cost effective fueling? Give me a parts list of what setups you have seen work or have on yours. This is the only thing stopping me right now.

[laxinwarrior]

For low boost you can go with 450cc DSM injectors and a rewired fuel pump.

[4g64terror]

yeah but with JUST 450cc injectors it wont idle properly right? wouldnt i need an AFC also?? this is the stuff i need to know..an exact list of the most cost effective way to do it.. so far:

450cc injectors and resistor box.

what else?

[laxinwarrior]

I apologize you are correct, it's been a long day. You will need some way to compensate for the injectors. IMO the best way to do this is with a GM MAFT Gen II, it might not be the cheapest way but it is definitely effective and reliable. It also has features the SAFC doesn't have like the ability to scale your injectors instead of having to tune across the board in order to compensate, if you get a wideband O2 sensor you can use the wideband tracking feature which is pretty clutch and you can also use the maft to datalog. You could try using an SAFC but I've heard nothing but problems about them on the galants.

[4g64terror]

well i was thinking of getting the Dynojet Wideband Commander for A/F logging and in car tuning (has a autometer analog guage)....that unit is pretty portable which is key for me consideirng I also have a 600HP mustang and a turbo gsx-r 1000 :) I figure I can use it for that part and maybe use the safc just for the adjustment part. What kind of problems have you heard about them? Also, Aeromotive rising rate regulator, yes or no?

[seth98esT]

What year is your Galant? IMHO if its a 7ga 94-95 I woul try to find a 95 Galant EPROM ECU and get with Jeff-o at DSMChips and have him see if he could make you a custom chip. He could adjust fuel maps, timing maps, dead time for injectors, add a stutterbox, remove fuel cut, pretty much anything you want.

I would stay far away from the SAFC, theres just too many better options available nowadays.

And if you are going to run low boost on a 14b, you shouldnt need more then 450cc injectors and a Walbro 190 or even stock/rewired pump.

[4g64terror]

ok now im confused...u keep saying to use the injectors but NOT use the SAFC? but u need the SAFC for it to idle..mine is a 95 galant with a 5 speed swap includeing the 5 speed ECU..also have the auto ECU...how do i know its eprom? if this guy tunes the ecu and the setup changes, THEN what?

[4g64terror]

also JUST running the injectors brings up the problem that yes they would be alright at full throttle, what about part throttle, boost situations? RPM drop situatuions?..when u said EPROM did you mean the eclipse EPROM, not the Galant?

[seth98esT]

No, in the 95 USDM 7g Galants, they had an EPROM ecu, just not a very well known fact.

With 450s, it would not be a huge jump from the stock injector dead time so I wouldnt expect much change in idle without correction. But under any boost the ECU will not really know what to do with the excess fuel so you would indeed run extremely rich without correction.

[4g64terror]

ok guys so talk to me about the GM maft then..my buddy has one on his grand national...are you guys running that round GM meter too? if so, in blow-through mode or what? where do you have it located? post some pics..

[4g64terror]

No, in the 95 USDM 7g Galants, they had an EPROM ecu, just not a very well known fact.

With 450s, it would not be a huge jump from the stock injector dead time so I wouldnt expect much change in idle without correction. But under any boost the ECU will not really know what to do with the excess fuel so you would indeed run extremely rich without correction.

oh so my stock ECU can be programmed huh? hmmm well is that the way to go or the GM maft? cost comparison

[4g64terror]

anyone else?

[laxinwarrior]

I have the GM MAFT and it has worked flawlessly for me so far but having your ECU chipped is definitely a lot less hassle and can be programmed exactly how you want it, so I think you have some research to do. If I had an EPROM in my 96, I definitely would have tried to get a chip for it.

[4g64terror]

so send me a link or put me in contact with this guy so i can check out the expenses...im interested in re-chipping it..

[4g64terror]

also the more and more that i research, it appears that most 7g guys are using:

SAFC II
450cc's
resistor pack
pump re-wire
255lph pump

I know the pro's of the MAFT..i want the cons or "problems " with using the SAFC. The only thing i dont understand about the AFC is that how does the fueling adjust itself? Example: you set the fueling at 5500 at -35% at WOT. What happens at half throttle? quarter throttle? does the fueling stay the same or does the MAF compensate enough for that stuff? TThe AFC route would be MUCH easier for me as I could retain the stock mass air, which I have two of, and the stock 2g pipeing that I aquired. Feedback please. Get some more turbo guys in here!

[seth98esT]

SAFC can tune at two points. Lo and High. You can set High throttle to 80% and above or whatever percecnt throttle you want. I think I had mine at 79%. It basically alters the airflow signal to the ECU so the ECU thinks it is getting a greater/lesser amount of air, then the ECU compensates more/less fuel. In my opinion, I would not run an SAFC, its old technology, its not the best route. You could go with Megasquirt, EPROM ECU, Greddy Emanage, or the GM Maf.

With the GM Maf, you need more then the actual GM Maf, you need a MAF translator to translate the GM Maf signal to something the ECU can read. If you want to spend a bit of money the Maft Pro is a great option. It has an auto tune feature that you can hook up to your wideband and it will auto tune to whatever A/F you tell it to. But I dont think the Maft Pro will do anything but fuel.

If I were you, I would want something that could do more then fuel, I would want to control timing as well. Megasquirt, Emanage, an Eprom chip from DSMChips, all could control timing along with fuel and much more. Dont limit yourself to the SAFC, its probably the worst fuel piggyback on the market nowadays.

If you swap to some 450cc injectors and do nothing for fuel control, it probably will idle ok, but anything under boost will run extremely rich and probably misfire due to the richness. Part throttle probably would be ok as long as you stayed out of boost.

[4g64terror]

okay so I have a 95...it seems like the easiest thing to do is run the EPROM ECU....so my car is a 95 with a 95 5speed ECU...i also have my 95 Auto ECU....I could send either one....i guess i need to contact them and have them answer questions...i want to be informed about situations such as if i wanna raise the boost a little, or what if i upgrade the exhaust, etc...who on here has the EPROM upgrade? Someone send me a link. I wanna know a price.

[seth98esT]

I have their Eprom upgrade in my 2g ECU and I love it. Email him first to make sure he can do it, I know John was talking with him and might have sent him his 95 Galant ECU for testing. Double check and see if one of your ECUs is Eprom, I bet both are, and they should both be pretty identical regardless of Auto or 5spd. My chip was $130 I believe and $15 for each additional chip in the future if you change your mods or want to add something new to the chip.

Basically he will add a new fuel map, timing map, and a few other things to the chip. You just need to tell him what injectors you are running and your basic setup. Adding exhaust or any other mods wouldnt affect the tune as the ECU will still be running off the stock MAF so it will still be able to add more fuel if it sees more airflow and whatnots.

[DOHCstunr]

i run 720cc injectors with absolutely zero idle issues, adn zero out of boost issues.
the reason larger injectors run crappy on stock maps is because they let out more fuel when opened for the same amount of time(pulsewidth/deadtime)
your factory ecu has the proper calibration for yoru stock injuectors dialed into it. with a chip he can modify it so that your larger injectors open the appropriate length of time to maintain the same results.
so with a chip, any size injector from 50cc to 1500cc can run like stock without any difference in mileage, drivabilty, or a/f ratio.

if you can get jeff to chip yoru ecu for whatever size injectors you want, you won't have to tune, so long as he can change the wot target a/f ratio's to a more boost friendly level, as opposed to the n/a 14.7:1

[4g64terror]

Ok so what youre saying is you guys are suggesting an EPROM but no ones actually had a Galant ecu altered this way for a turbo yet??? Um ok. Guess ill contact the guy but in lieu of that the AFC STILL looks like the most economical way to go...I wanna know guys EXACT setups..PM some other turbo owners..i wanna hear form everyone