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Reply With QuoteFantastic.
Thank you. I greatly appreciate everyone's help and I'm happy to document my progress here in return. I'm not taking many pictures of the wiring but I've got plenty of photos of everything else.
In case you can't tell what the picture below is that hole is where the rear subframe bolt slips through. Cutting the caps that hold the bolts in place was all sorts of fun.
There's all the Galant suspension bits that I'll be replacing with the DSM parts as well as a rather banged up gas tank.
That bolt hole on the left of the rail is where the new subframe bolts should drop through.
Last edited by eclipsh; 03-02-2009 at 09:18 AM
Fantastic.
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1994 Galant GS-Turbo
Nice work so far!!!!
Car is sold, no more G.... Moved on to something a big more sporty.... lol
If you pull this off its gonna be so fucking sweet! I think ive seen a couple of guys try their hands at this and gave up somewhere down the line.. Im ready to see this in action! I want to do the swap myself but im not sure im ready to cut shit and make room for exhaust and driveshafts.............. Good work so far bro.
Oh I'll pull it off. At this point I don't really have an option if I want a car to drive! I spent yesterday pulling the engine and transmission out of the 95 Talon I'm using as a donor. I didn't realize how much more of a pain in the ass the 2g DSMs are to work on compared to my old 1g. What used to take half a day never seemed to end. The A/C pump was particularly annoying.
Regardless, I have the rear subframe of the Talon lying on the ground with the drive shaft still bolted up. I should have done that the other way around but it did help keep the subframe from rotating on the jack as I lowered it. I'll get the shaft unbolted and drag the subframe out this morning. Then I'll drop the rest of the drive shaft and e-brake cables. Rather than pulling apart the rear drums to get the e-brake cables out I opted to just pull the cables. It is only a handful of bolts and I needed to pull both center consoles. Seemed like a no brainer to me.
If all goes well I'll have the parts I need from the Talon off by noon today then I'll be bolting the Galant rear subframe and front suspension back into the Talon so it can be rolled around or eventually turned into a FWD car and sold.
The really interesting part will be trying to figure out how I'll route the exhaust. I don't want to cut up the tunnel of the Galant as I'm not skilled enough with fabrication to mess with it. The best solutions I can figure out each have their own drawbacks.
My first thought was to run dual 2" or 2.25" exhaust after the flex section. There is more space at the front of the tunnel than the rear so I can probably squeeze the y in up there and then run the pipes as close to the drive shaft as is safe. I won't know how practical this will be until the shaft is in the Galant. If I go with dual 2" it will flow less than the single 3" but if I go 2.25" it will flow more than the 3". Of course at that point I am not saving much space either.
My other thought is running rectangular exhaust piping. It could run under the floor boards and be low profile enough that I won't rip it out on the first speed bump or getting out of my garage. Unfortunately rectangular pipe flows very poorly compared to round so I'd have to go pretty big to make this work. That also becomes self defeating at some point.
The last option is to just run the 3" exhaust that was on my Talon when I bought it and hang the thing as high as I possibly can. I don't really like this as ground clearance does matter here.
In any case I'll see what I've got to work with in the next day or two as the AWD parts start making their way into the Galant.
thr drive shaft and exhaust have always stumped me.
i don't know if you could do it, but kind of bang a notch into the side of the tunnel to fit the exhaust snugly in there. otherwise just run it hanging down a little.
good luck and keep up the work.
also where are you located?
"DSM's, making people mechanics since 1985"
Originally Posted by polishmafia
it won't be any different than on the 2g.
the driveshaft doesnt' go perfectly in the middle of the exhaust tunnel,
its offset to the passenger side, and the exhaust is offset to the driverside.
with the heatshields out, there should be plenty of room.
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1994 Galant GS-Turbo
Thanks for the input. If I can squeeze the 3" Apexi exhaust I've got in there I will.
It is now 12:30 and I'm taking a break. I have all the parts I need out of the Talon now save the rear subframe bolts. I plan on leaving those and just buying some high grade bolts at the hardware store. I'm not too worried about the bolts sticking up a bit in the trunk and it'll save a lot of hassle.
I'm in southwest Colorado btw. The snow we get is a big reason for why I'm going to the trouble of sticking with AWD. That and it is just way more fun than FWD ;)
Run stock exhaust and an o2 dump or run an electric cutout before the cat along with a 2.25" cat back.
7g for life!
So my "no brainer" with the e-brake cables could have used more brains. Turns out they are different enough to not be interchangeable. I'll be swapping those out today.
My dad helped me bring my Talon parts back from his place yesterday (I used his barn for stripping it down). He and I were looking at the mounting points for the drive shaft last night. Unfortunately the center hangar that 2g FWD DSMs have isn't in our car. I'd hoped to just drop some bolts through the body into said nonexistent bracket. Now I'm thinking I'll either eliminate the front joint all together by making a two piece shaft or I'll mock up the tunnel using cardboard to see if the AWD mounting point will fit. It looks like it might but I'd rather leave the DSM shell as intact as possible.
As for the rear mount we are thinking about fabricating a steel piece that will incorporate the FWD gas tank bolts as part of the mounts. We'll basically use a piece of L and box steel welded together with the L wrapping up around the unibody were it punches up for the back seats. It should be wide enough to spread the torque across the body as well as, or better than, the factory mounting point. We'll bolt it in place at the FWD gas tank studs and weld the L to the unibody. I'll get the engine/tranny and rear end into the car first so I can string a line for the driveshaft and determine the exact alignment of the mounts.
Oh... one little perk of going with a 2 piece shaft would be more space for the exhaust :) Thanks for your suggestion Seth but that won't be an option for two reasons. One is that I don't have a stock turbo exhaust to use, the Talon came with the 3" exhaust I have. The other is that I always want to have full power available to me when I want it but without deafening anyone with a cutout. I'll know more about the exhaust once I have the driveshaft sorted out.
For the carrier bearing, you have to drill out the spod welds on the 2g bracket, then re-weld it to your 7g. What I would do is use either the front or rear 2g shaft in order to get the carrier bracket in the right spot, weld it up, then either extend the other half of the driveshaft or get it custom made.
As for the rear end, Im not sure what you are talking about. The entire rear 2g subframe should bolt up. You have to cut two holes in the floor of the 7g to take out the stock subframe bolts and use the longer 2g awd subframe bolts.
Have you looked through this?
http://www.automotivearticles.com/AWD_Conversion.shtml
7g for life!
Seth I think you got a little mixed up. My entire last post was about the drive shaft. The subframe will work out just fine. It turns out that the FWD subframe bolts are just the right length when dropped through the front hole for the AWD subframe. I'll just spot weld them into place from the bottom so they don't spin when I torque down the nuts. I'm going to buy some 7" long bolts for the rear mounting point of the subframe so I don't have to cut up the Talon. I think the shell should be worth more if it hasn't been cut up.
I have read your link several times and in fact have a picture from it linked in my post just above this :) Thanks for looking out for me though.
I still plan on fabricating my own rear mount and I'll figure out the rest of the drive shaft after that. Today was spent checking the fit of the AWD subframe in the Galant, with my happy discovery that the FWD bolts will work, and cutting out the two rear gas tank mounts as they interfere with the AWD subframe. I also got the FWD components bolted to the Talon so I could get it rolling and moved it out of my parent's barn and got the Galant e-brake cables off the FWD subframe. The clips to hold them into the rear drums are different but should be fine. The Talon uses holding clips on the outside while the Galant uses clips on the inside. Oh, another side note is that the rear brake fluid lines are different as well so they have to be swapped over with the AWD rear end.
So, youre saying that Galant's rear subframe bolts are long enough to accommodate the AWD subframe? How about the front - is there any problem with the Galants front subframe and the AWD tranny and transfer case?
OK, I'm making this too confusing. Time for a diagram ;)
I meant that the subframe bolts which get pulled from "A" are the right length to drop through "C". The rear bolts, "A", need to be about 6.5-7" long. As the front most holes at C don't have the extra bracing and sleeve for the bolt the head rests right on the frame. That means the 4" bolt that was in A sticks down far enough to work when used at C (the AWD subframe needs at least 3" of bolt sticking out to work).
The front subframe looks like it should be fine. Thankfully I don't think they made more than one type.
Incidentally, the FWD subframe's front bolt at "B" interferes with the AWD subframe and has to be cut off or removed. I decided to just cut the floor and pop them out to avoid having a loose bolt rattling around forever. If someone wanted to they could probably drill another hole through the AWD subframe and run another long bolt down through. However the area that it hits is right where the AWD subframe starts to bend down towards the front bolt hole so the nut wouldn't have a flat place to sit. It'd be easy enough to cut a piece of pipe at the correct angle and weld it onto the frame though for that extra support. I may end up doing this since the front bolt is just sitting on the frame.
Last edited by eclipsh; 03-05-2009 at 06:39 AM
OK i have a question about this subject. Its not directly linked but its on the same page. Are you going to put a vr4 in or are you going to use a 4g63? Also would this aplication work with our 4g64 sohc? i mean would the awd trans match up? if so how much rewiring would it be?
*Edit* Btw we should make this a sticky. Very useful info!!!!!!
I'll be going with the 4G63T. Why bother with anything else? ;)
The bell housing of the transmission will bolt up to the '64 just fine if you wanted to go that route. You'd have an underpowered AWD slug of a car but it'd work. Picture a base model Impreza. You'd also avoid all the nasty wiring muck that I'm having to dig through, though by writing up my stuff it'll save you 98% of the headache.
Once everything is up and running and I can scrape some cash together I'll be using the '64 block, or the crank in my 2.0, to build myself a turbo 2.4 or 2.3 with forged pistons and rods and the DOHC head.
- Nick, 94 Galant ES - 4G64 DOHC Turbo AWD, E3-16G & Manifold, 780cc inj, fmic, DS-MAP Speed Density
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." - Charles Darwin
Damn Nick, that's an awesome project. I signed on to the forum just so I could watch the build. I always thought it would be great to create a DSM equipped 7G VR4.
Do you plan on sourcing the body panels once the engine and drive train are complete?
All that work is inspiring me to get busy making the Colt AWD.
Michael
Thanks Michael! It was actually our conversations about AWD Colts that got me looking for an AWD sedan conversion project and eventually led to this. I'm glad you're getting to check out the build and I hope you get your Colt conversion done soon!
Incidentally the only car related thing I did today was get the grade 8 bolts for point "A" on the rear subframe. I found 1/2" by 7" with a steep thread pitch was as close as I could come but it'll work just fine. I also bought some 6" long bolts just in case the 7's are too long. Otherwise today was spent cleaning house and making eggplant parmesan. It was a much needed break from the car. I'll get back to bolting in the rear end, manual transmission components and the engine tomorrow. I still need to wrap up the wiring too. After this weekend the project will be on hold for a week while I'm doing some Special High Intensity Training for work up in Denver. I'll be sure to take pictures as the parts go into the Galant.
- Nick, 94 Galant ES - 4G64 DOHC Turbo AWD, E3-16G & Manifold, 780cc inj, fmic, DS-MAP Speed Density
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." - Charles Darwin
7G's are DSM's why people don't realize is beyond me. it says DSM on his engine bay tag.
but i like the info coming in. keep it coming!!!
"DSM's, making people mechanics since 1985"
With all the people out building 7Gs, you'd think everyone would know they are DSMs.
I've now been enlightened. :smt023
Back to the show... keep the updates coming.
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1997 Mitsubishi Galant DE
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