VR-4 Twin Turbo conversion

[Modified]

Nice motor swap. I would love to have that motor in my 8G.

[Goku]

They didn't have the 7G VR-4 in australia, so your source would be wrong there. the 6A12 they will be playing with is the FTO, which isn't the same as the VR-4, well not identical anyway.

There must be something you're doing to cause all the problems you're seeing with this motor, I have never had even half the problems you're talking about. What oils are you running?, what plugs? how much boost ? How hard do you drive it ? It can also be caused by the air temp and humidity of where you live...

As for forged internals, yes we can get them and most parts for the 6A13TT will bolt straight up to the 6A12TT.

I hear Evo's everyday, I used to work for mitsubishi, and the fact is they all sound the same, same pitch, same pathetic droll no matter what exhaust you're running on them.
Stock for stock the VR-4 sounds better, full 3" back the V6 sounds better.

Tha main reason there are so many parts available for the 4G63 is that it was released in the states, where as the 6A was not. However, there are also a lot of parts available for the 6G in the GTO (3000GT) which is also capable of making huge power.

Have you ever stopped to think though, the ease of making the 4G go that fast has a downside, like huge turbo lag and crappy city driving ?

And try looking to Japan for parts for the VR-4, I think you'll be suprised what you can find.

[kolio]

i can buy a front clip and whole rear end of a 7G vr-4 for 2k

rpw in australia has cams and internals for the 6a motors.

the 63's have there own set of problems. it's funny how you have all these problems when alot of our other members don't. Goku himself is pushing about 315hp.

anyway props to the OP for doing the swap.

[hk20000]

315 is fine I bet I'm pushing at least that much now at 1.1bar just nothing over 380HP. No amount of fuel delivery, injector or tuning will save you on that one. 6A12 has pinky finger conrods. 'nuff said. It's not knock failure or anything, the conrods simply rip themselves into 2 pieces when pushed over 380HP.

6A13 parts wouldn't go into a 6A12 are you high on something? No, the Aussies imported a bunch of 7G VR4 and they have been trying to be creative. No it didn't work out. They ended up going for 4G63. It's only in places where engine swaps are illegal (as in changing to a different series engine) would a 6A12 make any stinking sense.

Aussies did try their hands on "single turbo" converting the 6A12 to push one larger turbo to get all the clutter out of the engine bay and push bigger power than what would have been possible with the stupidly hot back side of an engine:

the intake has to be custom made to come in the other way to avoid the hot turbo....Because 2 TD04 installed into the OE positions would be waaaaay tooo hot and waay too hard to service at any rate. The new manifold also eliminates the need to open up the manifold to get to anything in the back side - for heaven's sake.

Look at the dimensions of the 6A12 vs 6A13 first,
6A12 78.4mm x 69.0mm - characteristics: high revs not as torquey as it could have been (versus something like a 78mm stroke)
6A13 81.0mm x 80.8mm - squared bore x stroke gives a more balanced engine.
and you say I can bolt 6A13 internals to a 6A12.... reeeeallly?

http://www.atomicspeedware.com/rodmitpaut.htm
conrods are available BUT they are 1.5x more expensive than the ones on a 4G63 (coz there are 1.5 times the rods I guess?) - again for no reason at all.

As for low end torque - stock for stock the 4G63 wouldn't even lose the battle with the 6A12, any rev on the gauge. The EVO Cyclone 2 stage intake takes care of all that. Also the 4G63 is actually a LARGER engine than the 6A12 making its low end power production almost unbelievably well sorted. It drives like a 2.0T Audi. Like seriously.

the only dream swap if money is no object, is to bolt the FTO MIVEC engine head onto the 6A12TT on the VR4, manage that with MoTEC and you'd have a throughly 2008 technology V6 twin turbo w/ MIVEC - JUST LIKE EVO9!.....maybe THEN you have some reason for all the trouble.

[Goku]

^^ thats a New Zealand car bro, infact it's in the same city I am and yes, that was a pretty poor job of doing a single turbo conversion using a TD05, not a TD04.

Austrailia never imported the 7g VR-4 ever, they only just recently got the 8G vr-4.

People over here run twin TD04's on them all the time, without changing the intake manifold. You really haven't found much of any stable arguments my friend.

I never said the internals would go in, other parts from the 6A13 go on to the 6A12, I guess I didn't make that clear enough.

As for the mivec to a 6A12TT, it's been done before, as has the mivec to 6A13TT.

Plus there are is a guy running twin TD05's on the 6A13TT in Russia with stock internals at about 450hp atw, Jun made a VR-4 race car pushing 550HP at the wheels with twin TD05's and forged internals.

[Dennis7GV6]

Hmmm big discussion going on here..

First of all the reason i have chosen for the 6A12TT, is just simply the fact that i had a
6A12 n/t.. I knew there was a VR-4 version, and i just wanted it... The easiest to upgrade
my car... I never heard of any troubles with the engine at all, maybe i 'm going to find out now.. All I know is that the engine has run 110000 km and it's running fine, no starnge noises or what so ever.. And i just like the V6, the sound, the way it's runs...

Changing the sparkplugs is a bit of work, that's right, but I did it for the second time now, and if you know what has to come off and what doesn't it's not that bad and easily done in two hours. And with the irridium sparkplugs it's runs fine for another 90000 km's.

The wiring harnes is a luxury problem of myself...

I could have just taken the VR-4 harness but i didn't because i was not using big parts of it, like the 4WS, ECS.

And... my car had airbags and cruise control, and just really wanted to keep the whole package.
So to make it nicely and without heaps of unused cable, i cut half out of it, and put two harnesses together.

And i'm happy with 240 Hp now... ;)

[mysticj]

I never seen this version of the "world spec" 7g front bumper before, is it aftermarket?

hk20000, if you having issues with your 6a12, have you ever thought of swapping a 6g73 or 6g72 if the 4g63t doesn't work out.

Dennis: nice swap!

[Goku]

That's a stock JDM bumper hacked up to fit the big ass intercooler in there.

[mysticj]

That's a stock JDM bumper hacked up to fit the big ass intercooler in there.

Nice, I wish they will make an aftermarket front bumper[JDM VR4] for our cars.

[fuel]

hk20000 my god you spout out some shit.

How is a 4G63 larger than a 6A12? You mis-quoted the cc ratings of both engines.. if you don't even know what cc each engine is, how are we to know you actually know what you're talking about?

4G63 is 1997cc... 6A12 is 1998cc (exactly 333cc per cylinder). By your theory that would make the 6A12 larger. Hah.

When the 7G VR-4 came out, it wasn't to replace the rally-inspired outgoing E39A Galant VR-4 (that was the Lancer Evo's job). Instead the 7G went in the direction of a luxury tourer rather than an all out performance car.

Yes I can agree the 6A series engine does have its weak points (the rods being one of them, and I've had first hand experience with the devastation of them letting go), but with simple basic mods (larger exhaust, better cold air induction + intercooler) and higher boost they can be pushed down the 1/4 mile (in a heavy E84A none the less) in mid 12 second times. There was one guy here in NZ who consistently posted up mid-12s in the three E84A VR-4s he had owned. If anything the weak spot (in his case) was the rear diff mounts which would always let go after abuse.

There is NO WAY you can get a 4G63 to sound as hot as a 6A12. Maybe you shouldn't be so stupid. A 6 cylinder engine is always going to be more smoother than a 4 cylinder despite how many balance shafts you put in there. You have 6 cylinders firing more closer together than a 4 cyl engine over the 360deg rotation of a full engine revolution. Simple as that.

Also, the Lancer Evolution didn't have the two-stage cyclone manifold. It never did and it never will. That was the E39A Galant VR-4 manifold, on the large port head. Mitsubishi realised it was a stupid idea (just like Toyota did with their TVIS which is essentially the same), and did away with it on the Lancer Evo onwards, which is why the Evo 4G63 heads have smaller ports, to aid mid-range turbulence and promote combustion chamber swirl.

The only reason the 6A12 turbo doesn't have much support compared to the 4G63 is because the 6A12 turbo was only in one car, while the 4G63 turbo made it's debut in 1980 and was finally dropped in 2007, and was found in a dozen of Mitsubishi's line-up over the years.